Silent Hunter III, hardcore version

HRose · 09-24-2006, 08:03 AM

I wanted to go back playing with this sub simulation and while checking if there were new patches I noticed that the mod community is quite alive with some impressive, huge mods.

Now I have absolutely no clue about which mod could be better so I'm asking if there's someone more involved with the game that could explain better the differences between each mod.

One thing that impressed me, that I didn't know and that was already in the basic game is that there are three different ways to fire a torpedo. The first is the "gamey" one and is about locking a target and firing it, while the AI does all the work. Another is semi-manual and is about identifying the target, range, angle of bow and speed with some approximation and the last one is "full manual" and is about using some fancy rulers to plot the courses of the targets and calculate with precision all that is needed.

There's a crazy tutorial here that tries to explain manual targeting in detail but I also read other ones that employ different solutions or a different mix depending on the situation. For example there's another shorter one here.

The wiki is also quite useful and complete to find quickly informations on what you need and with clear descriptions.

The two most popular mods adding tons of fixes and realism tweaks seem to be these two:
- Grey Wolves
- NYGM Tonnage War

And both are quite huge. The first is a 700Mb download and the other 340Mb but with a new release coming soon.

Well, there's quite a bit to delve. This game is quite fascinating and it shows the difference between a "game" (that simulates only the traits that are supposed to be more fun) and a true "simulation" (that tries to go as close to the reality as possible in every detail).

This sim supports both and it's quite amazing to see that it is consistent enough to make the more realistic tactics work.

Has any of you managed to sink a ship in manual mode?

JMR · 09-24-2006, 10:03 AM

Manual targeting is a game unto itself and it can be a very gratifying experience when you start sinking ships without AI assistance. In the early days of SHIII the devs left out an in game map protractor tool to aid in determining AoB and so some intrepid users starting making their own whiz wheels and one even made a convenient flash version but eventually a protractor made it's way into the game in patch 1.3 or 1.4, I can't remember which. There was also a bunch of speed charts you can download as well but with the tools available now you can get by without that stuff. A good way to hone your skills is to setup a multiplayer game of just yourself vs. the AI and practice with a little bit of targeting assistance until you're able to do it with no computer help at all.

Kryten · 09-24-2006, 11:50 AM

I've been running Grey Wolves for several weeks now and I love it, it's well worth the download. I haven't quite gotten to manual targetting (I still like seeing ships sink!) but might, one day.

HRose · 09-24-2006, 12:24 PM

Well, the main download site is down and the other one is quite slow. It will take me weeks to get the whole thing.

scharmers · 09-24-2006, 12:25 PM

Grey Wolves is the bomb, but it can be hard to get. The main site download has always reached its capacity, but the other mirror works albeit slowly.

Pishtaco · 09-24-2006, 01:05 PM

I used to play fairly hardcore. I'm not sure what you mean by "full manual" though; surely you are still allowed to use the targetting computer?

What I enjoyed was turning off the cheesy radio messages about single ships and instead prowled the sealanes, diving frequently to listen for traffic, making guesses as to range and heading and plotting intercepts.

Unfortunately the game interface made it hard to play this way. There was no way to automate diving every half-hour to listen and the AI sonarman was generally useless. The protractor mods made plotting courses possible, but my main problem was that there was no way in-game to note the time that you made different audio or visual sightings. So I had all my lines and stuff on the game map with those numbered marks, and I had a piece of paper by the computer where I wrote the time for each mark. This got too annoying and I stopped playing. Anyone know if later mods or patches have improved this?

Andy Mahood · 09-24-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scharmers

Grey Wolves is the bomb, but it can be hard to get. The main site download has always reached its capacity, but the other mirror works albeit slowly.

There's a new option. I just wrote a column on the Grey Wolves mod and, as a result, the full download is now available on FilePlanet.

HRose · 09-24-2006, 02:09 PM

Without support for Getright that's not an option for me...

And I wish there was an article or forum thread that explained the main differences between the two mods.

jpinard · 01-05-2007, 01:16 AM

The brand new Grey Wolves supermod was completed and uploaded for public use on 12-17-2006. It's available via torrent here (700+ Meg): http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/GWX.torrent

Also grab the patch they added on 12-23-2006 (look halfway down) http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/GWX/

Jason McCullough · 01-05-2007, 11:39 AM

Ok, this does sound like an air traffic controller game.

