So IT is out now. I don't know a great deal about the thing, and really wasn't that tuned in to the hype, but I've read a couple stories about it and the more I read the more I think it looks pretty neat.

However, some of today's stories do sort of read like something from The Onion. Neat is one thing, revolutionary, that's something else.

"He believes the Segway "will be to the car what the car was to the horse and buggy."

But again, I know almost nothing about this, so maybe a personal scooter that won't let you fall over and moves like the single occupancy vehicle version of Firefox can be considered a revolution.

Here's a link if you care:

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660,00.html

Amanpour

Oh man, they spent a $100 million dollars and 10 years developing that?

It will never be a success, it looks stupid and serves no purpose. It looks like they've redesigned a stairlift for the infirm to ride about the streets in. Why get cold and wet riding around on a carpet beater on wheels, when you can save your money and pride by walking instead? Skateboards and roller-blades have chic, this thing would prove an embarrassment. People will be shouting, "get your fat ass off the cripple carrier and walk you pavement hog!"

No offense to disabled people, but something that looks like an off-shoot branch of wheelchair design isn't going to look cool, and nobody wants to look uncool on their way to work in the morning. Perhaps if they'd have gone with a jet black design, and shark gill styled slashes down the sides, it might have a little bit of street cred. Hospital grey is simply not going to sell.

---

Quote:

Just what our country needs, another excuse to avoid exercise and grow fatter and fatter...

---

Speaking of Segways, er, segues, who comes up with the names for these things?

- Alan

I'm a bit disappointed with IT also. How can it be a car replacement when it only goes 12MPH, can't ride passengers, and isn't good for toting anything around? It's also $3000!

It's electric, but so what? Can't I get an electric scooter now that doesn't look nearly as geeky? Besides, gas-powered scooters use practically no gas anyway, so they're cheap to operate.

I dunno -- maybe there's a market for it for people who can't afford cars.

The only real advantage it has that I see is that it's small and you can take it with you when you go in a building, so you don't have to worry about parking or it getting stolen. It does weigh 65 pounds, so it's not exactly something anyone will want to carry around for too long inside a building.

Back when the furor initially arose I was intrigued, but I also thought it would move a bit faster. At 12MPH it's too slow to go any worthwhile distance, and for short jaunts why not walk?

"It will never be a success, it looks stupid and serves no purpose."

It may or may not look stupid (I have yet to see it in action), but it could well serve a purpose. It moves quite a bit faster than walking speed (up to 17mph, apparently), so you really could use it as a car replacement for short distance travel (in urban areas, for instance, where your average driving speed is rarely much over 17 mph anyway). It apparently can run for a whole day of continuous operation without recharging, on about five cents worth of electricity.

As a piece of engineering, it's really impressive. Whether or not it will be revolutionary... we'll have to wait and see.

I just checked. You can buy an electric scooter for $249. It's not self-balancing like IT, but otherwise it does the same thing -- move you from point A to point B. The one I looked at does 13MPH and weighs 36 pounds and has a 3-6 hour charge time. This looks like a motorized skateboard, basically.

I also looked at Honda and you can buy a nice looking gas-powered scooter from them for $1699.

I'm thinking of Europe and Asia's bike n' scooter crowded streets all of a sudden.

Yep, count me in with the disappointed folks.

I do an enormous amount of commuting, and even if my community would make drastic changes to its infastructure (Segway lanes, etc.), I couldn't see myself using this device. How would I get the kids to day care? Not only that, but where would I put all the stuff I normally throw into the hatchback on my daily troupe to work?

This is a device for single people and utter geeks. As it's primarlily a device for utter geeks, anyone who rides one is in danger of immediately being Segway-jacked. Instead of bumping into you to initiate a jacking, theives will simply string up clothes lines and pull a Wile E. Coyote on your neck as you pass by.

$3000?!?! Yikes. A brand new honda scooter can be had for a $1000 and actully have 80cc to get you around.

12mph? Yeah, right. Get a used jap cruiser. You'd be walking the sidwalks, but at least you'd look cool toting that helmet and sporting some leathers.

oops, meant $1000 cheaper. Not a $1000 price tag. :)

I have no idea what Dean Kamen is smoking, but I want some. Revolutionary? Where? Not here in the US.

You'll get our gas-guzzling SUVs when you pry them out of our cold, dead hands.

So that's "Ginger"? Heck, that's not even a
"MaryAnn". A "Mrs. Howell", maybe.

And I bet the Professor could have built that in
six months, with two coconuts, some bamboo
poles and a VIC 20.

The name is also terrible, a play on a pretentious word and an anagram of sew-gay. And it is.

When I said it served no purpose, I meant that other means of transport to fill its role already. Bikes, scooters, skateboards, and shoes are all better, cheaper, and less stupid looking ways of getting about. I also don't think it will take off in Europe - give us some credit please!

I read about it today. It sounds like the revolution Kamen is hoping for is for city transportation. The Segway doesn't have to be on the road, because it isn't classes as a vehicle, so it can probably use the sidewalks. I think he's hoping to see electric scooters replacing cars in the cities.

I just can't see it, though. Segway, for all it's neato-torpedo gyroscopic stabilizers (which make it hard to fall over on, which will be a big draw for the balance-challenged)offers no protection from the elements. It has a short range of about, I think, 12 miles. It only gets up to 12 mph, so even a 6-mile commute (considered very short where I live) will take you a half-hour (without lights, and assuming good sidewalks all the way to your destination)vs 10-15 minutes in a car. It hasn't got any substantial cargo capacity, so people will still need cars for hauling groceries and other supplies.

I'm not disappointed in Segway, but I didn't have any expectations going in. I don't know why I would want one, though.

Somehow I can't envision Segway gangs roaming the streets of the future. I might be interested if the control mechanisms were transplanted into something with a bit more pick-up. Until then, it's a weird toy to file away with the Nintendo power glove.

- Alan

Here's a good picture of Kamen demonstrating the Segway, replete with nerdy helmet and grin.

http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/c48744f9a964ec/www.msnbc.com/news/1285912.jpg

And a good article to accompany it, too, from MSN. Better than that publicity hype from Time, at least.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/665724.asp?pne=msn

I really do think the only market for this thing is people too fat and lazy to ride a bike. Sheesh.

I once saw a "Kids in the Hall" sketch where Dave Foley played a guy bragging about how he tripped an "asshole riding his bike on the sidewalk."

Wonder if that will happen with this, too. Drive the thing too close to the wrong tough guy and end up splattered on the sidewalk.

I also picture many, many lawsuits from people who get their toes run over.

