Grand Theft Auto: Arrested

[TomChick]

I am driver. I go left, I go right, I go straight ahead. That's it.

[checker]

Reviewers finally break out of the 7 to 9 range and all you can do is complain. :)

Chris

[Lum]

So a couple of points:

* I figured Niko Belic was [spoiler nationality? Is that even necessary?] before the game shipped, they certainly dropped enough clues. For one thing, his first outfit makes him a dead ringer for this guy.

* I dunno, I enjoyed the cabaret sequences. You were in a sleazy dive cabaret, they were *supposed* to be bad. Of course, if the shows in Manhattan are as bad, well, then your point is taken. Similarly, the minigames I thought were pretty good, especially the pool game. It was a nice surprise and was actually pretty well done.

* Uh, the soundtrack is awesome. Dunno what to tell you except you're wrong! The sheer breadth of it alone is amazing, and they have some pretty good gems as well. Fer cryin out loud, the game opens with an awesome Ukrainian hair band anthem.

[MattKeil]

Originally Posted by TomChick

But it's mostly disappointing for how it's clogged with so much of Rockstar's funny radio station stuff. Which, granted, is indeed funny, but Rockstar seems not to know what it's like to drive these days. Who doesn't drive listening to his own music instead of a radio station?

I know when I go carjacking on the way to a mob hit, I always bring my CD binder.

C'mon, man.

[Adree]

I have to disagree, you can tell from many areas such as the gps and the much better gunplay that they have learned from Saint's Row. You don't recognize a lot of the music? Just what do you listen to?

And no mention of the Euphoria system?

[Adree]

I should add one major complaint I do have is a good portion of the dialogue is missed if you don't have subtitles on.

[Lum]

Sadly, though, the Jamaican's jah mon patois is left untranslated. Come on, it's as inpenetrable to me as Russian!

[Adree]

I think thats the joke. The subtitles definitely help though.

[tea1000]

I think the Eastern Promises comparison is fair because it shows that games have got to the point where they can have different audiences. Eastern Promises wasn't for everyone, but a certain section of the film audience loved it. A few more million people will probably like GTA, but that doesn't mean every gamer has to.
To me, the fact that its already had a plot twist that you care enough to write about already sets it above the ranks of those other games you mention.

[Zuwadza]

I have to agree with you on the control issues Tom, combat feels kind of awkward sometimes. They may have learned some lessons from Crackdown and Saint's Row but not the right ones.

[BobJustBob]

They're not Russian? I tried to sit through the first cutscene and failed; since then I've just been skipping them. All I know of the story comes from the cellphone and in-car conversation.

[MattKeil]

Originally Posted by BobJustBob

They're not Russian? I tried to sit through the first cutscene and failed; since then I've just been skipping them. All I know of the story comes from the cellphone and in-car conversation.

Wow. Just wow.

[Lum]

Well, you could concievably ditch the plot entirely, just hijack cars and punch random people in the face. That's certainly valid!

(Though you do miss out on gun shops, the joy of driving over a cop car with a Hummer, and ... uh... 2/3 of the city.)

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by MattKeil

Wow. Just wow.

That's the only time this phrase will ever be justifiable.

[TomChick]

Lum, yeah, the Russian station is pretty cool. As for the overall soundtrack, I recognize a few tunes from going through the credits at the back of the manual, but not many of them. Which wasn't surprising in a lower profile game like Saints Row. But this is GTA4, man. Frankly, I'm surprised there isn't a more expensive song selection. I'm also disappointed there's no classical channel. Have I just not found it yet?

Maybe the Bellic cousins' nationality isn't a spoiler, but listening to Nikko talk about his backstory has a lot more weight if you gradually realize where he's from. I guess his last name is probably a giveaway, although I think the two L's in Bellic might have thrown me. Anyway, it's one instance where I was glad not to have known anything about the game. When he opens up to Mikhail's wife, I felt the story had gradually earned the gravity for that kind of imagery.

Ooh, BJB, don't skip the cutscenes, man. Rockstar does a great job. Then again, you have notoriously weird taste, so maybe they won't do anything for you. :)

-Tom

(BTW, I don't mean to clog up the forum with yet another GTA thread, but I've avoided the other threads for fear of spoilers.)

[Matt Nahman]

Thank God!! All this GTA dicksucking has left me feeling like I was the only one with control issues. The driving is decent when you are getting from point A to point B but when there is a chase and they are in an SUV and you are in a sudan, and they are taking turns at hight speed while you are spinning out of control or crashing into a wall is bullshit. Also the on foot controls leave a lot to be desired. I just don't understand why I liked crackdown so much, yet can't get into any GTA the same way.

[MattKeil]

Originally Posted by epicnemesis

Thank God!! All this GTA dicksucking has left me feeling like I was the only one with control issues. The driving is decent when you are getting from point A to point B but when there is a chase and they are in an SUV and you are in a sudan, and they are taking turns at hight speed while you are spinning out of control or crashing into a wall is bullshit.