Skipper · 01-05-2007, 11:50 AM

I tried manual with the help of someone's site back when you had to have the mod to give you the protractor. It was a very nice site write up, I don't remember the page.

After a few missed shots I went back to the targeting computer though. I liked the realism, but I'll leave the real tracking to submariners. For me, the fun of the game was the maneuver, the pop shot, and the subsequent chase and sweating that was associated with multiple destroyers breathing down your neck.

JMR · 01-05-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason McCullough

Ok, this does sound like an air traffic controller game.

Oh go back to playing with your D&D figurines.

Skipper, I think the page you're referring to is Wazoo's Manual Charting & Targeting Tutorial

Skipper · 01-05-2007, 11:55 AM

Did either of the mods add much in the way of multiplayer? I tired it for a bit with a buddy, it's all scenario based. But the problem was, if I remember correctly, we had just as hard a time knowing where each other was on the map, much less where the enemy was. We eventually found you could take an external view of the sub and see a small icon on the top of the water. using that you could, eventually, find your friend, assuming your sonar operator got you in the ballpark.

But it was still fun. And I would think one of these mods might have something they added?

Hawkeye Fierce · 01-05-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper

I tried manual with the help of someone's site back when you had to have the mod to give you the protractor. It was a very nice site write up, I don't remember the page.

After a few missed shots I went back to the targeting computer though. I liked the realism, but I'll leave the real tracking to submariners. For me, the fun of the game was the maneuver, the pop shot, and the subsequent chase and sweating that was associated with multiple destroyers breathing down your neck.

Same here. Manual plotting my torpedo trajectories was kind of cool a few times, and was satisfying when I could semi-consistently hit the target, but it's not really what I wanted to be fiddling with. A real Uboat captain had folks to do that for him, anyway, right?

I would still occasionally make small adjustments to the auto-targeting though, like changing the depth of a torpedo in an attempt to break the back of my target, etc.

schurem · 01-05-2007, 12:06 PM

I rarely if ever play simulation games on 'full real'. They hardly ever make up for the limitations of the pc platform (small viewing angle anyone?) and, in the case of silent hunter, have you do stuff real life submariners could and would do on occasion, but probably most often had crewmembers do.
'air traffic control simulation game' ? only if you want it that way baby! Roll on shIV!

caesarbear · 01-05-2007, 04:27 PM

I love it when sims have full realism. Being the captain amounts to reading radio messages if you don't get your hands dirty.

Lurb · 01-05-2007, 04:39 PM

I rev. engineered the model file format, which made possible the tools to make new ships and stuff /flex.
Sadly that meant I never really got to actually play that much before I learned about Starforce the hard way... Should be getting a new rig soon, so I'll play this in the "old" one.

Thrag · 01-05-2007, 04:54 PM

Manual mode kills are very doable. It's been a while since I've played at all, but as someone mentioned earlier you really need to get one of the mods that adds a protractor.

It is really very satisfying at first, but it quickly becomes like work so I only played a few cruises that way.

caesarbear · 01-05-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrag

Manual mode kills are very doable. It's been a while since I've played at all, but as someone mentioned earlier you really need to get one of the mods that adds a protractor.

It was patched in.

DennyA · 01-06-2007, 05:22 PM

How does one install this without getting Starforced?

Lunch of Kong · 01-06-2007, 05:25 PM

If I remember, you install it to a spare computer that gets Starforced, but then you copy the files over to your real computer and run the cracked EXE.

jpinard · 01-06-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyA

How does one install this without getting Starforced?

SH3 of Splinter Cell?

I just installed the game, didn't reboot, immidiately copied the no CD files and I didn't get Starforce installed. I think... even if Starforce got installed, if you don't do the reboot with the normal exe it won't get locked in. The you can use the starforce removal tool and you're all set.

