Creativity is strong with this one?
The Link: http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&obj_id=28398&type_id=270285&cat_id=270338&sub_id=0
Star Wars Episode II's title "announced".
"Attack of the Clones"
Why not "Send in the Clones"?
Weird Al is going to have an easy time with this one.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Monday, August 6, 2001 - 11:52 pm:
But you guys can't tell me that the idea of watching the Jedi fight in the Clone Wars doesn't appeal to you all...Personally, I'm looking forward to this movie. A lot. You can bet I'll be there opening weekend. (Though not standing in line overnight for opening day tickets.)
By Bub (Bub) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 12:43 am:
I'll be there Michael! With bells on! (Only without any bells.) I just think the title is a bit... stinky.
Still, I wasn't, and am not, too hot for the title "The Phantom Menace" either.
By Aszurom (Aszurom) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 12:55 am:
Mace Windu's Lines in EP2:
"Darth Sideous threw Boba Rockyhorror out the window for givin' Amidala a damn FOOT MASSAGE?! Man, that shit just ain't right."
"Do they speak Bocce on WHAT?! Say what again, I double sith dare you!"
"Does Jabba look like a bitch? WELL?! Then why'd you try to..."
"You're gonna reach in that bag and hand me back my lightsabre. It's the one that says..."
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 12:55 am:
Granted, their titling skills are a little rusty...Thought I didn't TPM was too bad of a title -- nothing like "the old days," though.
I agree that "Attack of the Clones" is a bit of a let-down, but...Oh, well. You know the old saying "Never judge a book by its cover..."
I really think it'll be a good movie. But I didn't have a big problem with TPM, either, so maybe I'm the wrong guy to comment...
By Jason McCullough on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 01:59 am:
'But you guys can't tell me that the idea of watching the Jedi fight in the Clone Wars doesn't appeal to you all...Personally, I'm looking forward to this movie. A lot. You can bet I'll be there opening weekend. (Though not standing in line overnight for opening day tickets.)'
I have no urge to watch this movie whatsoever. Maybe if reviews come out calling it the best thing to ever grace the screen, I'll go watch it.
It'll take something *that* good to make up for the destruction of fond childhood memories that the last movie was. "Hey, guess what! Now everyone in Star Wars is a two-bit racial stereotype, the writing is crap, the actors can't convincingly act with the bluescreening, and we blew our special effects budget on reflective surfaces for droids that are on the screen for 3 seconds! The protagonist is now disinterested and acts the entire thing in cereal-commercial style! Did we mention that the only vaguely interesting thing in the entire movie, the neato looking bad guy, has three lines of dialog and dies in a gory manner entirely inconsistent with whatever 'Star Wars' ethos there is?"
Slave-Owning Fly = Jewish money-grubber. Trade Federation = Kooky, crafty Japanese. Jar Jar = African-Americans, right down to the Sambo-style mannerisms. I'm sure I missed a couple more.
I can't believe that the man responsible for Empire has fallen so far. George Lucas can go fuck himself. Sure, Jedi & A New Hope weren't quite as good due to his closer involvement, but it's like he's been replaced by clones.
Wow, I've *really* worked myself into a fit of anger writing this post. Whew.
Anyway, TPM was a movie that covered the superficial trappings of Star Wars (space battles, kooky-looking aliens, simple plot) while completely missing the reason people, kids included, really liked the first movies. You know: non-kiddy humor. A vaguely complicated plot with all sorts of *issues*. A wonderful little world black and white in some ways, grey in others, with lots of detail to play out hero fantasies with.
Instead, Lucas gave us a Fifth Element sequel.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.
By Rob Funk (Xaroc) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 10:44 am:
Jason, try some decaf. ;)
I know, I am an asshole. But it had to be said. :)
By TomChick on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 01:11 pm:
I'm with Jason 110%. I am officially done with the Star Wars universe. Lucas never was a good director. Yeah, yeah, the first one was an important part of my childhood. I love X-Wing Alliance and Jedi Knight up one side and down the other. But as far as I'm concerned, the rest of the mythos can just go on without me.
