Interesting Chinese MMO article

[Equis]

An MMO where you pay real money for levels and equipment, where the game rules constantly change to encourage warfare and its seductive appeal to the average gamer.

It take gold farming to whole new level.

The company that developes and markets the game is apparently making money hand-over-fist, which makes this sort of like the China WoW. It's interesting that the game can actually retain that many players given the nickel-and-dime business practice of its gameplay.

Apologies if this has been posted before, search turned up nothing.

[Wendelius]

Thanks for that link, Equis. That was truly a captivating and somewhat horrifying read. If Lum ever needs more arguments on why buying your way to power is bad, I think there is a lot he could use from this game.

You have to admire how slick the system is. It gently hooks you and then starts offering you upgrades, and then uses your gambling and gear addiction urges and then changes the parameters to make sure you can never stop upgrading and finally encourages and create conflict to force you to stay on top. It doesn't seem like it could be much more cynically efficient at what it's supposed to do (like the example of the exploding stars and the introduction of bound items).

And woe betide you if you dare complain...

...
Gamers were furious. They stopped fighting monsters, refused quests, and the kingdom's rulers sat down in a rare peace and refused to request wars. The Royal Plaza at the center of the game map was thickly dotted with seated warriors, mages, archers, and summoners. These characters, usually bent on slaughter, used absolute peace to protest the insatiable greed of the system.

Naturally, Lu Yang was not absent. She led her clansmen into the ranks of the sit-in, and even paid to address the "entire world (at "ten silver per use"), shouting, "The game is becoming worse, and the system is getting greedier!"

To her dismay, the word "system" did not appear; it had been replaced with "**." She tried "GM"; again, "**." She tried "Shi Yuzhu"; this time, it was "***."

Though furious, Lu Yang also thought it ridiculous. Yes, the secretive ** or *** is omnipresent. It humbly and enthusiastically leads you to spend money, hiding animosity and war in its shadow. It excites you, or inflames your anger. It creates and controls everything. It is the god of this world.

Although the ** cannot be seen, it is always watching you. It was only a few minutes before the incensed "Queen" was taken to prison. On the system's orders, she was held for eight hours. This "prison" is not located anywhere on the map; it exists only in the system. Like Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, you cannot see it—you can only be taken there.

Everything that happened afterward could only take place in a prison in the worst of worlds. The "Queen" was too eye-catching: her qilin betrayed her identity. When the people in the prison saw a monarch, they fell upon her like Lu Yang first did when she was a minor character. They surrounded her in a frenzy of killing. The "Queen" was killed, then respawned in the same spot to be killed again....

On the screen, flashing again and again in bold characters, were the words: "Heavens! The Queen of Chu has been slain by an undistinguished young _____!"
...

Wendelius

[Lum]

YIKES. This really is the worst case scenario for MMO design. People who accuse Western MMOs of purposefully manipulating users into addictive behavior should be directed to this series.

Raph Koster and Boing Boing already wrote about this when Danwei posted the story last year, missed it then. Thanks for pointing it out.

[XPav]

So the game is ridiculously pay to play -- yup, that's ridiculous to our American eyes.

However, the rest of the article reads like any other 'I've never played an MMO' in my life and will explain the system like it's some evil thing.

[SpoofyChop]

First, I thought WoW was the Chinese WoW.

Second, the idea of playing a game that deliberately frustrates the player is about as retarded as it gets. I have no sympathy for Queen Whiner and her subjects.

[Dave47]

Originally Posted by XPav

However, the rest of the article reads like any other 'I've never played an MMO' in my life and will explain the system like it's some evil thing.

I agree; the article is mostly just generic anti-MMO hysteria; given this lack of perspective, it's hard to say how many of these problems are really due to the "pay to play" nature of the game.

For example, read this, and tell me how this game is different from WoW:

The system accurately seizes on the weaknesses of human nature as it calls on gamers to give free reign to depravity in a virtual world that violates the norms of the real world. It gives to those that wage war the power of indiscriminate killing, and it bestows on killers the rewards of increased experience. And the system makes note of your decapitation record. That series of numbers is the height of glory, like an Indian warrior's string of scalps, while all that the dead gain is disgrace.

