The dark side of social gaming?

cliffski · 11-02-2009, 03:56 AM

Interesting article on social (facebook etc) gaming, and just how the money gets made:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/31...ystem-of-hell/

Quote:

A typical scam: users are offered in game currency in exchange for filling out an IQ survey. Four simple questions are asked. The answers are irrelevant. When the user gets to the last question they are told their results will be text messaged to them. They are asked to enter in their mobile phone number, and are texted a pin code to enter on the quiz. Once they’ve done that, they’ve just subscribed to a $9.99/month subscription. Tatto Media is the company at the very end of the line on most mobile scams, and they flow it up through Offerpal, SuperRewards and others to the game developers.

I'd like to think that game devs can just make GOOD games, offer a demo, and exchange $20-40 in return for a game that is fun. This sort of stuff gives me a bad feeling. Am I just too old-school?

Harkonis · 11-02-2009, 04:36 AM

I've seen a LOT of the most popular games are using the survey scam. :(

jpinard · 11-02-2009, 04:46 AM

Wow that's disgusting. Thanks for the heads-up.

BigWeather · 11-02-2009, 08:54 AM

Bunch of damn scumbags. Thanks for the heads up, I'll let my niece (who seems quite addicted to those types of games) know so she doesn't get suckered.

Telefrog · 11-02-2009, 09:02 AM

People fall for these? I am amazed that people respond to any commercial request for text messaging at this point. Has there ever been a legit use of texting by a marketing/media company? I don't use text other than with close friends or family.

Nathan Phoenix · 11-02-2009, 12:25 PM

A lot of the Zynga stuff uses this. I toyed around with some of their social games for a while, and pretty much all of the 'free' game currency options culminated in something like this. Obviously I did not partake.

Bad Neighbor · 11-02-2009, 02:18 PM

Wow. Everyone I know that uses Facebook has played Farmville. Not all of them are smart enough to avoid this scam.

HighPlainsDrifter · 11-02-2009, 05:08 PM

I remember there was a long thread where someone was asking how Facebook games made money. Now we know.

Kunikos · 11-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Yeah, the bottom line is that if you want to pay into a Facebook game just pay directly to the creator. Otherwise suck it up and learn how to play the game as best as you can for free.

DavidKaye · 11-02-2009, 05:20 PM

Hey guys. Arrington loves to kick up a fuss, and he's one of the best in the business at it. Unfortunately, a lot of his assertions are just flat out wrong. Most of the crappy offers are long gone from the platform. If you look at the offer wall on our game, Island Paradise, you can see it is dominated by legitimate name brand advertisers:

http://apps.facebook.com/myownisland...e/earn_credits

These guys have been using the offer platforms for about two years now - the system works. I agree that the scammy stuff needs to die, but it's unfair to tar an entire industry with the same brush. It is also worth noting that most of the top games (ours included) take the majority of their revenue from direct payment, not offers.

This article on Inside Social Games provides a much more balanced perspective on the issue.

Octonoo · 11-02-2009, 06:05 PM

This can't really be happening as the article states.

Sid Meier would never get involved if this were the truly the case.

MatthewF · 11-02-2009, 08:08 PM

Well, I know Epic Pet Wars uses this as their baseline "offer" for getting respect points (which you can turn around and exchange for special items/perks). I know a lot of people that play it and a couple who noticed the fine print when trying to do the quiz.

checker · 11-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidKaye

Hey guys. Arrington loves to kick up a fuss, and he's one of the best in the business at it. Unfortunately, a lot of his assertions are just flat out wrong.

Yeah, the video at the bottom of the TC post in the OP is really interesting to watch. Arrington gets up and asks his question, and the woman from OfferWhatever hits him hard on each point. He then says in the blog post that she didn't address his points, which I find odd, since it sounded to me like she did an okay job. I'm not taking sides here, I have big concerns over these games even ignoring this aspect of them, but clearly Arrington is using his pulpit to stir shit up without being very even handed about it.

Yay internet!

Chris

cliffski · 11-03-2009, 01:07 AM

I've been playing one of these games for a few days, just out of research tbh, and although I know I'm never going to spend any money or get scammed, I find the game design of them really quite hideous. It seems that the prirorites of the game design are #1 Get money and #2 get them to tell their friends about the game every hour.
I know companies need to make money and get exposure (hey I know this very very well), but I always thought that if you make #1 'Enable the player to have fun' then everything else will flow from that.