Naboo. Gungan. Midichlorians. Jedi tricorders. Trade Federations. C-3P0 is Luke's brother. Tow-headed kid Darth. And now
"Attack of the Clones"? Fuck it. All of it.
By Mark Asher on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 01:36 pm:
Heh heh -- ah, I love righteous indignation.
I started losing interest back in the second movie when we found out Darth was Luke's father. I knew then that Lucas was a hopeless hack when it came to writing, though that was evident even throughout the first movie. The third movie was terrible, although I liked the initial scenes where Han Solo was rescued, but the rest was downhill from there.
So, I count 1.5 good movies out of the 4 so far. And frankly, the original doesn't hold up all that well. I saw it with my kids when it was re-released a few years ago and I yawned throughout. I can still watch North by Northwest and not be bored, but I doubt I'll ever want to see Star Wars again.
By Jason Levine on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 01:49 pm:
I thought that Empire Strikes Back was by far the best of the four movies thus far. It's probably no accident that it wasn't directed by Lucas.
By Jason Lutes on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 01:59 pm:
Yeah, count me among the disinterested too. I stopped caring with Return of the Jedi, and passed on Phantom Menace because I knew it would just piss me me off (but I love the title because it's goofy and sounds so much like an old serial).
Lucas will have to do a lot of growing up and serious self-reflection before I look at anything he does again. I agree with Tom, though: the good SW games still work for me.
After many years, I saw SW again recently too, Mark, and was stunned by the tinny hollowness of the thing, despite all of my childhood nostalgia for it. It was clear to me in a way it hadn't been before how derivative it was of Lucas' own favorite genres: samurai, WWII, western, etc. I still have some affection for the old thing, but I can't imagine watching it again either.
By Gordon Berg on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 02:11 pm:
"I thought that Empire Strikes Back was by far the best of the four movies thus far. It's probably no accident that it wasn't directed by Lucas."
The direction was fine, but what made Empire Strikes Back so good was because of who wrote it: Lawrence Kasdan.
Oh, how far we've fallen.
By Thierry Nguyen on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 02:32 pm:
The best Star Wars movie is still the original: The Hidden Fortress.
By Bill Hiles on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 02:34 pm:
Yeah, I'm more jazzed about The Lord of the Rings anyway. Peter Jackson ain't no George Lucas. Thank God.
By Jason McCullough on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 03:01 pm:
Yeah, I don't think the Star Wars series is really a "good" movie for anyone but kids. For kids, though, the series was probably the best epic you could get in that generation. For adults, I think Empire is the only one that's actually watchable if you don't have the history of having it imprinted on you as a kid.
What I can't figure out is why anything seriously thinks kids will talk about TPM in 20 years the way 20-30-somethings talk about the old movies today. Sure, it's *kind* of the same thing, and you can directly compare the I to IV in cheeseball factor, but there's so much missing. Harrison Ford, for one.
Anyway, back to the racial angle: I was thinking about it, and I think you can excuse Binks and the hook-nose fly. They just had some characteristics, which unless you're *really* charitable, are flamingly racist. I can kind of excuse that, though, maybe Lucas wrote it after head trauma.
The one I can't figure out is the Trade Federation. Not only do they act like Godzilla movie extras (there's a very muppet-like scene of them flailing around towards the end of the movie), they talk with an asian accent. How could you *possibly* not notice what you're doing then? All they're missing is a furniture-sale-tv-ad-style "KOOKY CONNIVING JAPS!" blink every time they're on screen. That they're trying to destroy the good guys by manipulating trade (did Lucas write this in 87?) is almost like he's daring us to call him on it. "Well, I suppose I could put Jar Jar in blackface, but this is good enough."