I played Magic: The Gathering back in middle school with card ante. It was basically a “pay to play” MMO. The inherent concept isn’t “evil” or “sketchy.” It’s possible that this specific implementation really is problematic, but it’s hard to say without a more neutral source of information.

[henryc]

Who cares how the game plays? It made the owner the 24th richest person in China with a net worth of $2.2 billion, and the NYSE even granted him a permit to wear a tracksuit while ringing the bell for his IPO debut.

[Aeon221]

Waaah I can't stop spending my husband's money on a video game that I don't even enjoy playing!!!7 Oh hey look leaves!!

[Lum]

Originally Posted by SpoofyChop

First, I thought WoW was the Chinese WoW

WoW is #3 in the Chinese market, this game is #2.

Originally Posted by henryc

Who cares how the game plays? It made the owner the 24th richest person in China with a net worth of $2.2 billion, and the NYSE even granted him a permit to wear a tracksuit while ringing the bell for his IPO debut.

Offhand, I'd say generally the players usually care.

Originally Posted by Dave47

I agree; the article is mostly just generic anti-MMO hysteria; given this lack of perspective, it's hard to say how many of these problems are really due to the "pay to play" nature of the game.

Well, leaving aside for the moment the MMO operator's PR department literally making a story in a newspaper disappear, the game systems described are pretty nakedly designed to encourage users to spend ever increasing amounts of money to compete with one another.

Most free-to-pay/pay-to-play MMOs do not do this. Many restrict what you can purchase to cosmetic items with no gameplay impact such as avatar customization; others allow you to shortcut tedious parts of the game (the classic "purchasing currency" or powerlevelling items; still others make you purchase essential gameplay items in lieu of paying a subscription fee. What the article described is something entirely different, and closer to what MMO detractors believe all MMOs do. These guys actually DID it.

[SpoofyChop]

Originally Posted by Lum

WoW is #3 in the Chinese market, this game is #2.

Who does the gold farming for those two games? Africans?

[stusser]

That's one hell of an article. Scary stuff.

Read the article man, they aggressively attack any real money trading outside of "the system", going to such extents as making all money and items untradable and destroying any in-game economy beyond directly giving the system money.

[Anaxagoras]

The woman described in that article seems completely alien to me. Yeah, the article did have the tone of "never played an MMO before in their life", but the described gamer seems really strange to me:

Lu Yang considers herself a "pacifist": she brought a woman's gentleness to the rule of her kingdom.
<snip>
The system loves war. In this virtual world, "peace" is disdained and war is revered.

Why did she choose this game if her philosophy (pacificism) is inherently opposed by the way the game is set-up?

Gamers use the time they purchase to advance levels and gain equipment: everything involves spending time and effort. "For example," said Lu, "if you want to fight a top-level monster, you have to travel a long way off and wind your way through a maze killing tons of smaller monsters and spending maybe an entire evening before you can confront the big guy." Most disheartening is the fact that after spending all of that effort to stand before the big monster, if you aren't careful you could be secKilled! Then it's back to the beginning for you.

If described accurately, that just sounds like a poor death system. But there are games that have solved this problem. And if it's going through the maze itself that she finds unpleasant.... that *is* the game. If you don't like it, then why are you playing in the first place?

Bold yellow characters leaped onto the screen: "Heavens! The king of Wu has been slain by an undistinguished young queen!" Lu Yang danced for joy in front of the computer—she had killed a king—a minor character had killed a king! She stamped her feet, and the screen went black—she had kicked the power cord out of its socket in her excitement.

Dancing for joy in front of the computer? I assumed that was just flowery language until the article says she actually accidently unplugged the computer thanks to her gyrations. What the hell?

I'm honestly not trying to get in zingers or make fun of this woman. And maybe the article just picked a non-representative gamer to make its point. But this person is really bizarre. Who would do this?

[stusser]

Oh I think she was nonrepresentative, being female, attractive, and employed in a professional capacity. They tried to pick someone interesting, someone who stood out from the crowd, to produce a good story. But she's not what's interesting about the piece, the game itself is.