Man, you're a bunch of bitter skeptics. I think the thing has potential. The USPS is interested in buying an ass-load of these things for mail carriers. Just that kind of contract should be enough to keep the company going long enough for them to reduce the price of a unit to mass-market levels. They could do very well in Europe and Asia, as mentioned above, where cars are already tiny and tons of people ride bikes and scooters. Hell, I've worked at a company with a huge campus where I was constantly going from building to building. I usually drove my car around because I could spend 2 hourse a day just walking from place to place. And that made parking a nightmare. But putting a few of these things in a small lot at each building for employee use would be fantastic. Or if you live in a downtown metropolotin area where everyting you need is too close to bother with a cab or subway, but still takes too long to walk, one of these would be great.

Brad Grenz

One word: bicycle. Or if that takes too much manual dexterity, try the electric scooters that Mark pointed out.

Now if this was a personal flying device, I'd be excited. And scared, but mostly excited. That would be revolutionary indeed.

"Man, you're a bunch of bitter skeptics."

Well, some of us ARE a bit jaded, sitting here
in Silicon Valley and thereabouts, watching
clueless VCs shovel cash into
overhyped technology like this, just because
"they heard about it in Wired". See also: the
CueCat, ISmell, the Sportbrain, Teddy
Ruxpin...

However, I have perfected a "Calvin Pissing
On Segway" sticker for the back of my car
window.

Make way for the nerd mobile!!

Man, it's really sad when a self-proclaimed nerd's toy doesn't even fly with a group of gaming geeks on a PC gaming message board.

Sad, indeed.

"The USPS is interested in buying an ass-load of these things for mail carriers."

Well, at least it will give dogs more exercise.

More thoughts:

1) Wish they would add the Segway to GRAND THEFT AUTO III. Seg-jacking would be bad-ass.

2) It's just a matter of time until Eddie Murphy gets busted cruising for transexual whores on a Segway.

3) Apple will purchase an exclusive license to the Segway, rename it the iSeg, give it a transparent body and graphite wheels, and put a firewire MP3 player in it. List price: $24,999.

I don't care how much the price comes down, you'd have to pay me to ride around town on one of those things. People hate kids on bikes tearing up the pavement, they are going to really hate geeks on segs...I wonder...as these things look destined to be the toys of the lazy and obese, do you think they've stress tested these for the real heavyweights? Imagine the law suits if some guy ends up with broken nose and teeth from leaning forward on this thing only for the gyroscopes to cave in under the pressure.

"Man, it's really sad when a self-proclaimed nerd's toy doesn't even fly with a group of gaming geeks on a PC gaming message board."

Oh, I don't know, it's only a matter of time before someone rigs one up to control an office chair by leaning. That would be a *much* better toy.

I hadn't heard the bit about the USPS before. Now I like the USPS, don't get me wrong, but how about we give dogs powered exo-skeletons just to even things up a little. (hee hee)

- Alan

I live in a typical planned suburb now - my wife calls it "Poltergeisty" (minus the unmoved graveyard). I've lived in dense urban areas, too. Where do the designers of this thing live? I can't imagine anywhere it would be appreciated, safe, or useful.

Also, as I deal with municipal land use and planning issues every day, I *love* the idea that we will re-engineer cities to accommodate Segways. Deliciously naive! I'm going to try that in the next negotiation I have with a developer, just to see if their eyes will bug out of their heads and to test my poker face. "Yes, and we also want a 15-foot right of way for the Segway lanes." (Pause for big laffs from all sides)

Anyone notice that the article linked to above is entitled 'Reinventing the Wheel?' I thought the idea was not to waste time reinventing the wheel. *heh*

On a more serious note, this could be a big win in crowded urban environments, where space is at a premium and parking is a nightmare. Then again, you have to wonder why electric mini-scooters aren't more popular in big cities (or are they?).

- Alan

Everyone keeps saying how much easier it would be to walk or ride a bike, but that misses the point. With this thing, you don't have to do anything but ride. According to the report, it's so easy to use that you just have to think about what you want it to do and bingo, it goes.

That certainly preys on the typical American sensibilities of avoiding physical activity. If you have to walk two miles, what do you do today? You drive. With this device, you could save money, energy and your shoes all at the same time.

Sounds kinda neat to me.

--Dave

$3000 IS the reduced "market price". Currently it's selling for $8,000 until they sell enough to bring down costs.

Wrap your mind around that cost for a minute. The USPS is thinking about paying $8000 each for these things for their postal carriers to use. Now my question is this; What the hell are they thinking? I spose they can use it to transport $500 hammers and $2000 toilet seats for the armed forces.

For $8000, you could buy each postal worker an electric scooter AND a Kia Ultima to get to work in.

Anyone have a link to those fuel-cell powered rollerskates? I'm betting those would be much more practical to equip of fine postal workers with.

Oh and just a side note. Maximum passenger weight is 250 pounds. Max cargo weight is 75 pounds.

With that weight restriction, you pretty well just removed many of your possible endorsers.

I could sort of imagine if you built an ultra-modern Le Corbusier-esque city somewhere in the third world, where fewer people can afford a car, you could have folks tooling around on their segues. It's basically like a bicycle but without the exercise. In American cities, I think it would be a tough sell unless we go to war with everyone in the Middle East and run out of oil. Even then, I give GM and Ford 5-10 years tops before they invent an affordable car that runs on ethanol or something.

Admittedly a device can spur societal changes -- we had to change our roads and our rules and our traffic laws and whatnot when cars came in. But cars themselves performed the same function as horse-and-buggies... i.e. they could carry *more than one person* and they could carry *stuff*, neither of which the Segue does. Also, I wonder if anyone back in Ought Eight felt as goofy riding around in a Model T, as I would feel riding around in one of these. I rather doubt it, but who knows.

Sorry, Mr. Kamen. At $300 it would just be gay; at $3,000 it's gay *and* expensive.

But then maybe we are just the crusty curmudgeons keeping the visionaries down, like the guy who said "the automobile is a passing fancy."

But I doubt it. Actually I think Kamen was funded by ABC News, who needed an excuse to boost ratings for Good Morning America by hyping this damn thing up.

"If you have to walk two miles, what do you do today? You drive. With this device, you could save money, energy and your shoes all at the same time."

At best you save pennies, after you lay down the intial three grand to purchase the Segway.

If you really want to ride those two miles, buy an electric skateboard scooter for $269. As far as I can tell, the only real difference between it and the Segway is the self-balancing thing.

I was hoping that at least it went faster. Something that can travel as fast as a motorcycle but is much safer might attract more interest.

The innovations are great, and I'm sure the technology involved will be spun into other things. But I don't see how the base product can be successful. Yes, 3 years ago in the middle of an economic boom when everyone was buying $80k SUVs for the hell of it, you could sell a $3k scooter. Now people are actually concerned about money.

It's too expensive to be a gift for your kids. Too impractical for your average commuter. Too useless for trips to the store. Too easy to steal for every day use. In other words, a few too many toos to be successful, IMHO.

