New Fallout 3 Info

[Angie Gallant]

Originally Posted by Draiken

Originally Posted by Everyone else

It's just sad now.

[Squee]

Some new-ish really low quality footage, link definitely not horked from NMA. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/u...es/251221.html

Kind of a shame he didn't use that sort of thing for their E3 combat demo. This one was a bit more interesting.

[Balsamic]

They spoiled the vault exit; I wasn't expecting that. I dug the welding mask, and it was great to see VATs in action on a non-hacked character. This game looks like it's shaping up nicely.

[bago]

BUT I LOVDED THAT ONE RAD-SCORPION! I lovded him so much! Bethe$da made me kill him!

[jeansberg]

That rag-tag armor he snatched from the raider was definitely a nice touch.

[Kunikos]

Originally Posted by BobJustBob

Hey Draikin, post a pic of yourself.

Steel yourself before you see the face of madness.

[Kunikos]

Originally Posted by Squee

Some new-ish really low quality footage, link definitely not horked from NMA. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/u...es/251221.html

Kind of a shame he didn't use that sort of thing for their E3 combat demo. This one was a bit more interesting.

Cool video. I liked how they showed the inventory system a bit more this time and a few of the things you can wear.

[Prodigy]

Originally Posted by Draikin

Pete is lying.

Maybe they're just working on the game and, you know, things evolve and change.

[Sol Invictus]

Eurogamer preview by Christian Donlan:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=211357

"Bad news first: when it comes to dialogue, Fallout 3 remains something of a stubborn throwback, unwilling to step away from traditional one-on-one interrogation mechanics and explore the new possibilities of a post-Mass Effect world. With no hint of radial selection or keyword attitude choices which seemed likely to become the RPG's version on Halo's rechargeable shield - a genre standard by virtue of near-unanimous theft - instead, a quick introductory conversation with the mayor of Megaton reveals that Fallout 3 is sticking with a system largely unchanged from the days of Monkey Island. "

Wait. Why is that bad? There's nothing wrong with that 'stubborn throwback' with which to begin. Why reinvent the wheel? Mass Effect's dialogue system, although 'interesting' and 'sleek', was far from what they advertised it to be. I see nothing wrong with Fallout 3's dialogue system. If anything, all Mass Effect's dialogue system does is remove the descriptors by replacing them with [EMOTION]. Whoop de doo.

"It's this clash of unpolished presentation and strong storytelling that may ultimately define what you make of Fallout 3. From what we've seen, however, it's tempting to suggest that Bethesda has unwittingly taken the game's theme of retro-futurism too much to heart. Confusing as it seems, Fallout 3 may represent the future of yesterday's RPGs, going back to when they were cruel, stubborn, and yet filled with memorable stories, rather than an evolution of the flashy, friendly, and often anaemic titles of today."

Fallout 3 is TOO oldschool? What the hell?

[jeansberg]

That guy is an idiot. Both those things are positives. A dialog system with actual lines instead of keywords? Great. Memorable stories? Great.

[Rob_Merritt]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Fallout 3 is TOO oldschool? What the hell?

Thats a good point. Mass Effect is probably the gold standard now on how scifi rpgs should be done and Fallout 3 could be hurt because of expectations. I was wondering if sticking with tradition will ultimately hurt the title?

[Naeblis]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

Thats a good point. Mass Effect is probably the gold standard now on how scifi rpgs should be done and Fallout 3 could be hurt because of expectations. I was wondering if sticking with tradition will ultimately hurt the title?

Mass Effect a gold standard?

/Shudders

[Rob_Merritt]

Originally Posted by Naeblis

Mass Effect a gold standard?

/Shudders

As far as conversation is concerned. There are problems with Mass Effect, but its conversation system is virtually universally praised.

[Sam Jones]

Originally Posted by Prodigy

Maybe they're just working on the game and, you know, things evolve and change.

Not even that - they didn't specifically design the game with a pacifist victory in mind, but it's a happy coincidence that it appears to be just about possible - i.e. the same as Fallout.

Accusing Pete of lying is retarded, but unsurprising given the accuser.

[jeansberg]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

As far as conversation is concerned. There are problems with Mass Effect, but its conversation system is virtually universally praised.

Some might like it, but I'm glad it's not what they're using for FO3.

[Dhruin]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

As far as conversation is concerned. There are problems with Mass Effect, but its conversation system is virtually universally praised.

Mass Effect's system is great for an action/RPG-lite to keep the pace flowing but it wouldn't be my choice for a deeper game with more complex dialogue.