By Gordon Berg on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 03:57 pm:
But your point isn't the actual use of the accent itself, is it? After all, every Empire pseudo-Nazi in IV-VI had a British accent and no one cried foul over that. Perhaps it should have been German instead? (And as far as manipulation of trade, well, that kind of label can be slapped on several cultures).
Regardless, I'm not defending Lucas' unimaginative choices. He's got a whole universe to play with and he falls back on what can be argued as a poor choice of lazy stereotypes instead of creating something new - or at least do a better job of disguising it.
Getting back to the movie: For a long time, I've always been curious about the throw away line "You helped my father during the Clone Wars" from the first movie and now I'm frightened I might actually find out.
(I wonder if any of that clone stuff from the Zahn novels will match up with the Episode II. Anyone know if there are rigid continuity checks in the Star Wars universe?)
By Bill Hiles on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 04:23 pm:
Well, if we are to believe that George Lucas was heavily influenced by Joseph Campbell then perhaps the stereotypes in the film were a result of Lucas' poor (or maybe dumbed down) interpretation of archtypes (see Hero with a Thousand Faces, et al.). Then again maybe Lucas was just being lazy. Broad strokes. Cliches. Generalizations. Hey, just like the writing in Max Payne. LOL
By Bub (Bub) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 04:30 pm:
Ah, Lucas' evil British stereotype. Who could be offended by that? Actually, seriously, who could? I can see being offended by Binks and the other characters, but *offended* by Tarkin? I want to be that Grand Moff baby! Wonderful character, even if he is the villain.
Also... I doubt Lucas is going to feel beholden to Zahn's work Gordon.
By Jason McCullough on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 05:18 pm:
The point I was trying to make the end result of combining an asian accent with an asian caricature is a lot worse than using either seperately; it becomes less of an archetype and more of a specific insulting example. I think. Yeah.
By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 05:24 pm:
I wonder if all you guys here bitching about how all the movies suck, and you're not interested in them anymore, are going to bitch about how much Episode II sucks immediately following its release? You know, when you dutifully shell out $8 to see the film you have no interest in anymore? =)
I mean, you guys are obviously interested enough to spout (sometimes profusely) in message boards about it. And sometimes get emotionally worked up about it.
That doesn't sound like people who don't care about Star Wars anymore to me. Poeple who don't care about something just ignore it.
Me? I think most of the movies are, on an objective level, just "so-so." I think they're not nearly as bad as the fans say (I could show you some BAD movies, lemme tell ya). But I freely admit to being compelled by the "Star Wars-ness" of it and I'll fully admit to being anxious to see Episode II, rediculously stupid title and all. I'm not saying I expect it to be great, but I *HOPE* it is and I'm insanely curious regardless.
I mean, I expected X-Men to suck, and it was pretty good.
By Bill Hiles on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 06:15 pm:
Yeah they do care. They care a lot. When that happens you're going to get frustrated and angry when you think the thing you love is being turned into a pale imitation of itself. SW isn't just a series of movies. It's part of our cultural mythology (a culture that's pretty short on mythologies). It's also a part of many folk's life history--especially those who were there when IV opened in 1977--and it's become a generational experience. It's not X-Men (didn't suck but was kinda just "there". Unbreakable, to me, was a better "comic book" film). It's not Jurassic Park. Hell, it's not even James Bond.
When talking about SW, far and above other films--good, bad or indifferent--we're bringing a lot of baggage to the conversation.
By BobM on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 06:25 pm:
Just wait till everyone finds out they hired 5000 Japanese males to play the clones.
By Aszurom (Aszurom) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 07:14 pm:
Well... I think Lucas missed a good chance in EP:I by calling Kenobi "Obi Wan". He should have had him referred to only as "Ben". The reasoning?
Well, we're about to embark upon the "clone wars". That means Jedi (who have midichlorians in abundance... that's why we clone THEM instead of other people. And hell, let's genetically engineer them to be uber Jedi while we're at it.) Now, if you're going to clone up an army of Jedi you need a pool of genes. Ben Kenobi, step right up.
