PC gaming: I hate it.
Here I was hoping to get a good samurai/Diabloesque fix this lazy Saturday morning by starting Throne of Darkness. But I can't even get the installer to run. My CD-ROM drive recognizes the CD--the icon appears and the splash screen comes up. But when I click on the "Install ToD" button--nuthin'. CD-ROM drive spins interminably.

Ya know, I am really getting sick of shit like this. Does anyone know what the problem might be? Is it yet another copy-protection problem? I haven't experienced this with any of the other games I've installed in the last few weeks, so I know it's not the drive itself.

In the meantime: I'm gonna go start Advance Wars on the GBA. At least I know the fuckin' thing will run.

SHEESH!!!!!!!

Jeff

Good one, Jeff, but have you heard the one about Pool of Radiance?

I did manage to get Throne running. It seems all right, but whether there's any depth to it doesn't come across in the first few hours. Having to control multiple characters at the same time seems like a chore to me, but then I haven't quite figured out the whole "play-calling" thing.

I need to run out and buy Advance Wars, myself.

I've got the same problem with Throne, Jeff. Please let me know if you find a workaround before Monday. [email protected]

Pool of Radiance installed fine for me, though I've heard the complaints and the things the installer is apparently doing make me nervous. When I play Pool of Radiance, I kind of wish it hadn't installed at all I must confess. (That's just a first impression, mind.)

Sadly my copy of Advance Wars hasn't arrive yet.

-Andrew

Advance Wars is very great. However, the GBA's reflective screen makes it like advance wars is being projected onto your face, and then you have to play it by staring at yourself in the mirror part of a little makeup case. In a dark room. And in my example, Advance Wars has all its text printed backwards so that you can still read it in a mirror, and the entire episode took place in a world where men wear mascara. The point is, the visuals for all GBA games are half whatever the game's about and half your own head. The other point is that Advance Wars is worth the hassle.

I'd like some of what Erik is smoking this morning. Or maybe I'd just like to share his makeup kit and talk about fabrics.

Just read about Pool of Radiance over at Evil Avatar. Jeebus.

No luck on ToD so far, Bub. :(

Sounds like copy protection stuff to me. I had to ditch my CD burner because half my games wouldn't play or install. I put in some crappy generic CD drive and now everything works. Kind of annoying.

I wish Sierra would send me the games early. I get them a week or two after they're out at retail. They don't do me much good then.

Er, sorry if that sounds spoiled of me.

The copy protection shouldn't affect an installer as it doesn't verify the CD to install the game. The protection is usually initiated whenever the game launches--that pause where the logo is usually splashed on the screen.

Unless Sierra did something weird.

Or it could just be a batch of bogus CDs. No matter what we do, some of our cover CD-ROMs are unreadable in some manufacturer's CD-ROM drives. And we don't have a copy protected CD.

"I'd like some of what Erik is smoking this morning."

My original response was going to be, "You mean dick?!?" because that would have been a heck of a zinger on you. Lucky for you, right before I hit the post button, I began to suspect that it might also be kind of a zinger on me. So you've got yourself a brief reprieve while I run the numbers on that one.

The press copy I have of Throne of Darkness came with a hand-written note that the Autostart crashes. I installed it directly from the setup file on the CD and haven't had any problems.

Hell, I don't use Autostart anyway. Autostart is for nancy boys.

-Tom

"I haven't quite figured out the whole "play-calling" thing."

Greg,

To take advantage of the game's tactical-ness, you pretty much have to use the formation and role editor to set things up. Then you use the "F" key to shift facing as you explore.

Of course, what you think of this whole shebang is a whole other can of worms, but that's pretty much how it works.

-Tom

"Autostart is for nancy boys."

Well, yeah, but Erik and I had already established where we were coming from on that, smarty pants.

"My original response was going to be, "You mean dick?!?" because that would have been a heck of a zinger on you. Lucky for you, right before I hit the post button, I began to suspect that it might also be kind of a zinger on me. So you've got yourself a brief reprieve while I run the numbers on that one. "

oh, quit with the posturing. You're gay. Bruce Geryk is gay. I'm gay. We're all gay! Let's get over it already.

err, maybe I'll stop posting now.

I am definitely not gay...


...for anyone but Tom Chick.*


* Not really, unless there's a lot of money involved.

Stop the presses! Tom Chick was RIGHT!

Just bypass the fuckin' autorun stuff. Use the explorer to open the CD and just run Setup directly--no problems. Thanks, Tom.

Jeff Green
The Guy Who Told Everyone Majestic Would Be Cool

Yeah, I got ToD from Sierra last week, thought an RPG set in a Samarai/Ronin world would be a nice change from the same old-same old; figured out the Autostart problem; then realized this just isn't a whole lotta fun. At least for the first couple of hours of play.

