I have an AMD 1.1 gig.
I want a 64MB Radeon w/video in/out for video editing and console screenshot purposes.
I've heard bad things about the combo.
Recommendations? Anecdotes? Stories? Lies?
PS: Please denote "lies" with an asterix or something clever.
PPS: This post is somewhat directed at Jason Cross because he's given me a lot of upgrade advice in the past, free of charge. Lloyd Case always wanted money....
By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 01:17 pm:
I feel bad having forum posts directed at me on Tom and Mark's site...you know you can always just email me or, better yet, use the hardware forums on our site.
Anyway, I haven't personally tested a 64MB Radeon VIVO with any of the newer Athlons. I've had reports from folks who have, though.
They key seems to be this: make sure you've got a good Athlon motherboard (something with the AMD 760/761 chipset if possible), make sure its BIOS and drivers are up to date, especially the VIA 4-in-1 drivers. Make sure the Radeon's drivers are totally up to date.
Then, you should be fine. Any of the problems I've heard have been mostly the result of weird or improper configurations--bad or old drivers, strange AGP settings in the BIOS, stuff like that.
I'm not sure who good the Radeon VIVO will be for console screenshot purposes, though. I've found that hooking most consoles into most video capture cards results in pretty jittery pictures, but that could be the function of several things. I'm not big into video capture or editing, so I don't have a lot of experience there.
I'm currently trying to get the newer 64MB Radeon and a Radeon VE in for testing, since I don't have those versions. But ATI hasn't gotten back to me. =( In some ways, their PR isn't what it used to be.
By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 01:17 pm:
Oh, and my father is Mr. Cross. I'm "Jason."
By Aszurom on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 02:40 pm:
I think I have the answers you seek. I've got a 32MB radeon in my 2nd box, specifically for video editing.
Please see http://www.coregamer.com/video/tanks.wmv for the results of my first attempt at capturing game footage. I got better, but still, it ain't too shabby. Has some gama problems on this clip tho.
The basic setup is that there is a "universal connector" similar to S-Video that goes into the back of the card. This is an extension cord that goes into a box with S-Video, composite, and L/R audio jacks on it. You can also plug coax cable directly into the back of the card.
On the back of the card, you have a flat-panel output (I forget the actual name of the connector style) with an adapter to convert it to normal SVGA output. There is also a "composite out" jack. I really wish it were on that little external box, but such is life.
I've noticed that with the supplied cables, there is a moderate amount of interference in the video signal. It's not terribly noticeable, but if you leave it at a blank screen (no input signal) you can see waves and sparkles pretty clearly. Those are still there during video work, but when you've got a moving image there it's not as noticeable. I'm not sure if I blame the cabling and evironment (A lot of RF noise because it has to plug into the PC's backside with everything else) or the actual card itself picking up internal RF inside the box. Either way, not unmanageable, but I'm a perfection freak about video.
As far as gaming on the Radeon goes... it's an OMM-like mixed bag. Oni works until I hit certain camera angles which leave me with a blank screen for a second. Tribes2 textures are thrashed in D3D mode, but look fine in OpenGL. Assorted other gleeps and peeps, mostly texture related. Simply put, it ain't no GForce2.
Color-wise, there's an oddity. In Freespace2, the interface is dark gold, where on my other box (GF2) it's steel grey. Could be the monitor, since the radeon is on a Princeton GFX OE70 and the GF is hooked to a KDS Trinitron 19.
Linux, altho you don't use it, HATES that Radeon. I finally got it to work, but I'm definitely going to hell for the things I said while working the problem. The root of that evil is that there just wasn't a decent driver available for-friggin-ever. Maybe there is one now, but I had to "roll my own".
So, as far as video capture of still frames goes, I think what your best bet would be is to just hook the console up to the Radeon as if it were at TV (Currently my PSX is just like that) and play the game while recording an .MPG on the fly. You can save the video, go back and get exactly the frames you want from it, and have no jitter or other distortion.
In short - Radeon would never be my first choice for a gaming card, but for video work you can't do any better in the budget range. Mixed bag.
Now... if you want to capture PC game footage to video, I would very strongly recommend the TView Gold scan converter. Mine cost me $250. It'll output 1600x1024 to a TV set quite clearly. What I do, however, is run the Svideo output from the converter into the Svideo input of the Radeon, and I get a nice crispy picture every time. You'll quickly find that with standard composite video outputs on so-equipped cards (such as the radeon, TNT2, and Matrox) you don't have enough control over the the dimensions of the output... hence you're going to have a nasty black border around the image and you can't get TV quality imagery out of it. With the TView or any other good converter, you can adjust all that - providing great "edge to edge" video signal that you just cannot get from a card-only solution.
You now owe me a beer, see you at the GOD booth.
By Kevin Grey on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 08:09 pm:
What's the difference between the Radeon All-In-Wonder and the VIVO? My dad is interested in a card with decent 3D but his priority is video editing and he's looking at one of these cards. Can they both do video editing?
By Bub (Bub) on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 10:18 pm:
"I feel bad having forum posts directed at me on Tom and Mark's site...you know you can always just email me"
Yeah, I've done that in the past. I did it this way because then your answer could benefit others. I owe you a beer Mr. Cross's Son.
-Mr. Bub's Son
*note to self: avoid GOD booth
By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Monday, May 7, 2001 - 11:40 am:
Kevin--the VIVO has a Video-in/Video-Out connector so you can hook up a composite video signal and output to TV.
The All-in-wonder has a complete TV tuner built in, and I *THINK* handles audio capture as well (with a pass-through to your audio card). With the VIVO, you plug audio input into the line in of your sound card, I think.
So if you plan to capture from a VCR or game console or something, a VIVO is all you need. If you want to plug in your cable line and watch TV or capture it (including digital VCR on your hard drive) you want an AIW.
I definitely gotta get me some of them newer Radeons.
Oh, and the key with the Radeon and games seems to be to CONSTANTLY have the latest drivers. There are beta "unsupported" drivers out there and they almost always work better with games than the latest supported drivers on ATI's site.
By Kevin Grey on Monday, May 7, 2001 - 05:38 pm:
Jason, thanks for the help! Sounds like my dad needs the VIVO.
By Rob_Merritt on Tuesday, May 8, 2001 - 03:12 pm:
I've had an Ati Radeon 32 meg DDR all in wonder and love the card. Gaming its on par with the standard geforce2 gts (not the ultra), looks good, and takes card of all my video capturing needs. I run it on an athlon board (asus k7m) with an athlon 850 that use to lock like made with either Geforce or Geforce 2 cards and the radeon is rock stable.