[schurem]

Originally Posted by Dhruin

Mass Effect's system is great for an action/RPG-lite to keep the pace flowing but it wouldn't be my choice for a deeper game with more complex dialogue.

what makes you think FO3 will be a deeper game with more complex dialogue? what do you consider depth in a game anyway?

[Ed Solomon]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

As far as conversation is concerned. There are problems with Mass Effect, but its conversation system is virtually universally praised.

Universally praised? Then the universe is an idiot. I didn't mind the system, but only because dialogue didn't matter in Mass Effect. If it did matter, the fact that what your character actually said often did not resemble the shorthand you had to choose from would have pissed me off.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

As far as conversation is concerned. There are problems with Mass Effect, but its conversation system is virtually universally praised.

Are you kidding me? Their dialogue system was nothing but a glorified "press any key to continue," and was a huge step backwards compared to games that used to give you actual choice and influence on the outcome of a given dialogue. 95% of Mass Effect's dialog "choices" do nothing except give you paragon/renegade points. They don't change what you say, how you say it, or the other guy's response.

It's a very clever system that tricks people in to thinking it's good. But it's not good. If you don't believe me, go play the game, save before any conversation, and redo the conversation multiple times, selecting different options.

[Rob_Merritt]

I complained about that as well about Mass Effect on this forum on my recent replay. However most people don't even finish games, let alone replay an RPG multiple times in order to noticed that.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt

I complained about that as well about Mass Effect on this forum on my recent replay. However most people don't even finish games, let alone replay an RPG multiple times in order to noticed that.

I'm sorry, that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Just because people don't notice it's bad doesn't mean I want it taking over and becoming the defacto standard in games. It's bad enough most complexity and choice is being siphoned out of games without nuking the dialogue systems in western RPGs as well.

[wigglestick]

Originally Posted by Charles

I'm sorry, that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Just because people don't notice it's bad doesn't mean I want it taking over and becoming the defacto standard in games. It's bad enough most complexity and choice is being siphoned out of games without nuking the dialogue systems in western RPGs as well.

I was thinking along some general lines about things like this the other day.

If they didn't have voiceovers for all of the dialogue in the game, there would be room for, you know, actual divergent conversation trees.

Or, shit, maybe they could switch development to PS3 so they could use Blue-Ray.

[MattKeil]

Originally Posted by Charles

It's a very clever system that tricks people in to thinking it's good. But it's not good. If you don't believe me, go play the game, save before any conversation, and redo the conversation multiple times, selecting different options.

In my three playthroughs (Paragon, Renegade, and neutral), I noticed exactly this to a disturbing degree. Often the responses NPCs give to the Paragon and neutral dialogue choices are exactly the same.

[Zylon]

Originally Posted by MattKeil

In my three playthroughs (Paragon, Renegade, and neutral), I noticed exactly this to a disturbing degree. Often the responses NPCs give to the Paragon and neutral dialogue choices are exactly the same.

Haven't you heard? If you can't hear, see, and do everything in a single playthrough, that's like stealing from the player!

[Anaxagoras]

Originally Posted by Zylon

Haven't you heard? If you can't hear, see, and do everything in a single playthrough, that's like stealing from the player!

Where's that "Stop posting" animated gif when you need it?

[zengonzo]

Originally Posted by Zylon

Haven't you heard? If you can't hear, see, and do everything in a single playthrough, that's like stealing from the player!

Yeah, that's a pretty funny perspective. If someone's compulsive enough that they feel the need to open every door, that seems like it is on them.

I guess if I'm convinced enough that I could have chosen another option, it's just as good. In Mass Effect's case, I had the impression they were running short on time. I'd had a distinct sense of diminishing content about halfway through the game.

[Zylon]

Originally Posted by Anaxagoras

Where's that "Stop posting" animated gif when you need it?

Probably buried under a pile of "broken sarcasm detector" images.

[bago]

On my third playthrough I did all of the cerberus encounters in the correct order. At first they just seem like a bunch of random missions on random planets, but there actually is a long story to go with it.

[Kunikos]

Originally Posted by schurem

what makes you think FO3 will be a deeper game with more complex dialogue? what do you consider depth in a game anyway?

Branching quest trees with meaningful differences between choices, whether they are dialogs or actions. Also the things you do having different lasting impacts on the game world and characters within it.

[Prodigy]

Oddly enough this thread is 123 pages long and we're still not talking about Fallout 3.