These games seem so insistent and 'needy' abotu wanting me to tell all my friends how cool they are, that I find it makes me want to do the exact opposite. Good games spread by word of mouth anyway, without the game needing to nag you into mentioning it. It just feels desperate and very cynical.

MatthewF · 11-03-2009, 01:14 AM

Unfortunately that basically ties into the "Get money" part. None of these games are going to go down as legends in gaming history, so they primarily just exists to make as much money as they can from each person, as fast as they can. I absolutely abhor the fact that Pet Wars constantly wants to broadcast to FB every time I either level up, get some random "achievement" the game thinks is worthwhile enough to tell everyone about, etc. If I want to tell people about it, shit, I'll get around to it myself.

stusser · 11-06-2009, 03:28 PM

I was just going to post about this, but found this post in a search. Really a fascinating series of articles. I don't use (or understand, really) facebook or myspace, but I've heard about social gaming and always kinda wondered how they were monetized.

Hans Lauring · 11-06-2009, 03:31 PM

What's the light side of social gaming?

stusser · 11-06-2009, 03:32 PM

See DavidKaye's post.

Foxstab · 11-06-2009, 04:33 PM

User Advert Scam and Scamming your Advertisers, sadly, is an old day aged fashioned regular curriculum activity for most of these type of people and small time "get rich then ditch" games.

Damien Neil · 11-06-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffski

I've been playing one of these games for a few days, just out of research tbh, and although I know I'm never going to spend any money or get scammed, I find the game design of them really quite hideous. It seems that the prirorites of the game design are #1 Get money and #2 get them to tell their friends about the game every hour.

Take a look at MouseHunt on Facebook for a fairly good example of the genre done in a reasonably non-evil fashion. It does reward enlisting friends and spending money, but it doesn't hit you over the head with demands for either.

Game design wise, it's a pure slot machine. Pull the lever, see what you get. There's a thin layer of strategy in deciding which lever to pull to get ahead the fastest, but that's it. I certainly wouldn't praise it as a good game--but I think that it is a good implementation of the MMO skinner box treadmill in a compact, relatively harmless form.

nothings · 11-09-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewF

I absolutely abhor the fact that Pet Wars constantly wants to broadcast to FB every time I either level up, get some random "achievement" the game thinks is worthwhile enough to tell everyone about, etc.

Facebook is just a cesspool of those kind of worthless messages, though. I'm more concerned about it creeping out from games on social platforms to regular games, a la

Foxstab · 11-20-2009, 02:33 PM

So I was reading my incoming emails and someone wanted to add me as a friend on Facebook.
So I went over and confirmed them.
I then saw a slew of Facebook social-spam-scam-game invitations. After deleting a few I noticed there's an option, in smaller-sized font to "Block This Application", oh neat I thought and went on my merry clickety-click way with "Mafia Wars" being my first victim.
"WRONG!!!" Screamed Lex Moneygrabber and greeted me with a nice notification:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScamBook

Oops
Something went wrong. We're working on getting this fixed as soon as we can. You may be able to try again.

How lovely. Are the scams being protected by Facebook?

Kraaze · 11-20-2009, 02:37 PM

No, that's a generic "servers are overloaded right now" message. I've gotten it in all sorts of contexts.

11-02-2009, 04:36 AM	#2
Harkonis Neo Acoustic Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,809	I've seen a LOT of the most popular games are using the survey scam. :(

11-02-2009, 04:46 AM	#3
jpinard Keeper of the Frop Bog New Romantic Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Enceladus, Saturn Posts: 7,158	Wow that's disgusting. Thanks for the heads-up.

11-02-2009, 08:54 AM	#4
BigWeather Mad Chester Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,300	Bunch of damn scumbags. Thanks for the heads up, I'll let my niece (who seems quite addicted to those types of games) know so she doesn't get suckered.

11-02-2009, 09:02 AM	#5
Telefrog Social Worker Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Washington State, XBL: Telefrog Posts: 4,598	People fall for these? I am amazed that people respond to any commercial request for text messaging at this point. Has there ever been a legit use of texting by a marketing/media company? I don't use text other than with close friends or family.