Oh, another thing about that Time acticle. This line kills me:

"Not only does it have no brakes, it also has no engine, no throttle, no gearshift and no steering wheel. And it can carry the average rider for a full day, nonstop, on only five cents' worth of electricity."

Then, later, it says it reaches speeds of 17 MPH and has a max range of 17 miles on level ground. Meaning? You can ride it for 1 hour on a full charge at full speed. Going down hill will charge it, but due to friction and the inefficiency of rotor based recharging, going uphill will drain more than you gained by going downhill. So going up and down hill will lower your range below the 17 mile mark.

That "full day, nonstop" must be sitting still while the gyroscopes suck down the battery keeping it from falling down while you're leaning on it.

Read through the hype.

First, it operates for 1.5 hours at full power. 1.5 hours - not all day. The all day was the very vague answer the inventor came up with. It also needs to charge for 6 hours after its 1.5 hours of use.

The US postal service is interested in looking at it? No where do they mention they are actually going to put them into testing rolling them out etc. That is just salesman spin. At 1.5 hours, there is no way they would be useful to the post office. The other issue, the wheels don't roll freely so when you do run out of power you have to carry it - 75 lbs not the 65 lbs quoted in most articles.


The US forestry service wants them? I don't think so. The one example of off roading was going up a wheelchair safe ramp. Did anyone notice the only one allowed to go through the water was the one with the specially marked black wheels? hmmmmmm

Also, if you commute with one. Where do you lock it up? do you carry the 75 lbs up to your office? Don't give me the are theft proof, they have weak 64 bit encryption and can be picked up. This lets you grab it and then spend about 4 hours to hack the code to use it.

Could you see what your insurance would be on this thing?

There are a million more negative things, but what kind of commuting vehicle would you expect from an inventor who uses the environmentally friendly method of commuting - the helicopter.

Chet

One other thing - there would be no need for all the fancy gyroscopes if they just added an extra wheel. That would also add more space to put things, like the mail. But when your entire invention is the balancing gyros, you need to make a product so unstable, it needs them.

Chet

I forgot if you guys care about profanity or not, I doubt it, we're all adults here. But just a warning. =)

After speaking with most of my family, half of which are "intellectuals," the other half are just "normal people," the average vote seems to be:

What the fuck is that?

Literally, the intellectuals thought, "Well, that's the stupidest product I have ever seen in my life. So skin me alive and use it for a teepee, if this is the way technology is going, I want back into the 1800's."

They thought nothing of the "visionary" use of "technology" which could change the "future" of commuting thru significant "advances" using the gyroscopes.

The "regular people" think, "Ok, that's pretty damn useless. I've seen Alabama hicks come up with more impressive inventions. I think Communism is a better idea than this. Jesus H. Christ, if He [Jesus] knew that he gave his life for this pile of tripe, I think he would've just walked away from the cross and said, 'Fuck it.' But, on the upside, I think the fact that he used gyroscopes to make it auto-balancing could be used in the future."

So, there you have it, an entire family's point of few summized into one small entry: It's the stupidest invention since Ovaltine, and the technology is on a 50/50 vote on being 'completely utterly useless' and 'might have some value if you're comparing it to a McDonald's Extra Value Meal bought on the top of a skyscraper'.

"Somehow I can't envision Segway gangs roaming the streets of the future."

Oh really? How about gangs roaming the streets of the future on roller skates, smart guy? I've seen it.

"If you have to walk two miles, what do you do today? You drive. With this device, you could save money, energy and your shoes all at the same time."

The point here isn't distance, it's time (as a function of speed). Even if I waste ten minutes after I get to my two-mile-away destination looking for a parking space, I still have the impression that I've saved time because of speed along the way. Even if I could have gotten over the Mullholland Pass in less time on a bicycle because of the ridiculous amount of time I spent in traffic, I still would have the impression that the car gets there faster because of speed on the surface streets getting to the freeway. Now comfort plays a role as well, but if someone developed a teleportation tube tomorrow I think a lot of cars would start to get real rusty, real quick.

Amanpour

P.S. Please excuse the ridiculous amount of alliteration in the above statement.

"Oh really? How about gangs roaming the streets of the future on roller skates, smart guy? I've seen it."

Um, I hate to ruin your arguement to that, except for the fact:

Roller skates cost at most $300.

This cost $8000.

Case in point, read the lines. =)

If this technology can become more robust in certain areas, then it's certainly revolutionary. The example of postal workers works well here -- rather than buy, operate, and maintain a truck for a local route (a very expensive proposition over the long haul), why not use one of these doohickeys? It seems to be very simple, mechanically, which would likely mean less maintenance costs. And, let's not forget, no gasoline, which is a big deal if you're operating a fleet of these.

As of right now, it's not revolutionary, but it certainly has a great deal of potential to become so, and I think that a lot of you are selling this idea a little short.

---

Quote:

It's the stupidest invention since Ovaltine

---

Why not use it for a postal carrier?

How are they going to carry the boxes? And it only works for 1.5 hours. If this is such an amazingly great concept for the post office, why aren't they all riding mopeds now? Or even a regular scooter - or golf carts? Why aren't they considering those? BECAUSE THE US POST OFFICE IS NOT CONSIDERING THESE. that was all hype. all bull. All he did was probably call up the us postal service and ask if he could send them one. These make no sense for the postal service.

But i saw it on TV so it must be true...

Chet

My opinion: It's just a tech demo. The negative to positive ratio is 100 to 1 on the usefulness of this thing in its current state. Dean's probably just showing off the engine in an attempt to get some bigger backers for mass producing useful machines equipped with the gyroscope technology. A two thousand pound truck that never needs gas, never needs an oil change and never needs to meet emissions standards would be much more valuable than a bunch of personal scooters. If the technology could be adapted to that level, yeah, I could see USPS swapping out everything they have for the new machines.

'A two thousand pound truck that never needs gas, never needs an oil change and never needs to meet emissions standards would be much more valuable than a bunch of personal scooters.'

That doesn't have jack squat to do with gyroscopes, though. The auto companies are already locking up the hybrid market (Seattle's buying a fleet of diesel/electric hybrid buses), and I'm sure they'll do the same with full electric cars. In 20 years or so, that is.

This thing is just the ass-end of the VC stupidity craze.

Chet Said:
"BECAUSE THE US POST OFFICE IS NOT CONSIDERING THESE. that was all hype. all bull. All he did was probably call up the us postal service and ask if he could send them one. These make no sense for the postal service."

Not completely true. According to the Time article, the postmaster general and the head of the National Parks Service contacted Kamen about using the Segway. I'm just guessing, but I think they might have a better idea of how this technology might be utilized for their organizations than you.