OB-1. OB-2. OB-3. Ob-4. Roll them right off the assembly line. OB-1 is the original Ben (or is he?) and the OB clone designation gets bastardized into "Obi" thus he's "Obi One"... or Obi Wan.
I dunno. I can write better than Lucas without trying too hard.
By Jason McCullough on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 07:18 pm:
Aszurom, some of us are dorks enough to know that you weren't the original person to come up with that theory. :)
By Erik on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 08:10 pm:
Seriously, man. I'm just a casual star wars fan, and *I've* heard that theory. On the other hand, since all you have to do is write 'BEN KENOBI OB-1' into the little box at the top of www.google.com to return about 150 web pages dealing with your idea, I at least agree that you didn't have to try too hard.
By kazz on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 10:32 pm:
Well...As bad as Star Wars has gone, it's still not as bad as what happened to Jaws (which came out just a year before, I think). That movie had EVERYONE afraid of the water. What happened? Jaws: The revenge. Good Lord. If there'd been nudity involved I'da thought it was a Kubrick movie.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 11:42 pm:
Well, AT THE VERY LEAST, I'm eager to see the Jedi fighting in Ep. II. I thought that they did wonderful things with the Jedi, making them far cooler than I expected. Seeing them large-scale in battle should be cool. I think it's gonna be a lot more "action oriented" than Ep. I. The action that was there was cool, I thought, and look forward to more of that in Ep. II. But, then, they haven't made one yet that I didn't enjoy. So I guess I'm wierd. Maybe I just don't "analyze" as much as the rest of you guys. The "obvious racial stereotypes" have never even crossed my mind, and I've never been bothered by the script, acting, or Jar-Jar Binks. I just sit down to enjoy the movie, and every time has delivered that. I expect Ep. II will, as well, and then III after that.
Maybe the "nostalgia" aspect doesn't hit me as hard, because I never saw them in the theatres until the re-releases, being younger than a lot of you. Or, maybe I'm just more forgiving of movies than you guys.
By Bub (Bub) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 11:53 pm:
have you seen Duality yet? Pretty impressive stuff for a small group of kids and a powerful Mac.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Tuesday, August 7, 2001 - 11:56 pm:
Negative -- I'll add that to my ever-growing list of must-see movies.
By Thierry Nguyen on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 12:19 am:
San Diego Comic Con had a clip of what was described as an amazingly kickass Jedi fighting scene with the words "gladiatorial arena", "Samuel L. Jackson" and "shitload of droids and jedi" used liberally.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 12:38 am:
I wonder if any of that clone stuff from the Zahn novels will match up with the Episode II. Anyone know if there are rigid continuity checks in the Star Wars universe?
No, my point Murph was that Lucas might have authorized Zahn... but I doubt Lucas is going to adhere to stuff Zahn came up with. I mean if he wants to do something else. Like add concepts like midichloreons or what-not. He'll probably just consider all those books he licensed to be apocryphal (as I do). Jeez, he also licensed those Marvel comics with the giant green anthropomorphic rabbit guy on Tatooine!
Please don't bring up Tolkien, from what I've read he'd have *never* allowed licensed books in his continuity.
Duality can be found at Force.net I believe. It's a home-made 15 minute movie featuring two dark Jedi apprentices fighting for the/an Emperor type figure. The fighting is fairly good, but the CGI is amazing... considering it was indeed home made. There's also some really nice details and a killer ending (watch through the credits).