No, that would be you not being very good at driving. I'm not saying there's no learning curve, because there definitely is, but I can pull off honest to God Bullitt shit at this point.

[tromik]

I agree with Tom for the most part, the controls do feel really loose at times, and they should have taken better notes from Saint's Row and Crackdown.

The only GTA game I ever finished (aside from the first) was LCS, because the missions were short and easy. I played GTA3 and VC on PC and always got stuck at the radio controlled helicopter missions. But I played them for hours just using the game as a sandbox - launching cars off ramps, driving motorcycles across rooftops, and launching buses off ramps (okay, so there was a lot of launching stuff off other stuff).

Then Saint's Row made it easier to complete the missions, and added the stuff awesome little things like insurance fraud. And Crackdown was the ultimate sandbox game, especially with the Keys to the City DLC.

So while I'll most likely finish GTA4 and dabble in the multiplayer, I don't think I'll be using it as my go to sandbox game a month from now, sadly.

Still, it does have a lot going for it, and at the moment I am in that "one more mission" phase.

[Soldats]

I agree with most of your points Tom, but I'm still finding myself enjoying the game a whole lot. Maybe it's because I never really got into GTA3 beyond trying to set up police chases, and I never touched Vice City or San Andreas for more than 15 minutes. I really like Niko as a character and I'm always rooting for him and his cousin; the game almost feels like an Eddie Murphy-less version of "Coming to America". This is the first GTA game where I've actually tried to follow the story missions instead of just going off on a rampage. I've even tried to avoid killing people on my dates!

There have been moments where I've cursed the game for its wretched combat/driving/pool mini-game, but then something like the following happens:

1. Niko & Roman do some male bonding at Vlad's bar.
2. They walk out piss drunk, but instead of hailing a cab, Niko tries to drive them home.
3. Cops come after them for driving under the influence.
4. Car flips over, Niko bails out while Roman is hurt in the ensuing explosion and gets taken to the hospital.
5. Niko jacks another car and finally ditches the cops, then gets a call from Roman asking for a ride from the hospital.

Unplanned sequences like this have already happened a few times in just the five and a half hours I've put in, and they totally make the game for me.

[BobJustBob]

Originally Posted by TomChick

Ooh, BJB, don't skip the cutscenes, man. Rockstar does a great job. Then again, you have notoriously weird taste, so maybe they won't do anything for you. :)

Well, it's a game. So they could be showing me Casablanca and I'd still be pissed off at the interruption.

But what I watched of the intro and the first cutscene and what little else I've not skipped, I'm not missing much.

[BobJustBob]

Originally Posted by Lum

Well, you could concievably ditch the plot entirely, just hijack cars and punch random people in the face. That's certainly valid!

(Though you do miss out on gun shops, the joy of driving over a cop car with a Hummer, and ... uh... 2/3 of the city.)

Exactly. The missions in GTA games have always been wretched and they're still wretched, but they're the gamer tax you have to work through to unlock the real game.

[Sarkus]

Tom's review and the bug filled impressions that Bill has on Dubious Quality make me think the game is "half baked" in the sense of needing more time to work out all the bugs. I wonder if Take 2's situation had anything to do with it.

[Hans Lauring]

What situation and what bugs?

It's a very polished game and Tom just disagrees with some of Rockstars choices (like 200 songs that he doesn't care for).

[Squee]

Kind of a half-assed solution for the lack of a player radio station, but doesn't the 360 have a music player that can run during games by hitting the guide button or... Whatever the middle button is called? If you absolutely hate the in-game music, that would probably work well enough. Just need to pause it during cutscenes and such.

[Coca Cola Zero]

GTA4 is an overall good game and yet I still find myself disappointed by it for many of the same reasons as Tom. It just isn't as good as I was expecting based on the reviews and the anticipation of it being the first GTA on now-current gen consoles.

In addition to Tom's list of issues (and I think he went easy on some things, the minigames aren't just meh, they are downright horrible. Completely unfun! Worse than a lot of shitty Flash implementions I've seen of the same games), one of the most surprising things about GTA4 to me is some of the things that have always existed in GTA games but they haven't bothered to fix.

Example: When you come out of a building after a reload and there isn't a goddamn single car or person in sight for miles for a while no matter the time of day. I suppose that happens for a reason that is semi-valid (need time to stream in the car/people geometry, etc) but there are many ways you can handle that situation that don't involve the city being a ghost town for up to a minute.

Another example: Browsing clothes and other items at stores. Watching the same damn 10 second animation every time you try on a new pair of sunglasses is MUCH WORSE THAN REAL SHOPPING. And I hate real shopping!