Honestly, I'm not sure where all this venom is coming from. Is it the idea that this guy is trying to create some interesting and potentially useful technology, or the fact that mainstream media went gaga over it.

"Not completely true. According to the Time article, the postmaster general and the head of the National Parks Service contacted Kamen about using the Segway. I'm just guessing, but I think they might have a better idea of how this technology might be utilized for their organizations than you.

Honestly, I'm not sure where all this venom is coming from. Is it the idea that this guy is trying to create some interesting and potentially useful technology, or the fact that mainstream media went gaga over it."

The fact that you just completely acted like the fool that he described, the person who believes everything they read and can't see thru hype, nulls and voids your arguement.

He completely obliterated what you just said, yet you try and make the same assinine point.

And another thing, saying things like, 'Well, so and so run a big big company or service and thus they know all, you don't because you're only one person,' is perhaps up there with the stupidest of statements along with, 'Hey, they're famous for it, if you think you know all, why aren't you famous too?'

Sometimes I wonder if people even bother reading sometimes, or if they just see what they want.

"It's the stupidest invention since Ovaltine"

Oh, so YOU'RE one of those Nestle QUIK
people...

"My opinion: It's just a tech demo. The negative to positive ratio is 100 to 1 on the usefulness of this thing in its current state. Dean's probably just showing off the engine in an attempt to get some bigger backers for mass producing useful machines equipped with the gyroscope technology. A two thousand pound truck that never needs gas, never needs an oil change and never needs to meet emissions standards would be much more valuable than a bunch of personal scooters. If the technology could be adapted to that level, yeah, I could see USPS swapping out everything they have for the new machines."

I do hate to break it to you, but any type of moving vehicle that needs the power behind it that a car does, needs some type of cooling/lubrication.

There will _never_ be a vehicle that does not need oil or coolant of some sort, and does not have emissions.

It can _not_ be done.

And like Jason said above, the auto-industry already has those kind of things locked up and in the making. If Dean Kamen thinks he can push this gyroscope technology into any industry, let alone the automotive industry, by pushing around a scooter with gyroscopes, he's severely mistaken in his thinking.

And I'm quite sure that no one has thought of this before, but there's this thing called a chronometer, you might've heard of it, it's a sea-bearing device that keeps perfect time no matter what the condition. Your ship could roll in a hurricane and it would not be knocked a second off, it's more precise than the atomic clock. What does this have to do with Ginger?

It has to do with the fact that this kind of technology, gyroscope technology, has been around for centuries.

People should stop buying into hype.

My favorite bit of commentary on the thing, from the Time article:

'It was Arthur C. Clarke who famously observed that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." By that standard, Ginger is advanced indeed.'

They also say it cost 100 million to develop. I should switch careers to "fleecing VCs."

'He imagines them everywhere: in parks and at Disneyland, on battlefields and factory floors, but especially on downtown sidewalks from Seattle to Shanghai.'

BATTLEFIELDS? Aahhahahaha.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660,00.html

If anyone contacted him and were interested in it - it was when he was hinting it would have a stirling engine in it and run all day. As others have pointed out the engine is not the invention, it is the gyroscopes. And they wouldn't be needed if he just added another wheel. Besides the fancy gyroscopes, what is here, that doesn't exist elsewhere?

In 3 minutes of watching - you can fall off. Diane Swayer was on here way to falling to the ground when one of the two handlers following the newbies around caught her. If they were such a magical balancing machine, why did they need handlers for the newbies?

Anything that only runs for 1.5 hours (at best) and needs at least 6 hours of recharging is just not a very valuable tool in any business.

Chet

Met K said:
"And another thing, saying things like, 'Well, so and so run a big big company or service and thus they know all, you don't because you're only one person,' is perhaps up there with the stupidest of statements along with, 'Hey, they're famous for it, if you think you know all, why aren't you famous too?'"

Forgive me for thinking the Postmaster General, might know more about how the Post Office is run than Chet. You're right, that was positively stupid. For all I know, Chet IS the Postmaster General.

And this still doesn't explain why you're so bent out of shape. Were you working on a gyroscooter in your spare time and he beat you to the punch?

Chet Said:
"Anything that only runs for 1.5 hours (at best) and needs at least 6 hours of recharging is just not a very valuable tool in any business."

I guess I'll throw away my electric beard trimmer. And my hand-vac :)

But seriously, where did you get those numbers? I read that it charges in 2 hours. I'd like to read the article you read, although Met K will probably jump down my throat should I choose to believe it.

Don't worry about Met K, Greg. He thought I was serious about gangs on roller skates. Guess he's not a big Corey Haim fan.

Amanpour

Ahhh, Prayer of the Rollerboys. A Classic.

-g

"Forgive me for thinking the Postmaster General, might know more about how the Post Office is run than Chet. You're right, that was positively stupid. For all I know, Chet IS the Postmaster General."

The way you put it, you were talking as if you yourself were the Post Master General, Dean Kamen, The Lead Engineer On This Project, Boris Karlopf, President Bush, and God himself.

Next time you say something that conflicts with another person's opinion, such as 'Hey, I think the post office knows more about what they're ordering and how-to use it than you. Even tho I have no legitimate proof that they're actually buying these things, let alone the Post Master General is interested in them,' don't try and sound like you yourself know it all.

"And this still doesn't explain why you're so bent out of shape."

I'm not bent out of shape. This is how I argue, this is how I talk. If I was bent out of shape, I would've told you something along the lines of, 'Hey, buddy, why don't you and my bumper demonstrate what happens when Ginger, going 12 miles an hour, collides with a 1986 Lincoln going 12 miles an hour.'

"But seriously, where did you get those numbers? I read that it charges in 2 hours. I'd like to read the article you read, although Met K will probably jump down my throat should I choose to believe it."

What articles were you reading? I read 6 hours as well.

It's fanboys like you and Amanpour who get me reeling in arguementative-fashion like this. 'Gee, I guess you've never heard of roller skate gangs.'

Sorry, when people start rebuttling with things like that, I start to get 'bent out of shape.'

Oh, oops, remove Amanpour from that statement above, I thought you _were_ serious about gangs on roller-skates. ;)

You never can tell online, you know, no tone or facial expressions. Sorry I didn't detect your sarcasm. =)

gregbemis - nice to see how feeble your argument has become. You are now comparing it to your electric shaver. I saw that Norelco commercial where Santa rides his razor, I had no idea that was a viable means of travel. Or are you saying this comes with some kind of shaver attachment?

While I applaud you on the thoroughness of your marathon shave sessions. Most of us shave for 5 minutes. I think most mail carrier's routes are a little longer than 5 minutes or 1.5 hours. I think most mail carriers also have the little problem of actually carrying the mail. So ignore the recharging rate (I keep seeing 6) - and are we to imagine our postal carriers will now work 1.5 on 2 off? Maybe ask if they can borrow your extension cord as they nap for a few hours?