It's a big download, but worthwhile.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 01:08 am:
When I brought up Tolkein, I just meant the working knowledge he had of his universe. I understand that he had entire languages and histories made up, even though we only got snippets in his books. Still, it was all crafted in his mind. He was perhaps the most *thorough* author I know of. Lucas has a similar "big picture" idea -- not to say that he's never been known to throw something in and incorporate it later, but he's been pretty good in terms of consistency, even with the books. I don't recall ever hearing about midichlorians until TPM, either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he hasn't been thinking of them all along, and just not discussed them until TPM -- keep in mind, Luke knew very little of *how* things worked, and Yoda discussed them on a very need-to-know basis, possibly due to Luke being "too old." Or, maybe he just thought "Yeah, that'd be cool -- let's add that" while writing the script for Ep. I. I guess, ultimately, only he knows.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 01:59 am:
And, hey, I just watched Duality. Yup -- pretty cool. VERY impressive for 2 guys and a Mac. Thanks, Bub!
By Jason McCullough on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 02:10 am:
'Well, AT THE VERY LEAST, I'm eager to see the Jedi fighting in Ep. II. I thought that they did wonderful things with the Jedi, making them far cooler than I expected. Seeing them large-scale in battle should be cool.'
The fight scenes and explosions in Ep. I really didn't do anything for me. Edelstein over at Slate pointed out something I hadn't thought of in his very-mean review, which I think explains why I didn't like them all that much:
'In come the battle droids and out come the light sabers, which still hum like faulty fluorescents. Clack, clack, clack. Lucas can't edit fight scenes so that they're fluid--he cuts on the clack.'
Maybe what makes fight scenes exciting, I think, is when there's very, very little in the way of cuts. Dunno, I haven't thought about it overmuch, and I don't want to start up dueling reviewers again, either.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 02:28 am:
Okay -- all valid points, I suppose. Personally, I loved the fight scenes. I had never notices particularly bad timing on the cuts, but I'll take your word for it, and I'll watch for it next time I see the movie. Just the same, I thought the fight scenes were incredibly fluid -- especially when compared to the "fight scenes" in Ep. 4-6, which has to make me wonder when they started to suck so much as "fighters" when they used to be so good. (No, nobody has to address that point -- I know the answer.) Explosions are explosions -- but a good lightsaber duel? Those are few and far between. And when Darth Maul (dumb name, flat character, but not an altogether BAD villain, though he's no Vader) pulled out the double-ended lightsaber (yes, I'd seen it in previews, but it was still cool) -- well, I loved it. Every minute of it. I thought the fights were incredible.
But, you're right. There's little point to arguing it here. (So don't ask me why I have been doing so all night!) I'm sorry you were disappointed. I wasn't, and I look forward to the upcoming films. I enjoy them, and that's all I look for in a movie.
Hmm...I think I like parentheses a bit too much...
By Bub (Bub) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 02:40 am:
What made that sword fight great for me was the somewhat cheesy, but well-used hook of using those cycling barriers. And having the three Jedi reacting differently to them (Obi standing ready like an anxious kid, Qui-Gonn meditating, and Maul pacing like a tiger). Also, as a former fight choreographer, the scenes were well staged (maybe not well-filmed). Particularly the way each combatant used their bodies' strengths and weaknesses.
Obi-Wan, a mid-sized character fought using a non-flashing basic long sword style.
Maul, a short character, fought with a perfect combination of a martial arts and quarterstaff style. He oozed speed and mastery.
Neeson, a tall long-limbed character fought in a two-handed broadsword style, with quick and overpowering slashes. Yet Neeson always kept him calm.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 03:36 am:
I've never put my finger on it before, but I think you've found what I enjoyed about it, too. And I loved seeing how the force was incorporated into the fighting -- from the force push to the opening of the doors. And the quickness -- battles were so much faster-moving than in Episodes IV-VI. Those, coupled with Qui-Gon pushing his lightsaber through the blast doors at the beginning, just made the Jedi seem so much more powerful than they had ever been before.
By Jason McCullough on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 03:48 am:
I'll agree, technically the fighting was impressive, due to all the details you've mentioned (style tailored to the individual's personality and body type, etc.) I just don't think that necessarily makes it enjoyable.
I wouldn't call the fighting in 4-6 good at all, though; the only interesting parts to watch there were always due to some enormous emotional bit going on in the background, not the fighting itself. I think.