When did the initials RPG officially turn into RTS? I'd like an RPG that just lets me focus on the RPG, and not an RTS with some facade of a story. Bah.

Ok Jeff, the only RTS RPG games I can think of (aside from this one) are from BioWare and Black Isle, and all of them have much more then a "facade" of a story. In fact, two of them are likely in my top five RPG stories ever, category.+

Unless you think Diablo is an RTS, but that's as much an RTS as it is an RPG, which is to say it really isn't either.

Out: Wizards & Warriors, Pool of Radiance, Arcanum.

Coming: Wizardry 8 and Morrowind.

All non-RTS RPGs for you. And that's ignoring the MMORPGs.

-Andrew

Bah, to you Andrew, humbug. I'm in the mood to grouse. ;) Don't go feeding me data, nor logic.

"oh, quit with the posturing. You're gay. Bruce Geryk is gay. I'm gay. We're all gay! Let's get over it already."

There should be some kind of option to go back to the ancient times on Q23 before some weird thing happened to make "Bruce Geryk is gay" a kind of generic Q23 motto.

Don't load Advance Wars if you want to finish Samurai Diablo Empires, Jeffy. It's "hella better," as Scooter would say.

Heh - well, I have a gazillion games that I never have the time I like to play, but I'm a huge fan of that period of Japanese history, so I was hoping (even though I could tell at E3 that it wasn't the cat's meow.) And I just yanked open Operation Flashpoint... Plus, I'm wasting some time looking at a couple of remote calendaring Palm sites. ;)

"There should be some kind of option to go back to the ancient times on Q23 before some weird thing happened to make "Bruce Geryk is gay" a kind of generic Q23 motto."

There is, but it's not available for gay people. Sorry.

At the next E3 you're going to have to quit brain doctoring long enough to show up with a booth babe on each arm to dispell the rumors we've now spun.

What I really want to know is when is Bruce going to have his "Coming Out" party ?

Please send me a ticket !

I'm thinking we should all be wearing "Bruce Geryk Is Gay" t-shirts at the next E3.

Maybe with the Q23 logo on the back.

That would be hilarious! As long as Bruce okays it, of course. Like John Malkovich in Being John Malkovich.

C'mon Geryk, you're at least as cool as that guy.

"At the next E3 you're going to have to quit brain doctoring long enough to show up with a booth babe on each arm to dispell the rumors we've now spun."

Anything to dodge those old rumors about you and Chick, eh Mark? ;>

-Andrew

Who said they were rumors? Like Jeff said, we're all gay!

Actually, I don't know if anyone really thought that. It's just that one editor thought I was living with Tom. He may have thought we were just roomies or something. Still, it was pretty funny.

The whole "Geryk is gay" thing is from OMM. It was a gag headline when Erik -- who is notorious for flinging baseless accusations of homosexuality to great comic effect -- was rebutting one of Geryk's articles.

Also, I would just like to go on record here as saying that when we point out that Bruce Geryk is gay, we in no way mean any disrespect to our homosexual audience. We'd like to think of Quarter to Three as a gay-friendly gaming site.

-Tom

"The whole "Geryk is gay" thing is from OMM."

No Tom, actually it was the headline here on the Quarter to Three news page (spotlighting Erik's rebuttal). I don't recall ever seeing it at OMM (as you know, I check that site like a man looking for change at a public phone coin return).

-Andrew

'We'd like to think of Quarter to Three as a gay-friendly gaming site.'

Because, again, we're all fruity as Tom Hall.

"No Tom, actually it was the headline here on the Quarter to Three news page (spotlighting Erik's rebuttal)."

Which is exactly what I was saying. We were making a joke about Erik's propensity to accuse people of being gay over at OMM. It's really not that complicated a joke.

Speaking of gay, how about that Throne of Darkness?

-Tom

"Speaking of gay..."

not that there's anything wrong with that...

"Throne of Darkness?"

...on the other hand, there's not much right with that...

Tom: "Which is exactly what I was saying. We were making a joke about Erik's propensity to accuse people of being gay over at OMM. It's really not that complicated a joke."

Ah, yes, of course, I ah... I failed my "Reading For Comprehension" saving throw. I'm at minus 5 post-midnight.

Anyway, back to the thread topic, I got my copy of "Throne of Darkness" working now (thanks Tom), so with that and Pool of Radiance on deck I'm just in gaming heaven now.

-Andrew

Play Rails Across America instead. I've had more fun with Rails so far than just about anything else I've played this year outside of Kohan and Starships Unlimited.