[beloved one]

Is it not strange that some people play these games 80 hours+ a week and estrange themselves from their friends and housemates? In fact, as long as people are going to devote so much time/money/energy into these pursuits, it seems a lot more rational that they actively express some emotional attachment. I guess that is just not as "cool" as dispassionately piling up years of your life in game.

[Dave47]

Originally Posted by Lum

Well, leaving aside for the moment the MMO operator's PR department literally making a story in a newspaper disappear, the game systems described are pretty nakedly designed to encourage users to spend ever increasing amounts of money to compete with one another.

Most free-to-pay/pay-to-play MMOs do not do this. Many restrict what you can purchase to cosmetic items with no gameplay impact such as avatar customization; others allow you to shortcut tedious parts of the game (the classic "purchasing currency" or powerlevelling items; still others make you purchase essential gameplay items in lieu of paying a subscription fee. What the article described is something entirely different, and closer to what MMO detractors believe all MMOs do. These guys actually DID it.

I wasn’t trying to defend the game, which I have never played or heard of before today. I was merely pointing out that, to a gamer, it’s hard to take seriously the hysteria over how “violence creates power!” or “soul bound items hurt the free market!” I’m open to condemning this game, but not without more information.

For example, the “chest lottery” mechanism sounds a lot like the classic MMO loot mechanism used in EQ and WoW. Admittedly, those games predicate entry into the “chest lottery” on successfully killing a monster instead of paying real-world money. But that “skill” component of winning a tough fight falls away when you have your target on “farm” status—at that point you’re just exchanging your time for a lottery ticket.

Once you’ve accepted that “grinding time” is a “cost” to play MMOs, I’m not sure what makes this game so despicable.

EDIT: Ok, I read the article for the third time, and finally noticed the line about how you couldn't discard useless drops, and had to instead pay real-life money to "buy" extra holding space for the soul bound items you cannot equip.

Yeah, this game sounds pretty terrible.

[Foxstab]

Originally Posted by XPav

So the game is ridiculously pay to play -- yup, that's ridiculous to our American eyes.

However, the rest of the article reads like any other 'I've never played an MMO' in my life and will explain the system like it's some evil thing.

Originally Posted by Anaxagoras

Why did she choose this game if her philosophy (pacificism) is inherently opposed by the way the game is set-up?

Meieirsm?

[stusser]

Originally Posted by Dave47

I’m not sure what makes this game so despicable.

What about gambling at a casino? It exists solely to take your money, the environment is designed to keep players involved and inebriated with free drinks and cigarettes, there are no clocks or windows, and the irregular rewards and illusion of chance correspond to classic psychological reinforcement mechanisms. How are casinos different from ZT online?

There's one key difference-- at a casino you have a small chance of winning.

[Foxstab]

You can "cheat" at a casino and tip the odds vastly in your favor.

Although, no system is breach-proof. ;D


Whilest the article makes some certain claims as to ZT's popularity, it would seem that the virtual reality differs.

[marxeil]

So in this game you get to do time in jail? Sign me up. I'd love to sit by my monitor and stare at the bars for 8 hours. Can you bribe your way maybe?

[Anaxagoras]

Originally Posted by stusser

But she's not what's interesting about the piece, the game itself is.

I hear what you're saying, but focusing on the game immediately leads me to "But who would play this transparent money drain? Why would anyone do it?"

One of the details that really stunned me was that the game constantly reminds you of your grudge matches... apparently without any request to do so from the player.

"BallToTheWalls33 killed you 2 months ago. ARE YOU GONNA LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT????"

Why yes, yes I am.

[stusser]

Originally Posted by marxeil

Can you bribe your way maybe?

Yes. You can do whatever you want, if you pay real money for it.

That chick supposedly spent tens of thousands of yuan on the game. To put that in perspective, as of right now 10,000 yuan is worth US$1,458. She lives in mainland china, in Chengdu, where the average salary in 2007 was 7,178 yuan.

Yeah. That's a lot of money.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Originally Posted by SpoofyChop

I have no sympathy for Queen Whiner and her subjects.

But -- and this is important -- is she a dingleberry?

