So, I started up a game in the Arcanum demo, which gives you most of the character creation options found in the full version (you can't be female, but other than that, it looks to be complete, minus maybe some portraits), and I've gotta say that I'm very impressed. It actually reminded me of Ultima Online, which I loved the character creation in. I'd like to see this kind of character creation in more games. Spectacular.

Any games out there with exception character creation that I need to look into?

Any thoughts?

Daggerfall has the best character creation of them all. The downside is that it's Daggerfall. It's fun to play around with for a week or so, though.

I'm really disappointed with the number of portraits in Arcanum. There are only four portraits for each gender/race combination... that's just not enough. Not to mention all the humans look absolutely stupid.

Heh. Well, okay then, the demo does give you the full number of portraits then. You're right -- that's not enough. You can import your own, I understand, but you shouldn't have to. They should give you more choices. You can play a female in the full version, right??

I agree that all the humans looked kinda dumb, but I did like how the half-orcs and such looked. The portraits didn't look overly cartoonish, considering that we had half-elves and half-orcs and such. Pretty impressive how real they looked, I thought.

ACtually the best character creation or progression ive seen in a crpg is with the roguelike Ancient Domains of Mystery. it really has the most in depth level/skill based system ive seen in a crpg. And it was all done by one guy!

etc

Portraits? You're joking, right? And I'm not getting it?

One of the best role-playing games ever for character creation was GDW's Traveller, because your character could actually die while you were generating him. Or at least that's what I'm told by some guys, since I don't know a lot about this "role-playing" stuff.

Bruce, portraits are absolutely crucial. It's the big secret to RPG reviewing actually. They are at least as important as those "unit" things you wargamers are always on about.

-Andrew
PS: Your friends are right about Traveller. You had to send your character on tours of duty and training in the military branch of your choice. There was a chance they wouldn't come back. Brutal. If they didn't you had to play the role of grieving mother or father. Hardcore.

---

Quote:

Portraits? You're joking, right? And I'm not getting it?

---

No, I was reacting to this comment by Tom:

"I'm really disappointed with the number of portraits in Arcanum."

I honestly thought this was a joke, until Bub explained it was a Very Serious Criticism. I mean, who cares what the portraits look like, right? Right?

Oh, Bruce, you have so much to learn about role-playing.

The ideal role-playing game would have photographs of every person alive, as well as a zillion and one fabrications to choose from, so your character can look EXACTLY how you want him/her to. :-)

Really, though, four isn't enough. I'd never knock it much in a review for that (maybe 1/8 a star!), but it would have been nice to have a few more.

Well Bruce, in all semi-seriousness, in a RPG like Baldur's Gate, you've got to look at those portraits for hours on end. A choice that doesn't look nice to you, look "right" for the character you're trying to play, over the long-long-long term, can be annoying in that way, I suppose.

I think it's fair to say if you're going to insist on a portrait interface for your RPG - you better offer a wide assortment of high quality pictures to choose from. It's a superfluous issue of course. But if one is to properly portray an elf, one wants that elf to look like a cool elf.

-Andrew

That's a lost cause on Bruce -- a "cool elf?" :-)

Portraits are important. I always think the ones that come with a game are stupid. And I don't know where to find cool ones to import. I've cropped some Yoshitaka Amano art to use before, but the style is completely divergent from most games.

Portraits make or break a game! If it weren't for those hotty portraits of Jaheira, Viconia and MAzzy in BG2 i dont know what my right hand would do... uhhhhh i mean, i think portraits are overrated.

etc

Isn't your right hand on the mouse??

Anyhoo -- I think Brad said it best: If you're gonna have portraits, have lots of them. If it's a feature you choose to have, fully implement it. Sure, in terms of features, it's relatively low on the "importance" list, but if a company is going to do it, they should do it right.

I do think portraits can add to the characterization of your player. Honestly, it did help the BG games to see those portraits, the best being in BG2 imo ... i mean i wouldnt call it the feature i want the most, but its something that does add to atmosphere and rpg flavor. And plus all the Infinity Engine crpg portraits are awesome! Also, Arcanums fit it perfectly though they do lack variety, but there are a number for each race that should fit a certain dispostion of character type. Meaning, they had a certain look and style for each portrait that you could fit the personality too. The portrait of Magnus fit perfectly imo! Magnus the Dwarf wannabee! imo, Magnus was my fave character and voice in Arcanum!

etc

btw, Brad, who is Yoshi Amano? Is he any good?
Does he do fantasy art? maybe ishould just look him up in google i suppose ...

etc

Daggerfall just had an Ultima rip-off character creation. It took it to the next logical step by letting you skip the "questions" part and just customize if you want, but personally I always enjoyed the Ultima method. You don't pick a class, you just answer a series of questions to which there are no right answers, and that determines your starting abilities.

