My Specs:

XPS B600r (P3 600 mhz. coppermine proc)
128 mb. (400 mhz.) rdram
30 gig hard drive
sound blaster Live!
geforce 256 sdram
12x dvd player
200 watt power supply
19" Sony trinitron monitor (multiscan)
2.1's kiplish speakers (200 watts)
Window's 98 SE

Ok, my computer is getting a little long in the tooth. But what should I do? Upgrade and save money or sell my current computer and buy an Alienware for Christmas. I have a couple of questions that I hope someone can answer for me.

1) If I put a Geforce 3 in my system, will the 600mz processor be enough? Will it cause a bottleneck? I can upgrade to 1 ghz.

2) Will my paltry 200 watt power supply be able to pump enough power to a Geforce 3 64 mb. video card? Since I have a dell, my motherboard will only accept dell power supply's and they only make 200 watt power supplys for this particular system. I tried to put a ATX 300 watt power supply in last year and the motherboard wouldn't accept it.

3) I know I could use more ram, but will my OS (Window's 98SE) recognize anything above 128 mb? A dell technician told me that I would be throwing my money away on extra ram because Window's 98SE will only recognize the 128mb. and will not recognize anything above 128 mb. Is he right about that? Should I upgrade to Windows XP?

4) Is 5.1 surround sound really worth it? My speakers are loud enough, but would I notice the difference going to a 5.1 setup?

5) With a 200 watt power supply in my system, will I be able to put a 16x cdrw in? Will I have enough power to adequately power the different items in my system?

6) The speed of the rdram in my system is only 400 mhz. Is this really poor when compared to the current 800 mhz used in systems today? Will it be to slow for today's applications and games?


If I upgrade:
1ghz. coppermine processor
256 (400mhz.) rdram
Geforce 3
Window's XP (maybe)

Will this setup be enough to play the upcoming holiday games (ex. Castle Wolfenstein, Ghost Recon, etc.) and future games (ex. Unreal 2, Planetside)?

Will that 200 watt power supply cause me problems when upgrading? This is what I'm really worried about!

Any Suggestions?

I'm using a PII 450 with an old first-generation TNT video card running Windows XP with 256MB of RAM, and I'm able to play all of the current hardcore 3-D action games: Operation Flashpoint, Max Payne, whatever the fuck you want to throw at it. I may be missing certain environmental effects (not sure), but these games look good enough for my purposes.

Sure you need to throw away your computer now? If you wait longer you'll get more for your money, whippersnapper. Games may look somewhat better with more hardware than you have at the moment, but if they are playable and enjoyable with my ol' setup, I don't see why you would "need" to buy an Alienware in order to play games.

I think you're better off building up a new barebones system and transferring a few items from the old one (sound card, hard drive, etc).

Now is a good time to buy, IMO. Nothing earth shattering on the horizon that should make you think twice.

If you can scrounge up enough parts you then have two computers.. sell the old one to a friend or family member looking for a basic inexpensive computer, or keep it to start your own Shoot Club somewhere down the line.

Per Murph's suggestion, I would check out the build-to-order systems at mwave--

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/ProdBAREBONE-AMDTBIRD.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=BBONE%2Ehmx%3F

They build it up for you and burn it in for a small fee, so you get a (theoretically) functional system out of the box. Here's more info on that:

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/barespec.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=BBONE%2Ehmx%3F

Here's what I recently ordered, and it's what I recommend for the best bang for the buck. yes, I succumbed. It just isn't Christmas without a new motherboard and CPU, now is it?

mobo: EPOX 8KHA+
CPU: Athlon XP 1700+
RAM: 256mb PC2100 DDR
case: aopen hx45 (default)

That comes to $345. You can specify a Plextor CD-R for around $110-$130.

You'll probably want to add a new video card. Hands down the choice is the nVidia GF3 TI 200 (64mb). It's around $180. That's the low cost GeForce 3 and there is no other video card on the market even worth considering IMO. If you're on a very strict budget then you can drop to the GeForce2 level, but be sure to get DDR.. otherwise you won't see much improvement over your current GF SDR.

Jeff

Hey Jeff, I think I was the one who introduced Multiwave to the people here, but whatever. Your system looks identical to what I just bought save the case. I went with the Enlight 7237/340. I also didn't do their burn in.

I threw in Windows XP and brought my total to $572 including shipping. This was a humongous upgrade for me. Everything is like "buttah" now.

I find it really hard to believe you're playing "all of the current hardcore 3-D action games: Operation Flashpoint, Max Payne, whatever the fuck you want to throw at it" on that 450 with a TNT SiNNER. Espeically with WinXP and only 256MB of RAM. Yeesh...you must have some butt ugly gaming sessions. I was already struggling with a GeForce2 GTS in place of a TNT in a 450MHz system. That's why I upgraded.