I looked at the box for Throne of Darkness this weekend. Even that is unappealing. Anyone else notice they dropped all that "From the makers of Diablo!" stuff? Maybe we have some pull after all?

Or maybe someone at Sierra noticed how lousy the game was and decided not to soil Diablo's name on this game?

--Dave

Ditto on Rails Across America. It really caught my eye at E3 and it's living up to my expectations very nicely.

-Tom

dunno why u guys were so hyped about ToD ? maybe its a cultural thing. when i saw the previews i thought it sucks, when i played the demo i know it sucks... a. its so diablo, enough said, b. nothing reminds me of japan/samurai... hmm maybe im physically closer to japan and got a lot more influences from them...

i would rather go back to b.net and go shopping for new items with my friends...

"Autostart is for nancy boys."

We prefer the term sissy-maries

Thank you.

"Just bypass the fuckin' autorun stuff. Use the explorer to open the CD and just run Setup directly--no problems. Thanks, Tom."

See how much you want to thank him after you've played it a bit. You may have been better off when you couldn't install the damn thing... ;)

re: Throne of Darkness

There was a demo, and it did suck.

Why's everyone acting all surprised that the game sucks? :)

"Why's everyone acting all surprised that the game sucks? :)"

Hope springs eternal.

Even though it looked pretty average at E3, I was just hoping for an RPG that was a little different wrt setting.

Well, I happen to LIKE the game... in fact, a LOT. Heck, I'll go further and say that I like it just a touch more than D2.

There's a couple of issues though...

1. The hotkey system for spells is bad. It doesn't indicate what spells are on what hotkey. Also the hotkeys are global and not linked to each character, which is frustrating.

2. The spell system again... for some odd reason, you can only select offensive spells for a tactic. I rely heavily on turning on the passive resistance spell for whatever attack type I'm currently facing, and switching to the damage buff that hurts 'em the worst. The ninja casts the best de-buffs on monsters, but there's no way to get him to intelligently cast it once at the beginning of combat, without jumping to control him and using one of the global hotkeys to select that spell.

Basically, I spend entirely too much of my time pausing between fights to reorganize the spells on each guy.

PROS:

1. I really like the ability to swap your guys in and out for healing, or as their talents are needed. That's a big leap from Diablo where you have to pick a single class and stick to it. Here, if I take a beating I can swap in 3 fresh guys and continue the fight while the other 3 heal up. Keeps the flow going. Also, having guys under AI control means I don't have to click on every single monster myself. I pick where I need to help one of them out and jump in at his side. Nice. Mainly I find myself playing the wizard directly, because he is the most prone to getting himself killed and needs human spell management to be effective.

2. Add to that the tactic system, where I can give a general behavior to each of my guys and make a formation that protects the wizard or whatever. It works 90% of the time.

3. Multiplayer seems pretty decent. 4 castles that are PvP to each other, but you can have 7 people per team, or split the guys up amongst 2 or 3 of you. For me, that has a lot more appeal than Diablo, where you all share the same base.

4. Blacksmith and Priest are available from ANYWHERE. That's too cool. No more running back to town when I need to repair or make a potion run. Now, I camp outside the boss's lair and stock up on potions and buff up my armor and swords without breaking the flow of the game by having to take a 15 minute side trip.

Bottom line is that in the short time I've had it, I've made more progress in this game than I did in the same amount of time in D2... and I'm only playing it between breaks in my Sub Command assignment. (I need sanity breaks from that game, even though it's great I can only stare at sonar for so many hours before going cross-eyed.)

A couple of quick points before I scurry off into the nigh-magnificent odyssey that is known as "getting lunch with the CGW crew":

1) I don't think ToD quite lingers in the sea of massive mediocrity that it's being condemned to in this thread. To bring up a word that the Chickinator hates, I had "fun" with the game. I liked some of the noble ideas the dev team had, but these ideas were skewered by the deeply flawed execution. ToD proves that there was a reason why you only have direct control over one individual in Diablo II, or if you have direct control over an entire party, why such a game should be utilizing a turn-based system of design.

2) Mayhaps, like Jeff, I was so enamored by Japanese cultural fanboyism (reading Lone Wolf & Cub, the books both *about* and *by* Miyamoto Musashi, and hunting down as much Kurosawa DVDs as I can kinda puts me in a wonky mindset), that I looked past things other people would falter at. I do notice the deep deep flaws within the "tactic" framework of the game, but mayhaps I am indeed more forgiving due to the fact that I have ninjas wielding wakizashis; something I sorely missed. In the end, it gets average marks, from moi at least.