By Bub (Bub) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 03:55 am:
Admittedly, Jason, Prowse and Guiness are a bit stiff in Star Wars. But Alec was what? 70? And Hamill and Prowse are hardly professional combatants in Empire, but that was still a pretty damn good fight by my estimation.
Episode 1 was much more creative and professional as a choreographed scene (Thank God for Hong Kong's contribution to filmed fight choreography) but I ADORE the part in Empire where Luke hits Vader's shoulder and the sparks fly. And when Vader basically goes nuts in response. The "Vader leaping as giant bat" moment is pretty fantastic too.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 04:00 am:
I'll agree that Empire, and at times Return of the Jedi, had some good fight scenes. But, for the most part, Andrew, you hit it right on the head. They seemed very stiff in Episodes 4-6. Maybe that's why I enjoyed the fighting in TPM so much. They seemed like they actually knew what they were doing. Of course, isn't Ray Park a multi-level black belt in several different fighting styles? I think he helped choreograph the scenes, too. I do know one thing: He was pretty darn impressive.
By Bub (Bub) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 04:13 am:
"They seemed very stiff in Episodes 4-6."
They were, actually, very good for their time. At least they were according to the professionals I worked with. 4-6 were choregraphed by the guy who trained the guy who trained me (and many others at the same time). Peter Diamond. The guy who trained me worked on Highlander and, my favorite, The Princess Bride, but he wasn't in charge of either pic.
"Of course, isn't Ray Park a multi-level black belt in several different fighting styles?"
"I think he helped choreograph the scenes, too."
I believe so.
By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 04:22 am:
They were, actually, very good for their time.
The guy who trained me worked on Highlander and, my favorite, The Princess Bride
All the sword fights discussed in this thread were wonderful, but for my money, the best was filmed over 60 years ago: The climactic duel between Errol Flynn's Robin Hood and Basil Rathbone's Guy of Gisbourne in the 1938 Adventures of Robin Hood. It may be unrealistic as hell, but for pure excitement nothing on film matches it. Michael Curtiz did a superb job of filming it. The long shots of Flynn's and Rathbone's shadows dueling are especially effective, and were obviously borrowed by Lucas for the Skywalker/Vader fight in Return of the Jedi.
By Kevin Perry on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 11:00 am:
I am NOT defending Lucas at all, as I'm nearly as angry as Chick about the demise of a mythology I love.
But Lucas did have a good quote during the pre-hype for Ep. 1 about the Jedi fighting scenes. He said, roughly, 'All we've seen so far is an old man, a cripple, and a boy trained by a dwarf."
The only good parts of Ep1 for me was the characterization of Qui-Gon as the patient questing Jedi. As others noted above, the characterization of the three (Obi-Wan's impatience and zeal, Qui-Gon's calm, and Maul's constant energy flow) is amazing. The emotion-through-action drive through the final scenes IS the heart of the movie, and the silent promise of a good Star Wars film. It is that promise that is shattered with every Jar-Jar squawk and forced 'comedic' scene. It is that promise which "Attack of the Clones" grinds underneath its heel. It is that promise that I know I can only see in glimpses when Lucas isn't busy filling the screen with loud pandering crap.
I gotta go lie down.
By BobM on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 11:57 am:
Yes. To me, that is the worst aspect of Episode I. It _could_ have been a good movie so easily. Through the whole movie, I get this feeling that anyone but Lucas could have edited it, using existing footage, into a good film.
I've heard that Lucas is submitting the script for Episode II to another writer to flesh it out; I still hold hopes that Episode II will be a better film than Episode I, despite it's corny title.
A Star Wars fan who must remain anonymous
By Thierry Nguyen on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 12:48 pm:
"And, yes, Thierry, that's very much what I envision as being a good part of Episode II, though Anakin and Amidala have to begin their "relationship" soon, as well. I believe that it was Ep. II that Lucas said was going to be largely a love story, though that was before the title was nailed down, so he might be re-focusing a tad."