Kryten · 01-06-2007, 06:25 PM

It's install, (don't reboot or start the game), patch to the latest official version, (1.4b? - don't reboot or start the game) and then apply the crack files (now you can start the game). Works well.

moss_icon · 01-07-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Wong

If I remember, you install it to a spare computer that gets Starforced, but then you copy the files over to your real computer and run the cracked EXE.

howabout install the game as normal, run the starforce removal software, then install the cracked EXE? sounds easiser, although i can't confirm it works!

jpinard · 01-07-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moss_icon

howabout install the game as normal, run the starforce removal software, then install the cracked EXE? sounds easiser, although i can't confirm it works!

I'm not sure, but I think that doesn't jive with the game's registry settings and causes issues.

09-24-2006, 08:03 AM	#1
HRose Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: http://twitter.com/MrSkimpole Posts: 4,556	Silent Hunter III, hardcore version I wanted to go back playing with this sub simulation and while checking if there were new patches I noticed that the mod community is quite alive with some impressive, huge mods. Now I have absolutely no clue about which mod could be better so I'm asking if there's someone more involved with the game that could explain better the differences between each mod. One thing that impressed me, that I didn't know and that was already in the basic game is that there are three different ways to fire a torpedo. The first is the "gamey" one and is about locking a target and firing it, while the AI does all the work. Another is semi-manual and is about identifying the target, range, angle of bow and speed with some approximation and the last one is "full manual" and is about using some fancy rulers to plot the courses of the targets and calculate with precision all that is needed. There's a crazy tutorial here that tries to explain manual targeting in detail but I also read other ones that employ different solutions or a different mix depending on the situation. For example there's another shorter one here. The wiki is also quite useful and complete to find quickly informations on what you need and with clear descriptions. The two most popular mods adding tons of fixes and realism tweaks seem to be these two: - Grey Wolves - NYGM Tonnage War And both are quite huge. The first is a 700Mb download and the other 340Mb but with a new release coming soon. Well, there's quite a bit to delve. This game is quite fascinating and it shows the difference between a "game" (that simulates only the traits that are supposed to be more fun) and a true "simulation" (that tries to go as close to the reality as possible in every detail). This sim supports both and it's quite amazing to see that it is consistent enough to make the more realistic tactics work. Has any of you managed to sink a ship in manual mode?

09-24-2006, 10:03 AM	#2
JMR Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,381	Manual targeting is a game unto itself and it can be a very gratifying experience when you start sinking ships without AI assistance. In the early days of SHIII the devs left out an in game map protractor tool to aid in determining AoB and so some intrepid users starting making their own whiz wheels and one even made a convenient flash version but eventually a protractor made it's way into the game in patch 1.3 or 1.4, I can't remember which. There was also a bunch of speed charts you can download as well but with the tools available now you can get by without that stuff. A good way to hone your skills is to setup a multiplayer game of just yourself vs. the AI and practice with a little bit of targeting assistance until you're able to do it with no computer help at all.

09-24-2006, 11:50 AM	#3
Kryten Mad Chester Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth GamerTag:Kryten NZ Posts: 1,409	I've been running Grey Wolves for several weeks now and I love it, it's well worth the download. I haven't quite gotten to manual targetting (I still like seeing ships sink!) but might, one day.

09-24-2006, 12:24 PM	#4
HRose Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: http://twitter.com/MrSkimpole Posts: 4,556	Well, the main download site is down and the other one is quite slow. It will take me weeks to get the whole thing.

09-24-2006, 12:25 PM	#5
scharmers Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: I love this thread so much Posts: 3,895	Grey Wolves is the bomb, but it can be hard to get. The main site download has always reached its capacity, but the other mirror works albeit slowly.

09-24-2006, 01:05 PM	#6
Pishtaco Hustle Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 370	I used to play fairly hardcore. I'm not sure what you mean by "full manual" though; surely you are still allowed to use the targetting computer? What I enjoyed was turning off the cheesy radio messages about single ships and instead prowled the sealanes, diving frequently to listen for traffic, making guesses as to range and heading and plotting intercepts. Unfortunately the game interface made it hard to play this way. There was no way to automate diving every half-hour to listen and the AI sonarman was generally useless. The protractor mods made plotting courses possible, but my main problem was that there was no way in-game to note the time that you made different audio or visual sightings. So I had all my lines and stuff on the game map with those numbered marks, and I had a piece of paper by the computer where I wrote the time for each mark. This got too annoying and I stopped playing. Anyone know if later mods or patches have improved this?