3) Advance Wars: Strategy Game Of The Year. Yes, it's "hella better," and I'd even also say things like "helsa better", "it be the bomb diggity yo", and "scooterlicious!"

4) Autorun is for the nanciest sissy-boy around. I go straight for the jugular that is "setup.exe".

5) I am as gay as a fox.

Thanks! We must do this again sometime!

-Thierry

Ah damn, wish I read QtT this weekend before going up to Fry's and pick up ToD for $30. Haven't had a chance to play it yet... oh well, at least I didn't do the double whammy and pick of PoR (which I was planning to do) too.

--- Alan

"Autorun is for the nanciest sissy-boy around. I go straight for the jugular that is "setup.exe"."

I always use autorun. I also keep file extensions and system files hidden, send email in HTML format with 18 point blue text and flowery backgrounds, have a Mariah Carey ICQ skin (and the matching Christina Aguilera WinAmp skin), and I like NOLF.

Is there hope?

"Is there hope?"

Haha, Ben. I actually thought you were serious until you got to the part about 'liking NOLF'. Good one!

-Tom

Ben:
"Is there hope?"

Sure. Just please don't send me any email. kthx

Ben, you use BonziBuddy too? That little purple ape cracks me up!

aside from all the gayness in the air, does anybody else think ToD is cool? I actually am close to picking it up since playing the demo more. I think the concept is good, and the gameplay is fun (based on demo)! I am kind of dissapointed in PoR2 and would like something to fill my needs til Camelot! Sheesh... i spend too much on pc gaming.

btw, theres nothing wrong with being gaily happy!

etc

I don't (think it's cool), but to each their own. To be fair, I only played it for about ten minutes before I got sick of it and uninstalled it. Then again, that's not much of an endorsement, either...

It's not as bad as a lot of us have made it out to be - but it's not good enough to spend a lot of time on if you have a lot of other games waiting to be played. The group here is pretty hardcore, and we all probably have more games than we have time to play (I'm going to get into Operation Flashpoint sometime in the next month. ;) ) Someone who doesn't play a lot of games may enjoy this one.

Is that a ringing endorsement?

Well I was way too much into OFP, and finally got the crpg groove (gay) back with Arcanum, and then PoR 2 was a letdown the first nite i played it and then i restarted and got a kickass party! then i replayed the ToD demo (originally played it at a friends thought it was too cartoony and hectic). But these three games seem to be gems imo. There is a vision to these games. there not exactly carbon copies of its predecessors (Fallout, PoR GoldBox crpgs', Diablo)... they bring something different to their influnces. I think they all seem good, though im still about a third of the way thru PoR 2 and just played the demo of ToD. So these are just intialy impressions... anyway, THEN we have a new mmrpg coming with Camelot! damn! who needs NWN and MW (of course i cant wait for those, but these games seem pretty cool!)

etc

"Someone who doesn't play a lot of games may enjoy this one."

For someone who doesn't play a lot of games, there are quite a few things I'd suggest before recommending Throne of Darkness. Why waste time on a game that is mediocre at best when there is far better fare available?

I've been messing a bit with Patrician II, and it actually looks really promising...

Nah, I agree with you Ben - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I was thinking more along the lines that someone who doesn't play many games, who picked it up at Best Buy, probably wouldn't think it's as bad as we do. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

"I've been messing a bit with Patrician II, and it actually looks really promising."

Yeah, I kind of like the demo. It could be some of the (good) things that Trade Empires wasn't.

Yeah, I dunno. I've put a coupla hours into Throne of Darkness, and so far I can't get too excited. There's something just *off* about it to me. Like, Scooter, I'm definitely a sucker for samurai-related entertainment, so the idea of this game totally appealed to me. But there's something just kinda cold and uninvolving for me about these characters--maybe cuz, as it's been said, this feels like more of an RTS than an RPG.

I was thinking: why didn't they just have us play ONE guy, ala Toshiro Mifune in the Seven Samurai--an outsider who has to prove his worth as a samurai. Let him build up, learn new skills, get tougher, get accepted. Cliched maybe, but it might have given this some element of involvement that feels lacking. But, again, this is a SUPER early assessment. The problem is: I'm not that motivated to keep going.

Is this game worth hanging in there with?

On the other hand: Advance Wars---turn-based strategy game of the year.

"Advance Wars---turn-based strategy game of the year."

In the year that Civ III comes out?

And why is Advance Wars anything other than Panzer General for the GBA? Someone convince me before I delete this GBA emulator from my computer.

-Tom

I'll believe Civ III is great when I see it. Until it comes out and is real (and is good and not just Civ II again), it doesn't count for shit.