--Dave

Sorry Dave.

Actually, to be totally honest, I didn't quite go that route-- I went Athlon MP and paid the $60 overclocking tax (the MPs are unlocked, and the XPs are a bitch to unlock). So I couldn't actually buy that config from mwave. And I selected a different case.

Same mobo though, and the spirit of the upgrade was the same.

I just couldn't wait any longer for nForce. Damn you nVidia!

Yeah, I gave up on nForce too. I couldn't wait any longer and got cold feet that the boards would cost too much for the benefits you get. I'd really like to change out my Creative Labs sound card for something else because I'm tired of their driver nonsense. If NVIDIA releases that sound chip on a sound board separately, I'm there. If not, I'm seriously considering a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.

--Dave

Benjamin:

To answer your main question: a 200W power supply is painful to read, much less think about. 300+ if at all possible.

"3) I know I could use more ram, but will my OS (Window's 98SE) recognize anything above 128 mb? A dell technician told me that I would be throwing my money away on extra ram because Window's 98SE will only recognize the 128mb. and will not recognize anything above 128 mb. Is he right about that? Should I upgrade to Windows XP?"

Win98SE recognizes over 128MB just fine. It doesn't use over 256 very well unless you tell it how (some .ini editing, basically). It has to be... encouraged a bit. :)

But in either case, imo, XP's the best MS OS that's come out in years. Maybe ever. I'd recommend an upgrade to that just because.

And I'll echo what others have been saying: All you really need is a new case/power supply, motherboard, CPU, RAM, and video... you've got the rest covered just fine. Now, what exactly to buy--that's up to you.

Myself, I'd go with an Athlon setup. Cheaper, more overclock friendly, cheaper, just as compatible, and cheaper.

Thxs for your input guys. I know about Mwave as I bought my 19" Sony trinton moinitor from them and I have been extremely happy.

Anyway, the barebones systems that they have are good, but I do not like there case selection. Maybe I'm nitpicking but I would like a flashier case to house my computer. Also, what type of memory do they use with there bare bones systems? Is it kingston, crucial or a house brand?

What I'm actually thinking of doing is going the motherboard bundle route. My choices:

mobo: Epox 8KHA+
proc: AMD 1600 +
memory: Kingston 512 mb ddr (Pc 2100)
Assemble and tested

Total= $373 +shipping

Then I would get a aluminium case immediately from another site and add parts as I build my system. Also, it would be a great experience for me because I've never built a system before. In addition, the risk factor that I would screw up my system would be low because my mobo/proc/ddr setup would be pre-tested. It would take me about 1-2 months to put together this system.

Also, I would like to sell my Dell system in it's regular configuration so I wouldn't want to swap parts out of it. I still figure I can get $600-$700 dollars when I sell it within 1-3 months.

Anything wrong with this idea?
Any suggestions? thxs!

Also: Sinner how the hell are you playing current gaming titles on your computer? With my current computer I have to reduce effects, resolution and textures down a bit so I can get an exceptable frame rate. Hell, with UT I only average about 30-35 fps. OPeration flashpoint ran pretty badly for me, so I can't see you playing these newer games at a resonable resolution and framerate!

Dave, I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. It has good sound and actual working XP drivers.

He's not. I have a friend with almost the same setup, and he stopped playing NOLF because it was just to slow, and the RTCW MP demo was a joke to try. Just trying to make poeple think their blowing money on usless upgrades.

Benjamin:
"Also, I would like to sell my Dell system in it's regular configuration so I wouldn't want to swap parts out of it. I still figure I can get $600-$700 dollars when I sell it within 1-3 months."

Hate to rain on your parade, but you'd be lucky to get $500 for it if you sold it tomorrow. Hit ebay and enter "600 mhz" and throw out all the notebooks. Look at the full systems.

http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2001/november/011109_Upgrade/011109_Upgrade.htm

Here's a great article on the merits of DDR and Athlon XP vs. SDR and T-bird.

And whoever asked me if hardware prefetch on the XP works on KT133A SDR chipsets.. here's your proof. Yes it does-- and how! Looks like the XP is a valid upgrade path all by itself, assuming your mobo supports it..

"Also: Sinner how the hell are you playing current gaming titles on your computer? With my current computer I have to reduce effects, resolution and textures down a bit so I can get an exceptable frame rate. Hell, with UT I only average about 30-35 fps. OPeration flashpoint ran pretty badly for me, so I can't see you playing these newer games at a resonable resolution and framerate!"

I guess it depends what you consider a reasonable resolution. I usually go for 800 x 600 on my 17" monitor. As for fps, I never measure it; just judge it based on whether or not I notice laggy jumps. If I don't notice jumping objects or sluggish redraw, I figure it's fine. I can play both Max Payne and Operation Flashpoint without noticing such effects. I didn't have to change any settings. For all I know, I'm missing some beautiful subtle effects, but the screen I see basically looks like what I see in screenshots in the reviews.

