The Sims 3

[Jason Cross]

Originally Posted by Harkonis

I dont' really mind micropayments and the like, but it really seems like they might be going a bit over the top with this one.

Yeah. They're leaving out the "micro."

I directly blame Jeff Green for this bullshit.

[NuclearWinter]

Originally Posted by Skipper

But user made content is free right? Even the stuff uploaded to EA?

EA have supposedly made user created content a lot more difficult with Sims 3. I'm sure it will come in time but unlike the previous games they are not providing any external content creation tools. I could be wrong but my understanding is that the stuff you can share in the game are just objects that have been styled with your own colour sets and patterns, not entirely new objects.

[Skipper]

What?!? That can't be right. One huge swath of their users are builder types. They would disassociate that entire community. I know they also had the builders workshop for top folks a while back. Are you saying that was to create the micro stuff that only EA is going to profit off of?

Nuclear I really hope that's not the case. Half the reason to keep playing the game is all the cool stuff users make or mod into the game.

[zengonzo]

Well, Sims 3 was already promising to make customization broader, requiring less external content .. But its looking like that just means applying different color patterns - which should've been a feature in 2, honestly.

[Jeff Green]

Originally Posted by Jason Cross

Yeah. They're leaving out the "micro."

I directly blame Jeff Green for this bullshit.

Totally. Rod wanted to give it all away, like, FOR FREE. We were in a meeting and I was all like, "Hello! English guy! We can make BANK off this stuff! No wonder your empire declined! Here in America we believe in capitalism!"

So my idea to nickel-and-dime you guys to death went through and I got like a big huge bonus and a new car.

[NuclearWinter]

Originally Posted by Skipper

What?!? That can't be right. One huge swath of their users are builder types. They would disassociate that entire community. I know they also had the builders workshop for top folks a while back. Are you saying that was to create the micro stuff that only EA is going to profit off of?

Nuclear I really hope that's not the case. Half the reason to keep playing the game is all the cool stuff users make or mod into the game.

I'm just going by what I've read on the official forums. See topics like this:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/s...terns-ts3.html

Most info on this came from an event that EA ran for some members of the creation community, so it's hard to know for sure. I'm certain the community will manage to figure something out and build their own tools anyway, it's probably just going to take longer.

[Rob_Merritt]

Considering the stuff packs are prices at around $1 an item, this to me seems cheaper since I can buy only the items I want instead of spend $20 and getting a bunch of things I'll never use.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by Skipper

What?!? That can't be right. One huge swath of their users are builder types.

If by "huge" you mean "relatively small," I agree. Hardcore modding people always overestimate the proportion of the gaming community that does that sort of stuff, and in an ultra-casual game like the Sims, yeah, your mom isn't creating custom items.

[zengonzo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Green

So my idea to nickel-and-dime you guys to death went through and I got like a big huge bonus and a new car.

In SimPoints, or as a code to download?

[Skipper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Green

So my idea to nickel-and-dime you guys to death went through and I got like a big huge bonus and a new car.

So what I'm reading is you can now buy a decent gaming rig that doesn't have problems, get home quicker, and get Eggbert fully decked out in Ulduar gear.

Because if not, whats the point of a bonus and new car sir?

[triggercut]

User created content was a lot more difficult in Sims 2 than it was in the original game, too. Those of us losers who visited places like TSR and MTS and MTS2 regularly should be able to remember the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments because Sims 2 was so damn difficult to mod compared to the first game...

...but eventually the mod community caught up. EA also released some helpful mod tools down the line as well, but at the point they did that a lot of the more skilled modding types had already figured out work arounds as it was.

I have a feeling we'll see the same model here: modders will make slow, steady progress, and after a year or so--an expansion or two--we'll see official mod tools make the game easier for us luddites to create custom content for. Give JG and RH a little credit for understanding the success of the franchise.

[zengonzo]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

If by "huge" you mean "relatively small," I agree. Hardcore modding people always overestimate the proportion of the gaming community that does that sort of stuff, and in an ultra-casual game like the Sims, yeah, your mom isn't creating custom items.

Maybe he should've said 'important' - as lots of people like to download from the relatively small group of creators.

I'm pretty sure most folks picked up a Space Ghost to live with, or a DeLorean to drive to work, or whatever. It might not've been full content creation, but most players loved to add stuff to their game.

[triggercut]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

If by "huge" you mean "relatively small," I agree. Hardcore modding people always overestimate the proportion of the gaming community that does that sort of stuff, and in an ultra-casual game like the Sims, yeah, your mom isn't creating custom items.

I don't think you quite recognize how large the Sims 2 modding community was at it's peak. Lemme put it this way: you take all the Oblivion, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Total War, and Fallout 3 modders combined, multiply them by 10, and you've got maybe a tenth of the population of active Sims 2 modders at the peak of that game's sales and popularity.

...not only that, but while Mom may not be creating custom content herself, she's damn sure downloading it from ModTheSims or TheSimsResource.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by zengonzo

I'm pretty sure most folks picked up a Space Ghost to live with, or a DeLorean to drive to work, or whatever. It might not've been full content creation, but most players loved to add stuff to their game.