For all its other faults, I like the way Ultima 9 started out. (Hell, I like a LOT of things U9 did, despite a sea of other faults.) You're just immediately in the game, no options or nothin'. You're introduced to the interface in a logical and familiar environment of an earth home, and then you do the gypsy thing to get your starting abilities before being swept off to Brittania.

I'm with you Jason -- if only Origin had spent a couple more months polishing that game, and could have released it in a stable condition. It certainly had a lot going for it.

One of the best role-playing games ever for character creation was GDW's Traveller, because your character could actually die while you were generating him. Or at least that's what I'm told by some guys, since I don't know a lot about this "role-playing" stuff.


PS: Your friends are right about Traveller. You had to send your character on tours of duty and training in the military branch of your choice. There was a chance they wouldn't come back. Brutal. If they didn't you had to play the role of grieving mother or father. Hardcore.


Didn't Twilight 2000 do this sort of thing as well? I remember a friend of mine playing the PC version awhile back, intent on creating a "James Bond" type character (spy, ladies' man, etc.), so as the first step of character creation, he named him "LeBeau".

Unfortunately, during the skills/training phase, he got extremely lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you look at it), and was able to go through an insane number of training periods before war broke out (i.e. the game started). The upshot of this is that LeBeau, the ladies' man, was something like 70 years old when the game started. Doh!

Yoshitaka Amano has done a bunch of character design work on the Final Fantasy games. His official website is at:

http://www.amanosworld.com/

I've got folders and folders of his art for the various games and I'll crop and resize a picture of Cyan from FF6, for example, and create a swordsman using the portrait. Or Zidane from FF9, and make a theif. I think the portraits offered in games like BG 1&2 look great, they're just never how I picture my guy or gal. Those in Arcanum have a cool style too, but there's just no variety. No real reason to pick one over another.

Brad Grenz
-i wish i was a super-fly artist

Boris Vallejo has some nice fantasy stuff that I've seen used for BG1&2, if you're looking for portraits...I mean, his stuff isn't necessarily portraits, but he's got some very usable stuff, for those of you who are looking...

Something I've seen in some games is the ability of the title to generate portraits by combining traits and blending images. Gangsters did a pretty decent, if uninspired, job of this while Squad Leader did a crappy job with terrible art - not shocking considering the source.

That's certainly something I'd like to see in future roleplaying games - being able to futz around with mugshots, like a forensic artist, until I get my character just the way I envision him.

"Honestly, it did help the BG games to see those portraits, the best being in BG2 imo ... i mean i wouldnt call it the feature i want the most, but its something that does add to atmosphere and rpg flavor. And plus all the Infinity Engine crpg portraits are awesome!"

You're right. The best part about them is how well each set of portraits "fit" the particular game. BG1's was medieval 'high-fantasy', IWD had a darker setting (and music to match), BGII had a more mystical eastern feel, and PS:T was just plain kooky. The portraits released for each game fit perfectly.

"ACtually the best character creation or progression ive seen in a crpg is with the roguelike Ancient Domains of Mystery. it really has the most in depth level/skill based system ive seen in a crpg. And it was all done by one guy!"

I've never seen so many possible race/class combinations. This is especially nice because your choice would greatly effect gameplay. Character progression? I never lived long enough to progress anything.

"One of the best role-playing games ever for character creation was GDW's Traveller, because your character could actually die while you were generating him. Or at least that's what I'm told by some guys, since I don't know a lot about this "role-playing" stuff."

That's true. I liked classic Traveller's character creation quite a bit. You played out your career in the military (or as a merchant, or whatever), and that determined what skills were available to you. System Shock 2 borrowed heavily from that system (and it worked well there, too).

"But if one is to properly portray an elf, one wants that elf to look like a cool elf."

Ha's! So true. Bruce obviously doesn't understand what makes an RPG important to us. But maybe we need to project more of our imagination onto them? I like to look like an elf, but if a game doesn't let me look like one I will just pretend so! You should see the pointy ears of Max Payne in my head!

Greetz