I guess what it comes down to is disposable income, priorities, and how often you feel comfortable throwing away working equipment just to keep up with the cutting edge. I use this computer to run Photoshop, Fireworks, and Freehand at the same time as I run a MP3 player and one or two open IE windows. When I want to have fun, I can play any of the current games without broken functionality. I personally don't need more performance out of my computer than that, so I stick with what I got. The longer I can go without spending $2000 (the original price of my current unit) on a new computer system, the happier I am.

Hello low standards!

You could upgrade your computer for under $400. That would be a substantial upgrade. $550 if you throw in a decent near-high-end video card.

The cost might not be as low as you make it out to be. I have the problem that I would need to upgrade most of my peripherals too, but that's because I'm still using ISA peripherals from four years ago. ...and you thought SiNNER had low standards! Hmmm, now that I think about it, I should probably upgrade. There goes my console money. *sigh*

- Alan

Okay, well, let's source a complete system. Starting with my default mwave recommendations--

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/ProdBAREBONE-AMDTBIRD.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=BBONE%2Ehmx%3F

mobo: EPOX 8KHA+
CPU: Athlon XP 1700+
RAM: 256mb PC2100 DDR
case: aopen hx45 (default)

That's $385, built and burned in. What do we need now?

hard drive: IBM Deskstar 60gxp 40gb $104
video card: PINE GeForce2 Ti 200 64mb $130

If you want to upgrade to a GeForce 3 Ti 200, add $60.

CD-R, CD-ROM, or DVD is a personal choice so I'll leave that to you with a budget of $100.

Total cost for complete system (no monitor, mouse, speakers, or keyboard): $619.

And this is a no-compromises gaming machine! If we want to talk compromises, shave another $150 from the price. The bulk of the savings would likely come from the CPU and the video card...

Hey, I was playing the RtCW MP demo on my K6-III 400 Mhz with a 3dfx Banshee. Had to turn every effect off and run at 640x480. But it was still fun! But, god, the game is gorgeous when it's running on a modern videocard/CPU. I never knew how pretty a game could be til I tried it on my new Athlon 1.2 Ghz and GeForce 2. Boy, howdy.

Brad Grenz

Wumpus is right. There has never been a better time to upgrade in PC history. Everything is low priced right now. Even monitors can be had for reasonably low amounts.

Everytime I see someone buying a Dell, Gateway, etc. with all their extra gonk for thousands of dollars, it makes me physically sick. What a waste of money.

--Dave

"There has never been a better time to upgrade in PC history."

Except for all of the ongoing major job losses and that economy in the toilet thang. Maybe I'll get a job as an airline security dude.

Dave, now is a definitely a good time to upgrade.. but I think you're going a little overboard with the rhetoric here. ;)

Sure, it's a great time to upgrade -- if you have expendable cash. I'm not broke or anything, but...Well, let's see...Mortgage...Car payment...Utilities...CHRISTMAS PRESENTS!!! Nope, no expendable cash right now...

I assure you all, as soon as I can come up with $400 that isn't already dedicated to some other purpose, I'll upgrade...

'Til then, I'll stick with my sad little system that is still running what I need it to run. Max Payne included.

Easiest way to get your system upgraded: hand your wife $400, hand her a list, and tell her it's all you want for Christmas. They have a hard time shooting down that kind of spending when they're the ones that get to buy it and it's for Christmas. :)

I recently moved from a PIII-600 to an Athlon 1.2 T-Bird. With the new case it cost me a grand total of $260 + tax for the bundle. Probably going to upgrade my GeForce 2 to a GeForce 3 sometime after Christmas, but that's a maybe. I haven't found a game yet that I can't run smooth as silk at 1024 x 768 x 32, so the video card is a low priority..

(went with the 133 over the 266 so I could use my old RAM. I was operating on a $300 budget and the new RAM would have put me way over. Had a hard time justifying throwing out 384MB of 133)

Yeah, I really didn't want to upgrade.. but Operation Flashpoint convinced me.

That new 1.3 patch singleplayer mission "Battlegrounds" is recommended for 1ghz+ systems, and it was mighty chunky on my 1.4ghz + SDR system.

What a cool mission, though. About 50 units + armor on either side attacking each other on a large field. Definitely check it out if you haven't already.

So, my upgrade was effectively 20% increase in CPU clock (1.4 -> 1.7), 50% increase in memory bandwidth (133 -> 266), plus the XP enhancements (SSE). But I am using the same exact GF3 video card in both systems.

I see about a 30-40% improvement in real world framerates. For example my 3DMark2001 score went from 5500 to 7900, a 43% jump