I read a lot of rumors saying that while the love story is still the focus, there're some interesting sounding sub-plots. Of course, these rumors could be fanmade fluff, but then again, these sources are the people who found out about midiclorians a year before Episode I came out.
Anyhow, based on the rumors I've been reading, title withstanding, Episode II does sound a lot neater.
"Maybe what makes fight scenes exciting, I think, is when there's very, very little in the way of cuts."
After my friends and I watched Kiss Of The Dragon, this was the line of division, so to speak. The guys who only knew Jet Li from American stuff found it fine. Me and one other fella, who watched a lot of his old-school stuff, found it very annoying. It was mostly due to how the fight scenes were edited. I was raised by fight scenes that were very steady/lean, as opposed to MTV music video cut-happy. I didn't really notice how disruptive quick cuts are to a fight scene until KOTD.
Then again, I really liked the lightsaber triple-duel in Phantom Menace. Oops.
"Of course, isn't Ray Park a multi-level black belt in several different fighting styles? I think he helped choreograph the scenes, too. I do know one thing: He was pretty darn impressive."
Hell, he was the Headless Horseman in Sleepy Hollow, and he just signed up to play Iron Fist. We just need someone to be a Power Man. Step away, Nick Cage. You may have named yourself after him, but you're no Luke Cage.
By Kevin Perry on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 01:38 pm:
Ray Park is also Toad in X-Men. Not that he does martial arts with his tongue.
Saw Charlie's Angels the other week. Got about what I expected, and proves Thierry's point rather well. All the fight scenes are so chopped up that the beauty of the choreography is lost. . . and it was Hong Kong choreographed.
Still, there is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL moment that kicks off the first fight scene. The Thin Man is running from the Angels, and in an amazingly seamless transition leaps onto a crate, grabs a pistol from an ankle holster, spins 180 in the air, and starts firing before he hits the ground.
I literally fell out of my chair in amazement. After the movie was over, I went back to that scene and watched it until my wife hit me. It's a long crane shot, wonderfully executed.
It leads into a fight scene that's cut to shreds.
As a counterpoint, though, there's a later car chase scene that is cut blindingly fast, and is wonderful because of that.
A Kevin Perry who must remain anony-- crap.
By Robert Mayer on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 01:45 pm:
American Graffiti. Who cares what Lucas did after that? I love that movie.
By Bub (Bub) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 02:24 pm:
"Pretty impressive -- both great films! (I had no idea that you were so well-trained. Very cool.)"
I'm not. But the guy who trained us was! I didn't stick with the program long enough. I did a lot of rapier/dagger work for a Shakespeare Rep and the Ren Faires. Also wrote and choreographed my own stuff at OCC and later SFSU.
"Still, there is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL moment that kicks off the first fight scene. The Thin Man is running from the Angels, and in an amazingly seamless transition leaps onto a crate, grabs a pistol from an ankle holster, spins 180 in the air, and starts firing before he hits the ground."
I really enjoyed Crispin Glover in that film. He also, um, smoked really, really, well. Where's he been? The last time I *remember* seeing him was as the crazy brother in that Wild At Heart flashback ("I'm MAKING MY LUNCH!!")
The main villain in CA was great too. So far as the fight scenes go, it wasn't only how they were edited, it was painfully obvious during most of the kicks that these were NOT people capable of acrobatics or even, um, limber.
Jackie Chan or Michelle Yeoh can do so much more in real time than Lucy Lui and co. can do in slo motion. At least Keanu was filmed better in The Matrix.
At the end of the day I actually like Charlie's Angels, in spite of myself.
By David E. Hunt (Davidcpa) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 04:15 pm:
At the end of the day I actually like Charlie's Angels, in spite of myself.
"I ain't no RODENT!"
Remember Serji X?
By Bub (Bub) on Wednesday, August 8, 2001 - 08:57 pm:
Don't drag me into your obscure referential parallel universe Jim.