As far as it being Panzer General for the GBA--you say that like it's a bad thing! Anyway, Panzer General didn't have hot anime babes giving me orders.

Let me repeat that: hot anime babes giving me orders. I rest my case.

"And why is Advance Wars anything other than Panzer General for the GBA? Someone convince me before I delete this GBA emulator from my computer."

That's exactly what it is. And that's a Good Thing. I gotta try out Fortress, too. Looks intriguing.

I was really skeptical of CivIII until I read Ben's preview. Most of the things they're changing, adding, removing make it look like the hybrid of Civ and Alpha Centauri with a buncha new stuff that I'll really want to play.

Strategy game of the year though? Kohan or Starships Unlimited so far for me. Both those games are pushing the envelope of the strategy genre. They seem turn-based but play in manageable real time. Even Rails Acrosss America has a similar great feel to it. They're all "fun"! *pokes Chick with a pointy stick*

I'll say it again...anyone complaining about this year's releases on the PC isn't playing the right games or doesn't enjoy the strategy genre. We've had some real gems come out in 2001 with a few more that might join the party before the year ends.

In a year of two console system releases, I'm glad to be a PC gamer.

--Dave

"I was really skeptical of CivIII until I read Ben's preview. Most of the things they're changing, adding, removing make it look like the hybrid of Civ and Alpha Centauri with a buncha new stuff that I'll really want to play."

Yeah, same here. Ben sold me. But I thought Tom co-wrote that sucker?

"I'll say it again...anyone complaining about this year's releases on the PC isn't playing the right games or doesn't enjoy the strategy genre. We've had some real gems come out in 2001 with a few more that might join the party before the year ends."

Um... allow me to interject by saying that a very, very famous editor of a prestigious computer gaming magazine just stated that a game made for a screen the same size as a large Post-It note, with graphics circa 1984's River Raid, and with game rules straight from the ancient boardgame Tactics II, should be Strategy Game of the Year. How can you possibly tell me that there is no reason to gripe about this year's strategy games selection?

I liked Kohan, but it didn't hold my attention more than a month. I liked a few other games too, but I'm still not that impressed. I'm hoping Civ III finally gives me something satisfying.

I think we've gone over this ground before Dave, and I said I would wait until the end of the year for my final decision, but I couldn't allow your zinger to go unnoticed. I've been playing plenty of the "right" games, but I've haven't been playing Combat Mission or Alpha Centauri!

"Um... allow me to interject by saying that a very, very famous editor of a prestigious computer gaming magazine just stated that a game made for a screen the same size as a large Post-It note, with graphics circa 1984's River Raid, and with game rules straight from the ancient boardgame Tactics II, should be Strategy Game of the Year. How can you possibly tell me that there is no reason to gripe about this year's strategy games selection? "

LOL. Yeesh. Please don't EVER refer to me that way again. WAY too much pressure. That was just the gut-level gaming reaction from a BIG DORKY GAMER. That was not my official professional pronouncement. What I'm loving about Advance Wars is that it's just incredibly well-balanced, very deep (surprisingly so), and generous in terms of gameplay time and replayability. Plus, it's Panzer General for the GBA. :) I can lay in bed, or sit on the train, and get my turn-based strategy jones satisfied. So that makes me extremely happy.

I really liked Kohan too. I keep meaning to go back and finish it. In my head, that's still the front-runner for strategy game of the year (on the PC). I started getting into Fallout Tactics, but it just showed up at a time when I had a million other things to play. So I gotta get back to that one. And, yeah, of *course* I want to play Civ III and I'm hoping it's everything that the first two were.

Let me put my enthusiasm for Advance Wars in a different context: it's FINALLY a GBA game that I'm good at, because all the fuckin' reflex games like Rayman Advance have been driving me nuts. :)

Anyone else deeply in love with Mario Kart for the GBA? I think what I like about it is it's easy if you want it to be, and challenging, yet not impossible, on the 150cc difficulty level. I'm considering getting Advance Wars, but it sounds like a time commitment game. I prefer to play the GBA in 10 minute or less spurts (due to the lighting issue, I begin to cramp up holding it at the perfect angle). So, I'd rather play Panzer General on the PC than on the GBA.

-Andrew

Mario Kart was the reason I bought my GBA. I heard that it was being ported over, and bought it ASAP. A lot of it is due to nostalgia, but man alive, I spent many nights re-racing Bowser's Castle and Rainbow Road and whatfor.

Now, back to the CGW Advance Wars bruhaha with moi, Tom Price, and Dorky Gamer Supreme, Jeff Green.

-Scoot

Sorry Jeff, I got carried away. But you're definitely the most famous big dorky gamer I've ever known. Well, except for Wumpus.