And one final thing about the USPS. Carriers are in a union. Would you trade your comfortable little truck for a scooter where you would have to balance large packages on your head? As I do happen to know about this as my sister is an arbitrator for union worker cases against the USPS - they file grievances over a change in their chairs, they won't accept some stupid scooter (which again no one can explain why if this is so great they aren't currently using mopeds).

Chet

I already own an electric vehicle that goes 5 mph with a 1.5 hour battery life, has no cooling system, and is quite stable. It is my girls' Barbie Crusin' Tunes Jeep (tm). It is limited to 130 lbs, but that's nothing that $75 million in VC money couldn't fix!

I'm surprised the guy got so much funding. Leftovers from the technology boom maybe? Last I checked, VCs were pretty stingy about funding projects that didn't meet a critical market need. Sounds like a cool toy, but I don't see myself buying one anytime soon. Building one might be fun though. Too bad modern battery technology still sucks so badly. If I were handing out money, I'd invest it in developing better energy storage.

- Alan

"The example of postal workers works well here -- rather than buy, operate, and maintain a truck for a local route (a very expensive proposition over the long haul), why not use one of these doohickeys? It seems to be very simple, mechanically, which would likely mean less maintenance costs. And, let's not forget, no gasoline, which is a big deal if you're operating a fleet of these. "

Do postal workers in the US really deliver the mail using a TRUCK? What's wrong with a bike? The standard postal delivery person in New Zealand(postie!) uses a bicycle with pannier bags to deliver the mail. They get very fit!

As you are stopping and starting all the time going from letter box to letter box, a bicycle on the pavement makes a lot more sense than a bloody great truck! Do they really deliver the mail, even in the suburbs with a TRUCK. I can't beleive it!

The have pretty serious routes. And they'll cover several neighborhoods that are pretty far apart -- and miles from the post office. I don't think bikes would be very time-efficient.

So, yeah, they use a big ol' truck.

That and we get a lot of junk mail.

A lot of junk mail.

'For all I know, Chet IS the Postmaster General.'

Well, he does run the official gaming website of the USPS.

http://www.oldmanmurray.com/runyon.wcs

"The have pretty serious routes. And they'll cover several neighborhoods that are pretty far apart -- and miles from the post office. I don't think bikes would be very time-efficient.

So, yeah, they use a big ol' truck."

I'm really curious now. Do they stop and get out with a bag and deliver the mail to a few houses at a time, or do they stop at every single mailbox?

Now I come to think about it, i'm not sure how the postie's in NZ restock their bikes. Maybe they go back to the Post Office? Maybe they have a van to get between areas, which they restock from (although i've never seen one). Hmmmm i'll have to do some research now!

Depends on the route, typically. Usually, they don't have to get out of the truck. Our mailboxes are at the curb (don't know how it's done in other countries...Haven't travelled enough.) Most of the time, the guy on my route (who drives from the right side of the vehicle, instead of the usual left) just stops at every mailbox and sticks his arm out the window to drop the mail in the mailbox. Then he moves on to the next house. He doesn't usually spend more than 2-3 seconds per house, so it seems like a pretty efficient system, considering in that truck he can carry just about any size package, as well as TONS of mail.

"Our mailboxes are at the curb (don't know how it's done in other countries...Haven't travelled enough.) "

Fascinating, this is a big difference. In a newer suburb here the arrangement from the road is kerb (curb), grass berm, footpath (sidewalk), letterbox (mailbox). So you can't really deliver the post (mail) from a truck - unless you like running over small children.

I wonder what came first in the US, the position of the mailbox at the curb, or the use of a truck to deliver the mail?

As an aside, the different English words for the same thing above reminds me of a great Bill Bryson quote he used describing the difference in American and British english usage,

"In America, the US Postal Service delivers the mail, In Britain the Royal Mail delivers the post" :-)

In the ghetto by my house the carriers walk and deliver the mail to the door, going back to the truck to refill.

I my neighborhood they drive the truck (it is a very small truck) and deliver to the door.

Chet

---

Quote:

I wonder what came first in the US, the position of the mailbox at the curb, or the use of a truck to deliver the mail?

---

The good ol' USPS now requires new subdivisions to install "bank" mailboxes for each group of homes. These are the metal arrays of boxes, usually 5x4, and they are positioned at one of the main entrances to the neighborhood. Ours is three rows of three banks each, so about 180 boxes clustered together.

I've seen those. I'm sure glad that they haven't migrated us to them -- yet, at least. I'd hate to lose my own little personal mailbox for one of those corporate things.

Hey, maybe that's what the Segway is good for. Driving to the local mailbox bank to pick up your mail. :-)

Elliott

http://www.usps.gov/history/his1.htm

The history of the postal service is amazingly wierd.

They effectively ran a bank from 1910 to 1966.

'One such technology, however, remains only a footnote in the history of mail delivery. On June 8, 1959, in a move a postal official heralded as "of historic significance to the peoples of the entire world," the Navy submarine U.S.S. Barbero fired a guided missile carrying 3,000 letters at the Naval Auxiliary Air Station in Mayport, Florida. "Before man reaches the moon," the official was quoted as saying, "mail will be delivered within hours from New York to California, to Britain, to India or Australia by guided missiles." '

It's nice to keep your mail under lock and key, though.

"I wonder what came first in the US, the position of the mailbox at the curb, or the use of a truck to deliver the mail?"

Um, the truck.
You think the postman walks from the post office?

Here in my neighborhood the mailboxes are by our front doors. I sympathize with Michael Murphy. When it's 0 degrees I can get my mail simply by opening the door. It's the postman that has to walk to make it convenient for me.

Michael, your postman and his lazy curb delivery figures you for a chump!

-Andrew

Well the postman used to walk from the post office, back in the days before cars, I imagine.

"Well the postman used to walk from the post office, back in the days before cars, I imagine>"

You mean back when they were using guided missles for mail delivery?

"Well the postman used to walk from the post office, back in the days before cars, I imagine."

See there's this animal called a Horse. H0-R-SE. You can call it a horsey if you like, my daughter does and she's almost two. They used horseys before they had cars, y'see.

The average post office has a 10-15 mile coverage radius (non-urban), some small town one's are even larger. Thanks but my mail is late enough with them using motor vehicles!

-Andrew

Bill Bryson rocks.

My postal carrier parks at one point in the neighborhood and walks the block, then he's back in his truck and on his way to the next block. Our block is pretty sizeable, and on a fairly steep incline, so he get's plenty of exercise.

The incline part is what bothers me w/r/t postal use of the Segway. My neighborhood is fairly hilly, so I am imagining the charge time would drop drastically, even if part of the time the Segway is going downhill.