[Hanacker]

Originally Posted by marxeil

So in this game you get to do time in jail? Sign me up. I'd love to sit by my monitor and stare at the bars for 8 hours. Can you bribe your way maybe?

Didn't Ultima Online let you do time in jail?

[Adree]

Originally Posted by Hanacker

Didn't Ultima Online let you do time in jail?

GM Jail yes. Sierra's The Realm had an actual jail to go to if you were naughty and got caught.

[Equis]

Her whininess and lack of self-perspective is actually pretty endemic among Chinese nationals. You have to realise that these are a people who have only recently come into affluence and self-expression. They haven't had years of rebellious undertones driving their society as China is still shaking off its somewhat communist history. They're a people used to centuries of taking orders from someone "respectable." I for one, don't really see the sort of king/queen rule in the game as something that can easily take hold in a Western audience.

I may not have sympathy for her per se, but I can understand where she's coming from.

What I find more interesting is that the game is so nakedly abusive to its players, and so encouraging about the bully-playground aspect of its play and the money-sink aspect of character development. Yet it is so popular among the Chinese. I wonder if that says something about the population that plays MMO in China as a whole or does it stand as an example of how MMOs can be dangerous.

[XPav]

Originally Posted by Equis

What I find more interesting is that the game is so nakedly abusive to its players, and so encouraging about the bully-playground aspect of its play and the money-sink aspect of character development. Yet it is so popular among the Chinese. I wonder if that says something about the population that plays MMO in China as a whole or does it stand as an example of how MMOs can be dangerous.

I think that Western European/American folks pick up a massive amount of "market antibodies" due to our saturation in all kinds of advertising starting at early ages.

I mean, let me see how many recognizable logos I can see by just moving my neck.

Apple. Coding Horror (Hi wumpus!). Cambridge Soundworks. Canon. Magnavox. CompUSA. USAA. Koss. Samsung. Razer. Audi. Panasonic. My company logo on my tshirt.

We are so conditioned to being bombarded with things trying to tell us what to do that and we instinctively ignore most of it with no effort on our part. We read this article about this MMO and the people that play and and have the gaming equivalent of "he didn't even buy us dinner and whisper sweet nothings in our ear before..."

We expect the companies that we pay for our timesinks to try hard for our money. The guy with this MMO I think realized that the evolving Chinese culture is a rather different beast than that western market. I mean, we think South Korea is a bit loony at times (Lineage? Really? Lineage???), but this MMO is nowhere near as brazen a "give me money" ploy as anything we've seen before.

[Mordrak]

Originally Posted by Dave47

I played Magic: The Gathering back in middle school with card ante. It was basically a “pay to play” MMO. The inherent concept isn’t “evil” or “sketchy.” It’s possible that this specific implementation really is problematic, but it’s hard to say without a more neutral source of information.

I'd say encouraging kids to gamble is sketchy. The problem with this game isn't even just the micro transactions, it's stuff like only being able to get resources by playing a slot machine and then to make it so the items from the slot machine are bound so you can't even trade those amongst yourselves.

Remember, at least according to the article, you can not get equipment in any other way than paying money.

[MarinusWA]

Does this even qualify as a game? I mean, there really isn't a challenge to beat by playing (just paying) and no end to reach. Isn't this basically a glorified chatbox where money determines your status?

[marxeil]

Originally Posted by stusser

Yes. You can do whatever you want, if you pay real money for it.

That chick supposedly spent tens of thousands of yuan on the game. To put that in perspective, as of right now 10,000 yuan is worth US$1,458. She lives in mainland china, in Chengdu, where the average salary in 2007 was 7,178 yuan.

Yeah. That's a lot of money.

I was tired and didn't phrase well:
Can you buy your way out of jail with real money?

And I also agree that this game is only possible in a culture where people are used to be stepped on by higher ups - nobility, bureaucrats and such.

[salwon]

I'd say encouraging kids to gamble is sketchy.

We played Pogs for keeps. Then when we got bored with that, we just played directly with the slammers (more expensive, and thus cooler). Then we switched to quarters.

If I were alive 50 years ago, it would've been marbles. Kids gambling with their toys isn't exactly a new phenomenon.