11-02-2009, 12:25 PM	#6
Nathan Phoenix Social Worker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: FKA Lokust Posts: 3,795	A lot of the Zynga stuff uses this. I toyed around with some of their social games for a while, and pretty much all of the 'free' game currency options culminated in something like this. Obviously I did not partake.

11-02-2009, 02:18 PM	#7
Bad Neighbor Neo Acoustic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Steam ID: Bad Neighbor Posts: 1,821	Wow. Everyone I know that uses Facebook has played Farmville. Not all of them are smart enough to avoid this scam.

11-02-2009, 05:08 PM	#8
HighPlainsDrifter Broad Band Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 287	I remember there was a long thread where someone was asking how Facebook games made money. Now we know.

11-02-2009, 05:11 PM	#9
Kunikos How To Go Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sigil Posts: 11,674	Yeah, the bottom line is that if you want to pay into a Facebook game just pay directly to the creator. Otherwise suck it up and learn how to play the game as best as you can for free.

11-02-2009, 05:20 PM	#10
DavidKaye Neo Acoustic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: West Hollywood, CA Gamertag: DaedalusForever Posts: 1,907	Hey guys. Arrington loves to kick up a fuss, and he's one of the best in the business at it. Unfortunately, a lot of his assertions are just flat out wrong. Most of the crappy offers are long gone from the platform. If you look at the offer wall on our game, Island Paradise, you can see it is dominated by legitimate name brand advertisers: http://apps.facebook.com/myownisland...e/earn_credits These guys have been using the offer platforms for about two years now - the system works. I agree that the scammy stuff needs to die, but it's unfair to tar an entire industry with the same brush. It is also worth noting that most of the top games (ours included) take the majority of their revenue from direct payment, not offers. This article on Inside Social Games provides a much more balanced perspective on the issue.

11-02-2009, 06:05 PM	#11
Octonoo Goodluck!! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 137	This can't really be happening as the article states. Sid Meier would never get involved if this were the truly the case.

11-02-2009, 08:08 PM	#12
MatthewF New Romantic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,029	Well, I know Epic Pet Wars uses this as their baseline "offer" for getting respect points (which you can turn around and exchange for special items/perks). I know a lot of people that play it and a couple who noticed the fine print when trying to do the quiz.

11-03-2009, 01:07 AM	#14
cliffski Social Worker Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Deepest Wilt-shire in the United Kingdom! Posts: 2,965	I've been playing one of these games for a few days, just out of research tbh, and although I know I'm never going to spend any money or get scammed, I find the game design of them really quite hideous. It seems that the prirorites of the game design are #1 Get money and #2 get them to tell their friends about the game every hour. I know companies need to make money and get exposure (hey I know this very very well), but I always thought that if you make #1 'Enable the player to have fun' then everything else will flow from that. These games seem so insistent and 'needy' abotu wanting me to tell all my friends how cool they are, that I find it makes me want to do the exact opposite. Good games spread by word of mouth anyway, without the game needing to nag you into mentioning it. It just feels desperate and very cynical.

11-03-2009, 01:14 AM	#15
MatthewF New Romantic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,029	Unfortunately that basically ties into the "Get money" part. None of these games are going to go down as legends in gaming history, so they primarily just exists to make as much money as they can from each person, as fast as they can. I absolutely abhor the fact that Pet Wars constantly wants to broadcast to FB every time I either level up, get some random "achievement" the game thinks is worthwhile enough to tell everyone about, etc. If I want to tell people about it, shit, I'll get around to it myself.

11-06-2009, 03:28 PM	#16
stusser New Romantic Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,815	I was just going to post about this, but found this post in a search. Really a fascinating series of articles. I don't use (or understand, really) facebook or myspace, but I've heard about social gaming and always kinda wondered how they were monetized.

11-06-2009, 03:31 PM	#17
Hans Lauring How To Go Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gamertag: Japrufrock Posts: 10,370	What's the light side of social gaming?

11-06-2009, 03:32 PM	#18
stusser New Romantic Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,815	See DavidKaye's post.

11-06-2009, 04:33 PM	#19
Foxstab Neo Acoustic Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,900	User Advert Scam and Scamming your Advertisers, sadly, is an old day aged fashioned regular curriculum activity for most of these type of people and small time "get rich then ditch" games.

11-20-2009, 02:37 PM	#23
Kraaze New Romantic Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 6,166	No, that's a generic "servers are overloaded right now" message. I've gotten it in all sorts of contexts.

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The dark side of social gaming?