I am going to vomit. I hate this man more than Bin Laden.

http://www.poenews.com/imgs/falwell2.mp3

Pathetic. Frightening, too. I see little difference in this alleged appeal to God (not my God, that's for sure) and this sorry attempt to paint a very human tragedy, committed by warped humans against innocent humans, in terms of some sort of divine retribution.

There may well be divine retribution, but I sincerely hope and pray it's against assholes like Falwell and Pat Robertson.

Er, that should read I see little difference between this stuff and the terrorist's insistence God is on their side....

Ugh, Falwell just turns my stomach as well. I can almost sympathize with the Islamic extremist factions when I hear this kinda of blatant stupidity out of the mouth of a "Christian".

The only terrorism abortions cause is the goofballs bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors.

Using religion as a tool of hate and bigotry is what has gotten humanity into terrible situations like the events of this week.

Sigh...

Religious extremists -- my least favorite people on earth.

My two cents: I'm a Christian. I'm anti-abortion (don't believe in euphanisms.)

And I wish Falwell would go hide in the caves of Afghanistan. Next week would be a good time.

I really hate it when extremists (although Falwell and Pat Robertson have said and done several things that I agree with, they certainly have some unbelievably stupid moments, too) give the rest of us Christians a bad name.

I know that most people here are too intelligent to think this, but please: Don't assume that we're all like this.

It's one thing to be 110% dedicated to your religion. It's another thing to jump overboard.

And, on behalf of all Christians, I'd like to apologize to you all for those that give us a bad name.

An aside, off-topic.

"My two cents: I'm a Christian. I'm anti-abortion (don't believe in euphanisms.)"

Jeff, I'm not about to get into a discussion like this with you again. Mostly because I do respect your passion, your conviction, and even your position. But in the current New Yorker (with a tarty Statue of Liberty on the cover) there's a very interesting short essay on Abortion heading the Talk of the Town news section.

It's very even handed and probably marks where our respective sides on this issue join and merge.

Besides, the Pauline Kael tribute is worth the cover price anyway.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. Sorry for the aside.

-Andrew

I feel sick now.

I somehow felt more comfortable with the knowledge that influential people with dangerous ideals were "over there" in another country, and part of a religious belief not shared by many in this country. That they could murder 5 thousand innocent people was horrible, saddening, and sobering, but I could deal with that, intellectually.

Jerry Falwell really disturbs me, though. He's so...so...HERE. He has influence over too many people in the bible belt. And for someone who is supposed to follow Christ, he sure is full of hate.

The hateful, unforgiving, and not-understanding attitude of Falwell is the kind of thing that turned me off my Christian upbriginging. I really wish Jesus Christ would return so he could personally tell Falwell how disappointed he is in him, and how wrong he is, just to see the look on Jerry's face.

"I really wish Jesus Christ would return so he could personally tell Falwell how disappointed he is in him, and how wrong he is, just to see the look on Jerry's face."

He'd claim that it was the Anti-Christ. Falwell's infallible, just like the Pope, but without the funny hat.

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The hateful, unforgiving, and not-understanding attitude of Falwell is the kind of thing that turned me off my Christian upbriginging.

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>I am going to vomit. I hate this man more than Bin Laden.

Isn't he the same guy? That shit's ridiculous. Falwell should be lit on fire.

Amazingly, stupefyingly ignorant. That's the only way I can describe Falwell.

An additional five hundred demerits for trying to take personal advantage of Tuesday's tragedy. What a fucking despicable thing to try and do...

I'm not religious, and yet I consider myself to be immensely spiritual, with a large amount of my faith vested in human nature. That faith was shaken on Tuesday. However, it does remind me that faith and religion are not the same things. I too find it despicable that anyone would turn tragedy to personal gain, particularly under the pretense of religious fervor.

- Alan

I've never heard of this guy before, but just based on hearing that, I'd say he does more than just give Christians a bad name. It's many orders of magnitude above that.

"He's no more representative of Christians in general than the Crusades were of Catholics or
than the people that did this were of the Islamic religion... "

My thoughts exactly.

You've never heard of Jerry Falwell? Not meant as an insult Mark, really, are you very young? He was infamous in his anti-porn and other crusades throughout the 80's, and before.

I sort of envy you if you really haven't heard of him. He's an annoyingly loudmouthed ball of hate.

-Andrew

And he sued Larry Flint.

All because Flint published a fake ad for some liquor that had Falwell's mother drunkenly conceiving him in an outhouse.

Falwell lost.

Heh.

Dean

"All because Flint published a fake ad for some liquor that had Falwell's mother drunkenly conceiving him in an outhouse."

The ad featured Falwell having sex with his own mother in an outhouse. I think there was a chicken involved. Or I may be confusing that with Flynt's own sexual history, which included a chicken. As he is often pointing out.

I worked at Flynt Publications (at Computer Player, which later became OGR magazine) around the 20th anniversary of Hustler, and so there was plenty of Flynt lore bandied around the place at that time. Many employees seemed to enjoy relating tales of his high-profile antics, but working for the man was another thing entirely. I usually found myself hiding in a filing cabinet whenever Larry came down to check on us.