Another example: Completely inconsistent breakability of things. When I went to collect the protection money in Vlad's first mission it told me to break the window with something. I spent like 5 minutes trying to break the door (which is made of glass and through which I was speaking with the man inside) down with everything from a car to a knife to a gun, I ran around trying to pick up the stray boxes and trashcans in the area figuring maybe I was supposed to use those (turns out you can't pick them up)). Eventually I try the window next to the door (made of glass, just like the door) and even my fist can break those.... wait, so when they said WINDOW, they meant WINDOW, and not WINDOWED DOOR... AHHH!! how very 1990s adventure gamey!


Misc:

I like the car physics a lot less in this one than any of the previous ones, let alone other GTA-ish games. You can call me out all you want for not being good at driving in GTA4 and whip out your GTA4 driving e-peen, but driving was simply more fun in the older GTAs. Part of this is the car physics, part of this is simply that there doesn't seem to be nearly as much world geometry that exists soley for the purpose of doing insane stunts off of it (another victim of making the game more 'realistic'?). And the on-foot controls are just horrible. Nico moves way too slow by default and the button-mash sprint is so much worse than just holding down a sprint button, because it makes it difficult to sprint while doing anything else, which wasn't a problem in the earlier games. Also the forced-slow-walk-when-talking thing was dumb in Gears of War, even dumber here. Why do I have to walk at 1mph when I'm talking on the cellphone?


So, yeah. GTA4 is a good game, but I just don't understand the overwhelming praise it is getting.

[Mordrak]

Originally Posted by Tom

But Rockstar is still making Grand Theft Auto 3 after people like Volition and Realtime Worlds have taken Rockstar's own formula and dramatically improved it. Where are the awesomely chaotic street battles, the dizzying vistas, the thrill of exploration, the streamlined RPG progression, the car collection subgame, and the personal customization? And where is my dang media players so I can listen to my own music?

Keep it up Tom! I need the strength of will to wait a few months in case of a PC announcement. Haha.

But, I really don't see what's so great about Saint's Row. Admittedly I haven't played it, but the trailer for Saint's Row 2 makes it look so garish and a city that looks like it was artificially constructed rather developed over time.

I think I'll miss some of the character customization of San Andreas, once I get around to actually playing it.

Originally Posted by Coca Cola Zero

And the on-foot controls are just horrible. Nico moves way too slow by default and the button-mash sprint is so much worse than just holding down a sprint button, because it makes it difficult to sprint while doing anything else, which wasn't a problem in the earlier games.

Why is this a problem in GTA4 and not the other games? I've seen this complaint before. I just finished San Andreas and the tapping to sprint is really effective because it adds urgency to on foot escapes by tying the characters endurance partially to my thumb tapping endurance. It's just enough physicality to make it interesting, but not enough to be annoying (at least to me).

[Coca Cola Zero]

Originally Posted by Mordrak

Why is this a problem in GTA4 and not the other games? I've seen this complaint before. I just finished San Andreas and the tapping to sprint is really effective because it adds urgency to on foot escapes by tying the characters endurance partially to my thumb tapping endurance. It's just enough physicality to make it interesting, but not enough to be annoying (at least to me).

The movement speed in GTA4 is just across the board slower (well, to be fair, I haven't measured it and haven't played any of the GTA3 games in a while, but it FEELS a fuck-of-a-lot slower than I remember), so super sprint in GTA4 is like just basic sprint in the older games, you pretty much have to be slamming the button down while running to be moving fast enough for my liking (and I'm talking about just basic getting around speed, not running-from-a-flaming-wreck speed), whereas in the earlier games I almost never bothered with the tap-sprint and would just use the hold-button-down sprint and that was fast enough for most situations.

[Mordrak]

Originally Posted by Coca Cola Zero

The movement speed in GTA4 is just across the board slower (well, to be fair, I haven't measured it and haven't played any of the GTA3 games in a while, but it FEELS a fuck-of-a-lot slower than I remember), so super sprint in GTA4 is like just basic sprint in the older games, you pretty much have to be slamming the button down while running to be moving fast enough for my liking, whereas in the earlier games I almost never bothered with the tap-sprint and would just use the hold-button-down sprint and that was fast enough.

Ahh, gotcha. That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[JetLagger]

Originally Posted by TomChick

The music is also disappointing, partly because the song list is so…so…I don't know, full of stuff I don't know or don't care about.

I wouldn't call it disappointing, it does have the Stooges "I wanna be your dog". I do have an issue with the Tuff Gong station though, all Marley? How about mixing it up a bit with some Tosh, Steel Pulse, Inner Circle, anything from "The Harder They Come" soundtrack by Jimmy Cliff or maybe even some Burning Spear. There's more reggae music out there then just dreadlock rasta Marley.

-Tim

[Wendelius]

Originally Posted by JetLagger

I do have an issue with the Tuff Gong station though, all Marley?

I love that station. It's just so cool driving through the city at night (even better in the rain) listening to Bob Marley. Doesn't make me want to punch people in the face and steal their cars but that's OK. :)

Wendy