I think you're still overestimating. I bet most people didn't even know you could download stuff from online.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by triggercut

I don't think you quite recognize how large the Sims 2 modding community was at it's peak. Lemme put it this way: you take all the Oblivion, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Total War, and Fallout 3 modders combined, multiply them by 10, and you've got maybe a tenth of the population of active Sims 2 modders at the peak of that game's sales and popularity.

Sure, but The Sims 2 sold orders of magnitude more copies than those games. You can be vastly larger than the Oblivion modding community while still being a tiny fraction of the Sims 2 player base.

[triggercut]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

Sure, but The Sims 2 sold orders of magnitude more copies than those games. You can be vastly larger than the Oblivion modding community while still being a tiny fraction of the Sims 2 player base.

The lure of custom content is what you're totally missing here. Even if you don't create it, the fact that it's out there and both easy to access and easy to install for Sims2 continues to drive sales of that game.

Again, I don't think you have an accurate grasp of just how many people are grabbing stuff from big Sims2 mod repositories. Those sites generate millions of unique hits per week.

I think you'd be surprised at how many casual non-gamers-except-for-The Sims know *exactly* how and where to look and utilize player-created content in their games.

[Skipper]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

If by "huge" you mean "relatively small," I agree. Hardcore modding people always overestimate the proportion of the gaming community that does that sort of stuff, and in an ultra-casual game like the Sims, yeah, your mom isn't creating custom items.

True, but the communities of people that revolve around those "relatively small (number)" of builders have formed rather large sites online. I haven't been keeping up on the game development but this is one item that's rather annoying to me. I guess we will see how much applying new textures to the objects keeps things "fresh."

The game isn't out yet, I'm not going to worry too much until I see what's there and we can guage the reaction from everyone in the current sims communities.

[roBurky]

Yeh, if you look at the places on the web where the people who play Sims 2 and only Sims 2 hang out and talk about it, they all use purely custom skins and so on.

[Xemu]

I don't mind the micropayments at all, unless they preclude the Sims 2 style expansions. Those added so much new gameplay and systems they seemed well worth the money.

What's driving me crazy now is the torrented version. I am MORE than happy to give EA my money to play the game. What is driving me crazy is that I'm being punished for doing so by having to wait an extra 2 weeks to play.

[Rod Humble]

FYI, no its designed to be much much easier to share user content in the Sims 3. Uploading from within the game to the launcher making it easier to browse and install custom content. In addition the game has several tools built in that make it easier for regular players (instead of just core modders) to make their own stuff.

Thats one of the key features of The Sims why would we want to make it harder?

In addition we open up a whole bunch of the game to modders that I think will impress people. Not sure where this idea that it was harder came from. Newer, yes, different yes but not harder.

[NuclearWinter]

Thanks Rod, that's great to hear. So will it be possible for content creators to make new meshes?

[Rod Humble]

Originally Posted by NuclearWinter

Thanks Rod, that's great to hear. So will it be possible for content creators to make new meshes?

Similar to Sims 2, the new formats will start out hard and get easier as the team works with the modders and updates/releases tools. Meshes are at the high end of hard (as you would expect). I just went down and asked the (very tired) Sims 3 team leads. It is very high on their agenda.

edit to be clear. Making meshes to put in the game is not that hard, its getting everything to work perfectly throughout the game that is the tough part.

[NuclearWinter]

Thanks again, that sounds a lot more positive than the stuff I've read on some of the community sites.

The DLC on release day thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'm looking forward to getting my copy of the game. I'm unlikely to purchase object packs myself (unless they introduce new interactions), but I hope you guys will continue to release the more substantial expansion packs with new features as you did with the previous games.

[Rod Humble]

Originally Posted by NuclearWinter

Thanks again, that sounds a lot more positive than the stuff I've read on some of the community sites.

The DLC on release day thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'm looking forward to getting my copy of the game. I'm unlikely to purchase object packs myself (unless they introduce new interactions), but I hope you guys will continue to release the more substantial expansion packs with new features as you did with the previous games.

Thanks! I assure you, there will be fully featured very large expansions.

[Pogo]

So how much time should we expect to wait before we can create characters with nipples and pubes?

[Rod Humble]

Originally Posted by Pogo

So how much time should we expect to wait before we can create characters with nipples and pubes?

Given the priorities of modders, learning the system, testing time, audience demand etc I would say .......... Day 1.

:)

[Skipper]

Excellent news on the modding Rod. I mean that it will all be available at some point, not the part about nipples and pubes. That's of low concern. ;)


<immediately looks online for the user working on the nipple and pube mod>

[cliffski]

Originally Posted by secretary

I guess if the thoroughly overpriced Stuff Packs sold, this is the next logical step.

If they sold well, then they were not overpriced. For any price, some people think it is too high, others too low. Most companies are smart enough to pick the right price.

[zengonzo]

Originally Posted by Rod Humble

In addition the game has several tools built in that make it easier for regular players (instead of just core modders) to make their own stuff.

This is actually what I was referring to earlier - what does actually that mean, beyond creating sets of patterns that can be deployed to various objects? Is there actually some way to tweak meshes, or combine primitives?

[thinkingork]

Originally Posted by Rod Humble

Given the priorities of modders, learning the system, testing time, audience demand etc I would say .......... Day 1.

:)

I think you are underestimating ( or overetimating? ) your audience. Censor removal tool is out already.