Maybe the idea is that they will load Segways onto their trucks and offload them when they hit the neighborhood, where they would go on foot anyway. That way they have limited mail to carry and cover more ground more quickly. Hmmm. The drawback here is that most of them shortcut across yards so I'm not sure how much time would actually be saved. Still, it's a thought. Perhaps the thing can be used in tandem with other forms of transportation until it further develops.

Supertanker, what does your postal carrier do with packages? Is there a larger lockbox for the whole community? I know some places do that, and the carrier just puts the key for that box in your personal box to let you know you have a package.

On a side note, I would like to see Segways used in the new UPS ad campaign with the elf who is Santa's shipping manager. I'd just love to see a bunch of elves tooling around on Segways delivering packages hither and yon.

Met K: Sorry about the sarcasm. I forget that doesn't always come across sometimes. Good rule of thumb with me, when in doubt don't take me seriously.

Amanpour

Actually yeah. Here we've got two large boxes for packages. When empty you leave the keys hanging from the lock. When you get something the key is left in your mail box (it's labeled to tell you which lockbox it goes to). Anything to big comes to the door.

Brad Grenz

Met K:
"The way you put it, you were talking as if you yourself were the Post Master General, Dean Kamen, The Lead Engineer On This Project, Boris Karlopf, President Bush, and God himself."

Re-read my post, and then try to argue this point again.

Met K:
"Next time you say something that conflicts with another person's opinion, such as 'Hey, I think the post office knows more about what they're ordering and how-to use it than you. Even tho I have no legitimate proof that they're actually buying these things, let alone the Post Master General is interested in them,' don't try and sound like you yourself know it all."

Well, once again, if you reread my post, I attributed this information to the article in Time. If you have reason to believe that Time flat out lied and made up the whole thing, I'd like to see *your* proof.

Met K:
"What articles were you reading? I read 6 hours as well."

And your source is? I'm not being snide, I really want to know.

Met K:
"It's fanboys like you and Amanpour who get me reeling in arguementative-fashion like this. "

Please locate the place in this thread where I admit my undying love for Ginger.

Chet:
"Nice to see how feeble your argument has become. You are now comparing it to your electric shaver. I saw that Norelco commercial where Santa rides his razor, I had no idea that was a viable means of travel."

Well, clearly. if Santa's using one for the mass transport of gifts, maybe the Post office should look into buying Norelco razors. Actually, my comment was mostly in jest (hence the smiley).

Chet:
"While I applaud you on the thoroughness of your marathon shave sessions. Most of us shave for 5 minutes. I think most mail carrier's routes are a little longer than 5 minutes or 1.5 hours. I think most mail carriers also have the little problem of actually carrying the mail. So ignore the recharging rate (I keep seeing 6) - and are we to imagine our postal carriers will now work 1.5 on 2 off? Maybe ask if they can borrow your extension cord as they nap for a few hours?"

Actually, my beard is pretty tough...
As for the Postal Workers, where I live the ones who deliver letters walk their beat and carry big bags. Those who have to deliver in hilly areas get a little push cart. The workers who deliver packages do so in a truck. As for the distance on one charge, can someone please get me the source on this??

Chet:
"And one final thing about the USPS. Carriers are in a union. Would you trade your comfortable little truck for a scooter where you would have to balance large packages on your head? As I do happen to know about this as my sister is an arbitrator for union worker cases against the USPS - they file grievances over a change in their chairs, they won't accept some stupid scooter (which again no one can explain why if this is so great they aren't currently using mopeds)."

Are you sure the Post Office isn't using mopeds in some parts of the country?

I know people used horsies before they used cars; I wasn't aware that mailmen (pony express excepted) used them generally.

Perhaps they did. I just remember reading something somewhere about how a mailman walked the distance to the moon (i.e. 250,000 miles) during their entire career. When do/did they do all this walking? To and from the truck/carriage/horsey/pony/chariot? I claim no knowledge of postal history but I always had the impression there were some mailmen, in small towns at least, who did their whole beat on foot.

gregbemis - you are missing the whole reason people are pissed at kamen. Read the news articles 'press releases' - and you tell me one hard number he ever presents. He doesn't.

The 1.5 hours comes after Diane Sawyer finally took a break from playing to do something newsy. She made him answer a question. As others have pointed out, he also said elsewhere it can do 12 mph and has a range of 12 miles. I will let you mull over the math for that one.

Why wouldn't he answer any questions? How fast can the fastest one go? Woah!!!! fast!!!

Why can't I go thru water. Hey now! You are just learning!!!!

How long does the battery last? (1st answer) all day! If you had a two mile commute, you could go to work and back and still go out to lunch!


When there is a new technical achievement, you see stats. This video card can push this many pixels or whatever, this car can get this many miles to a gallon, this walkie talkie has a range of 3 miles. It is not an aesthetic achievement, it is a scientific achievement, so he should be able to take numbers and compare them to some existing device to show how his is better.

Have you seen this anywhere? In any magazine? Out of his mouth? He wants us to think it is beyond comparison, but how is that? It is a method of transportation that uses two wheels. We have some of those. It uses an electric motor, we have some of those. If it was such a technical marvel, he would be coming forth with numbers to prove his case, instead he is selling this like an imac. Look how pretty and cool it is, there has been no improvement for pedestrians since the tennis shoe. Look at what he is saying, and then notice all of the things he isn't saying.

Chet

Seems to me Kamen's central premise is that it's silly to use a 4000 pound vehicle to travel two miles. In a way, he makes sense.

However, our cities have been engineered to accomodate the 4000 pound vehicles, so the Segway is a solution in search of a problem.

If Kamen could build a Way Back Machine and go back to 1904 and introduce the Segway to compete with the fledgling auto, maybe life would be quite different now. We've adopted the auto, though, and I can't imagine a 12MPH scooter that can't ride passengers and doesn't keep the driver warm in winter and cool in summer will ever be a mass market item. Get it down to $199 maybe and it might catch on with students, drunks who've had their licenses suspended, etc. Otherwise it will probably just be a geeky niche item.

Thanks for the info Chet. You're right about the lack of cold hard facts here. That's why I keep asking everyone where they're getting these numbers. I saw that bit on the Early Show as well and yes, it really was fluffy. But again, are you pissed a Kamen or the Media for hyping it (like they always do).

I guess where I'm coming from here is there seems to be a general feeling this guy came out of nowhere when in fact he has invented some truly amazing things, the home dialysis machine for example, that are actually useful. Shouldn't that count for something?

As for the post office, in densly packed areas they often do a whole lot of walking instead of "trucking". Sometimes they have a little push cart (remember the thing Newman used to push on Seinfeld? That's what I'm talking about, as it's an actual tool used by the USPS), sometimes they just carry the mail in a satchel like the paperboy (and refill from the truck occasionally).