09-24-2006, 02:09 PM	#8
HRose Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: http://twitter.com/MrSkimpole Posts: 4,556	Without support for Getright that's not an option for me... And I wish there was an article or forum thread that explained the main differences between the two mods.

01-05-2007, 01:16 AM	#9
jpinard Keeper of the Frop Bog New Romantic Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Enceladus, Saturn Posts: 7,158	The brand new Grey Wolves supermod was completed and uploaded for public use on 12-17-2006. It's available via torrent here (700+ Meg): http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/GWX.torrent Also grab the patch they added on 12-23-2006 (look halfway down) http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/GWX/

01-05-2007, 11:39 AM	#10
Jason McCullough World's End Supernova Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 26,577	Ok, this does sound like an air traffic controller game.

01-05-2007, 11:50 AM	#11
Skipper Still king of lost New Romantic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in an open field, west of a big white house Posts: 7,055	I tried manual with the help of someone's site back when you had to have the mod to give you the protractor. It was a very nice site write up, I don't remember the page. After a few missed shots I went back to the targeting computer though. I liked the realism, but I'll leave the real tracking to submariners. For me, the fun of the game was the maneuver, the pop shot, and the subsequent chase and sweating that was associated with multiple destroyers breathing down your neck.

01-05-2007, 11:55 AM	#13
Skipper Still king of lost New Romantic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in an open field, west of a big white house Posts: 7,055	Did either of the mods add much in the way of multiplayer? I tired it for a bit with a buddy, it's all scenario based. But the problem was, if I remember correctly, we had just as hard a time knowing where each other was on the map, much less where the enemy was. We eventually found you could take an external view of the sub and see a small icon on the top of the water. using that you could, eventually, find your friend, assuming your sonar operator got you in the ballpark. But it was still fun. And I would think one of these mods might have something they added?

01-05-2007, 12:06 PM	#15
schurem Mad Chester Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,030	I rarely if ever play simulation games on 'full real'. They hardly ever make up for the limitations of the pc platform (small viewing angle anyone?) and, in the case of silent hunter, have you do stuff real life submariners could and would do on occasion, but probably most often had crewmembers do. 'air traffic control simulation game' ? only if you want it that way baby! Roll on shIV!

01-05-2007, 04:27 PM	#16
caesarbear Social Worker Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 4,022	I love it when sims have full realism. Being the captain amounts to reading radio messages if you don't get your hands dirty.

01-05-2007, 04:39 PM	#17
Lurb Spinning Toe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 859	I rev. engineered the model file format, which made possible the tools to make new ships and stuff /flex. Sadly that meant I never really got to actually play that much before I learned about Starforce the hard way... Should be getting a new rig soon, so I'll play this in the "old" one.

01-05-2007, 04:54 PM	#18
Thrag Neo Acoustic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco, Gamertag: Thrag Posts: 1,805	Manual mode kills are very doable. It's been a while since I've played at all, but as someone mentioned earlier you really need to get one of the mods that adds a protractor. It is really very satisfying at first, but it quickly becomes like work so I only played a few cruises that way.

01-06-2007, 05:22 PM	#20
DennyA New Romantic Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattlish. XBL:Editer PSN:DennyA These are my opinions, not my employer's, but they should be yours. Posts: 8,954	How does one install this without getting Starforced?

01-06-2007, 05:25 PM	#21
Lunch of Kong How To Go Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, TX. XBOX: Wonginator Posts: 10,937	If I remember, you install it to a spare computer that gets Starforced, but then you copy the files over to your real computer and run the cracked EXE.

01-06-2007, 06:25 PM	#23
Kryten Mad Chester Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth GamerTag:Kryten NZ Posts: 1,409	It's install, (don't reboot or start the game), patch to the latest official version, (1.4b? - don't reboot or start the game) and then apply the crack files (now you can start the game). Works well.

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Silent Hunter III, hardcore version