-Ron

Jerry Falwell is the founder of the Christian Coalition -- the ultra-conservative political Christian group who back a lot of publicly-Christian candidates and inform the public -- often whether they want to hear it or not -- of what's "morally right" and "morally wrong." Personally, as a Christian, I would say that they're often right, but regularly wrong, and always obnoxious.

I'm a big supporter of what Falwell's organization could be, but am amazingly disappointed by what it is.

And while I think that there's a good man inside him somewhere, all too often he comes across as nothing more than an arrogant, condescending, holier-than-thou windbag.

Anything else you'd like to know about Falwell?

Michael Murphy (Murph) - while when it comes down to it I guess I still consider myself a catholic. This is one of the problems I have with organized religion. You really shouldn't need someone to tell you what is morally right or wrong - that is just someone elses opinion. Instead of being a zombie, people should have a moral code of their own and follow it. falwell and every other religous leader - including the pope - has an agenda often outside of morality that they try to further by the use of selective moral outrage.

Chet

Agreed -- and I'm sorry if I came across as supporting him. I do think he's a "good man," and I suspect that, morally speaking, he and I would agree on a lot. But, he tells people when they aren't interested in listening, and drives people away -- that's a horribly bad thing to do. I'm all for advice when people are receptive; forcing your point of view on someone else is never the right thing to do.

"I worked at Flynt Publications (at Computer Player, which later became OGR magazine) around the 20th anniversary of Hustler"

Flynt published OGR's mag?!? wow.... did you get to SEE anything? hohoho! was he a cool guy? was he anything like they portrayed him in that movie?

oh yeah falwell, whatever happened to that other preacher guy that had a the wife that used a lot of makeup, and he had an affair and said he sinned... sorry bad with names, but that guy was kind of weird. ah the eighties. such a decade it was.

etc

"I do think Falwell's a "good man,"

You are wrong. If there was such a thing as Hell, he'd be the first person set on fire there. For all eternity. Amen.

Falwell, from an article regarding faith on Salon.

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," Falwell told Robertson on the 700 Club Wednesday, according to the Washington Post. "Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. Falwell went on to blame the ACLU and federal courts for "throwing God out of the public square." He continued:

"The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

I'm a pretty strong opponent of abortion, as Andrew knows well. ;) And I have both secular and moral reasons for that. But to say that people who I disagree with, even if I vehemently disagree with them, are responsible for this - well, that's just reprehensible.

Falwell has forgotten that the basis of Christianity is that in God's eyes no one is "good enough" - and that therefore the flaws in our own life prevent us from being able to hold ourselves higher than anyone else, in the end. And I'd remind Paul's admonishment to all of us: "The only thing that truly matters is faith expressing itself in love." When Jesus was asked how people, non-Christians, would know who the followers of Christ were, the response was "they will know you are Christians through your love." We all fall down from that standard - I do every day - but this finger pointing is disgusting.

sorry for the impromptu sermon...

A good minister to contrast with Falwell is Billy Graham. I think he's also pretty conservative, though probably not as far to the right as Falwell, and yet he doesn't really politicize his preaching. The difference is profound.

Billy Graham is a great example, Mark. He's probably as conservative and findamental in his beliefs as anyone. Yet he is the perfect example of the humbleness that is supposed to be the clothing of the true Christian. From everything I've ever heard or read about Billy Graham he truly cares about people and thinks of himself as just a humble servant. He's as anti-abortion as anyone, for example, but in contrast to Falwell his response to a pro-abortion person is to invite them home for dinner, to remind them that God loves them both, to tell them that even though he understands their point of view, why he believes abortion is wrong, and then give them his home phone number (and he'd be at their hospital bed if they were injured or dying.)

And that's why Graham has taken the role of spiritual advisor for every President in most of lifetimes.

-Andrew

Yeah, you guys have hit it right on. If I had to point to a man who represents publicly what Christianity should be, it would probably be Billy Graham. He's the kind of Christian that I wish I was.

"This is one of the problems I have with organized religion. You really shouldn't need someone to tell you what is morally right or wrong - that is just someone elses opinion."

Wrong on two counts

1. Falwell is not part of any truly 'organized religion.' His base is made up of mostly non-denominational types who refer to themselves as "Christian," but have no unifying theological stance other than:
A) Gays are evil
B) See A)

2. You really do need someone to tell you what is right and wrong. You are correct in believing that we all have a built-in moral compass. The problem is that just like a magnetic compass, it doesn't point to true north. And just like a magnetic compass, we tend to believe that it's close enough. In the case of Falwell, he's so busy pointing out other people's misdirections, he never realizes that he is lost.

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You've never heard of Jerry Falwell? Not meant as an insult Mark, really, are you very young? He was infamous in his anti-porn and other crusades throughout the 80's, and before.

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Anything else you'd like to know about Falwell?

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