It could be useful in such areas, where you're loading up a satchel and shuttling to and from large buildings. But that's a small segment of the populous. In my subdivision, the postal carrier uses a plymouth voyager (I assume it's her own, as it's maroon) to deliver.

It's not a world changer though, which was what some of the initial (months ago) claims were. "They'll design cities around it!" was one I kept hearing. Riiiiight. As far as being useable in places like New York City, whatever. The sidewalks are usually to crowded to gain any advantage of speed (you could move at a walking pace easily enough) and the streets are still too dangerous to use it there (bike couriers are a crazy breed), esp. if it has no brakes!

Are there applications for it? Sure. I could see using them to tool around malls or airports (like the luggage carts you rent, you could pay $2 to shuttle yourself from one end to the other, and avoid a long walk and/or waiting for a shuttle bus). Or Universities (it would be pretty nice to use as an on-campus mode of transport, security issues aside) and sprawling corporate campuses.

That said, it's no big deal. Much like an electric moped that you have to stand up to ride. Joy!

"I guess where I'm coming from here is there seems to be a general feeling this guy came out of nowhere when in fact he has invented some truly amazing things, the home dialysis machine for example, that are actually useful. Shouldn't that count for something?"

Yes, Greg, it should count for something. But the problem is: What exactly is the use of Ginger?

We have no cold hard facts, as Chet has pointed out, and we could argue back and forth all day about it's stats, but I don't think we want to do that. Instead, arguing about it's purpose would be best. What exactly is the use of Ginger?

All his other inventions did something great and marvelous to change the world. No hype behind them, just cold, hard, facts. They changed things.

This invention, it was all hype. No one knew what it was. It was pure hype. It still is pure hype. There's no facts, no one's saying anything solid. Why? Because they don't want to ruin the chance that people might actually see it as useless.

If Kamen had come out with a flying scooter, like from Back To The Future, then hell, yes, people wouldn't have to have facts. They'd ohhh and ahhh over the very fact that it hovers. But no, this is a stupid looking, heavy, slow, overhyped, innane scooter that frankly, no one knows the use of.

And by the way, as reply to your topic above about Time: Up until the early 70's or late 80's, Time was the least respected magazine in the entire world.

It started out as a yellow journalist publication, and is just now, _just now_ in the past two decades or so gaining any type of respect as being a decent news source.

I still, _still_ do not believe some of the tripe they print sometimes. And when they go out of their way to publicly hype a consumer product up, then I certainly _will not_ believe anything they say.

In fact, when it comes to science, I do not believe anything a mass-produced publication or TV show says. I wait for Popular Science or one of the many scientific publications to talk about it.

One thing that annoyed me was Kamen's comment on Good Morning America about walking. "You get out of your car, and your only mode of transportation is still walking."

Why is that bad? Why shouldn't people walk around a bit? Some cities like Manhattan and Paris are just made for walking. Sure it can be tiring, but it's also healthy. As an Angeleno, someone who does far too little walking, I fail to see the use of a device whose purpose is... what... to ferry us from our car to the office building? To let us move around in malls without actually exerting a single calorie?

I could see this thing having a use for the old and infirm. That's about it. Maybe I'm selling it short, but time will tell.

As for high-pedestrian-traffic cities like Manhattan, this thing would get murdered on the sidewalks anyway. Not only would you have no speed advantage riding a Segue down 5th Avenue, you'd probably end up getting trampled to death.

Offtopic, but I'm incredibly pissed about something in the latest Newsweek. They have a 5 page "Special Advertising Section" that is amounts to a long article about how great King Fahd of Saudi Arabia is. This was obviously paid for by Saudi Arabia, directly or indirectly.

Seems like absolutely the worst type of advertising a magazine like Newsweek should allow. That would be true even if King Fahd WAS a swell guy, which, most sources say, he isn't.

Reminds me of those faux previews Interplay used to publish in PCG and CGW, but this seems much worse.

-Andrew

Magazines do that all the time. National Geographic had one every other month back in the 1980s.

As long as it's marked advertising, though, I'm not sure what's so bad about it.

Nothing really, just idealism talking Jason. I understand the business end and that Newsweek's editorial staff has nothing to do with what the marketing dept. allows. But this sort of thing makes me idealistically wish for a red faced editor (with shirt sleeves rolled up) barging around in a cloud of cigar smoke and outrage. Pissed off that his pristine editorial space has been sullied so! Demanding a quick counter article to give the facts about Saudi Arabia and refute this outrageous breach of the public trust!!!

Why I'm mad as hell and I...

-Andrew

King Fahd should have taken out an ad about what a swell guy I am. It would have been far less inflammatory, and possibly have gotten me some dates... And while I'm nnot familiar with Newsweek's current advertizing rates are, but I'm quite sure I'm worth it.

Brad Grenz

I think it would actually look cooler to ride around on the back of Tim Curry dressed as a murderous clown, than to ride one of these things.

India.


Now, that you've all had a chance to go, 'what?', allow me to explain. India is perhaps the most polluted country in the world. The cities are incredibly horrible. Millions of people have chronic coughs, bronchitis, asthma(people w/ asthma number in the 100 mil), laryngitus, and other throat and lung diseaes. How bad is it? Once a year millions of people travel to a 'shrine' and let 'holymen' shove live guppies down their throats b/c they think it helps their throat problems. This is due to the extreme reliance on disel based cars, motorcycles, and scooters. The majority of people have only motorcycles and scooters, b/c cause they have little to carry, short distances to travel, and few large, broad, paved roads.

The Segway is practically created for this environment, it would be the perfect solution b/c A)it would be cheap(4 cents a day) and B)Clean.
The only problem is the initial cost. Personally I think the Indian gov't should buy these things in bulk, get them for cheap, and then sell them at a loss to the Indian public for $500. It would be a boon to India's environment and people's health.

I think the problem most people seem to have with the Segway is their incredibly American-centric viewpoint of it. Would this thing work in most of america? FUCK NO. But if the price comes down(notice I have stated this twice, so don't reply with 'it's too expensive!', post intelligently), would it work INCREDIBLY well in Third World countries, Asia, South America, and some European countries? HELL YEAH.

All in all, just IMHO.

"The Segway is practically created for this environment, it would be the perfect solution b/c A)it would be cheap(4 cents a day) and B)Clean.
The only problem is the initial cost. Personally I think the Indian gov't should buy these things in bulk, get them for cheap, and then sell them at a loss to the Indian public for $500. It would be a boon to India's environment and people's health."

Why not just buy them bicycles then? Even cheaper, even cleaner, and even healthier since it promotes exercise.

Bikes can even go faster too, and can be ridden for more than 1.5 hours a day.

I agree that the 3rd world is where this thing could take off, although indeed bicycles already perform that role to some extent.

Ummm, there has been one huge argument against using electric cars as a way to reduce polution: It doesn't work.

India has a lack of clean burning electrical plants. Their primary source of power is coal (not even that nice clean coal that is so en vogue in the U.S.) and oil. I believe they do have a few nuclear plants, but the nuclear non-prolifiration agreement forbid them from building any more. (on another side note: India brought in Enron to build all these power plants, then they nationalized them and didn't pay Enron, costing them billions...and the U.S. government did nothing about it).

So, when they are charging their scoot, er, Segway, they are just transfering the polution from their local transport (IE car or bus) to the power station. If India was running on solar, tidal, wind, and a bit of nuclear power, I could definantly get behind the idea of switching to all electric vehicles, but not now.

Would switching from diesel to electric reduce polution overall? A bit, most likely...but not enough to justify the Indian government buying 100 million of the things at $8,000 a pop. Wow, when I type that out, that's a whole lotta cash. $800 billion for scooters.

Everything about it seems so...unnecessary. Do I really need it to only have 2 wheels? Do I really need an encrypted 64 bit password to start it up? Does it really need to remove the brakes and steering? Nope. As a matter of fact, it would be much more efficient if it wasn't trying to be so revolutionary. Add a wheel, brakes, and manual steering and you remove the 10 processors and the gyroscopes, making it much more power efficient. The 64 bit encryption could be replaced by a bicycle chain. A 3rd wheel and the increased power supply would let it do many things the Segway can't do: go up long ramps and through puddles.

Oh well. Here's hoping this gyroscopic stabilizing brings them one step closer to them building me my own personal Battlemech. Now there's something I would spend good money to replace my car with.

---

Quote:

I think the problem most people seem to have with the Segway is their incredibly American-centric viewpoint of it. Would this thing work in most of America? FUCK NO. But if the price comes down(notice I have stated this twice, so don't reply with 'it's too expensive!', post intelligently), would it work INCREDIBLY well in Third World countries, Asia, South America, and some European countries? HELL YEAH.

---

Here's a guy trying to pimp a device that removes the annoying "walking" from the lives of a nation of overweight, lazy people.

I've changed my mind. IT's going to be a HUGE success, and he's a genius.

*sigh*

I think, more importantly, he's trying to help developing countries evolve into nations of overweight, lazy people. A far loftier goal.

Amanpour

"Why doesn't ed beagly drive his electric car over to India"

That's Ed Begley, JUNIOR, son. JUNIOR! Don't make me give you a spanking.

Ed Begley Jr.: "I prefer to use vehicles that don't poison Mother Earth."

Homer: "What's that?"

Ed: "It's a go-cart powered by my own sense of self-satisfaction."

/Ed drives off at high speed...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't wait until they use this self-balancing funciton to come out with REAL MECHs!!! Then the armed forces will create the United States Mech Force, USMF. And this segway technology will bring in billions in defense contracts.

Or not.

"Here's hoping this gyroscopic stabilizing brings them one step closer to them building me my own personal Battlemech."

Amen brother!

"Or not."

Definitely not, but there's nothing wrong with dreaming... :)

On a side note, the other day I saw the South Park episode that parodies this thing. I really, really, really wish I hadn't...

But it was Hilarious!

Just saw this funny tidbit on techtv.

Kamen now admits that at best, he thinks most people will get 10-11 miles a day out of the segway. That means your maximum commute can only be 5 miles.

One of the cities he says is looking into it to help with congestion and I guess commuter traffic is Atlanta. Their avg commute is 37 miles.

I searched google looking for average daily commutes and could not find one city with commutes under 20 miles, most around 30 or above.

Maybe this is what he meant by they would redesign cities for it. He expects everyone to move out of the suburbs and within 2 miles of work just so they can ride their bright shiny scooter to work.

When the announcer/news chick, mentioned the distance one could travel, she then went on to mention how everyone will soon be using these to commute. Can you really buy an entire nation of newscasters by just offering them free rides on a scooter? I think I am going to run for president and give a pony rides to Dan Rather, that should tie it up for me.

Chet

Yeah, it's stupid. I almost wish this was some kind of well-financed hoax.

But at least one good thing could come of this: people will at least remember there actually ARE other ways to get to work than their own big ass honkin' SUV.

Like my car, which I drive to give me ph@t credentials in fruity debates like this:

http://www.honda2001.com/models/insight/index.html

I think you could get those same credentials by ordering drinks with umbrellas or by owning a toy poodle.

Chet

The people who live downtown do that. Different methods are needed in the suburbs.

My dream has always been to have an electric car and a solar garage. Plug the car in when I get home and the garage uses the sun to recharge it. The garage is hooked into the home electric grid, so during the day it helps to power the house with excess power going into batteries in the house. If there isn't enough sun to charge the car it draws power from the house.

Charted it out one day and figured it would cost roughly $5,000 for the solar cells, the batteries, and having it hooked into the home grid. That doesn't count the cost of the imaginary electric car.

Still, I would be willing to spend the money to add it into a new home when I have one built.

This actually does have quite the military potential. One of the harder problems to solve on the modern battlefield is how to keep footsoldiers up close with tanks. It couldn't be used for an all day solution, obviously, but for the half hour maneuver that's done before contact it would be pretty effective. The soldier wouldn't have to concentrate on driving. Add in the force 21 package, where they are using lazer guided rifles aimed through computer scopes, and again you would have a pretty effective urban combat scenario. They would be moving fast enough to make sniping a bit more difficult, able to respond to threats faster. A faster response time in an urban situation would be a big deal.

Ok guys, here's my revolutionary idea that will change the world. You heard it here first.

You hook up all those exercycles and stairmasters at Bally Fitness clubs to power generators, then sell it off at a tidy profit. Think of all the energy that could be generated by all those folks burning off calories... and right now it's just going to waste!

Or, you could have the domestic Power-Exercycle model. A half-hour's strenuous exercise in the morning generates all your home's power for the entire day! Just like that scene in Soylent Green where the guy pedals a stationary bike to power a light bulb.

I'll be expecting royalty checks, now.

You're right, this does have military potential. Any enemy that saw an army riding towards it on these would be immobilized with laughter. This effect was achieved in 1991 when the Italian wing of the Gulf War coalition road into Khalazin on Mopeds.

'This actually does have quite the military potential. One of the harder problems to solve on the modern battlefield is how to keep footsoldiers up close with tanks. '

Isn't that why they use jeeps and personal carriers? Oh thats right, those have that pesky armor that takes all the fun out of it. Who knows, load some armor up on these and maybe you could get 10 ft per charge.

Chet

Segway could be successful at trade shows, where it's tiring to hike all over huge convention halls. Pasty gamers might be a real hit with the booth babes if they had the scooter.