KotoR I or II - Are old Jedi more powerful?

[mtkafka]

Maybe this should be in Movies section.. but I finally finished Kotor II ... pretty cool sequel.

Anyway, are the the old Republic Jedi/Sith more powerful than Luke, Vader, Yoda and Sidious? I even think my main character in Kotor II who got to level 27 at the end could kick Vader's ass. I was uber... slicing up Dark Jedi easy.

etc

[Moggraider]

No, I have no reason to think so. Games always exaggerate the player's role. That's why you always kill thousands of soldiers in WWII FPS's and shoot down countless pilots in sims. That doesn't mean SNES Super Star Wars Luke is stronger than movie Luke.

[Jackstar]

Superman vs. Mighty Mouse: FIGHT!

[Lunch of Kong]

Originally Posted by Moggraider

shoot down countless pilots in sims

That's only unrealistic for Allied pilots. There were a few dozen German WWII pilots who ended their careers each with well over 100 aerial victories.

[AMUSIX]

Actually, I seem to recall that Lucas had said the old jedi were more powerful. He always referred to what we were seeing in the prequels as "the end of the jedi era" that they were losing their power, sort of their 'sunset'. He also said that, until the prequels, the only jedi the fans had seen were an inexperienced boy, an old man, an ancient on the verge of death, a corrupted elder, and the only jedi in his 'prime' is half machine.

So, I'd say that, yes, pretty much any jedi in KotoR could have kicked Vader's ass.

-AM Urbanek

[Bill Dungsroman]

Yeah, and Dooku was so badass because he had learned and adopted the old ways of dueling with a lightsaber, IIRC. Plus, with all the Jedi and Sith temples like Dantooine and Korriban, you'd have to assume the larger numbers (and competition/training) yielded better Jedi/Sith.

[John Reynolds]

Phantom Menace's novelization had a passage that Quo Gon (sp?) was taken completely aback by Maul's first attack in the desert because nothing in his Jedi training prepared him for its ferocity. The Jedi had become too complacent, too comfortable in their position within the Republic, IMO.

[Coca Cola Zero]

There was a direct reference to the fact that the Jedi were losing their powers within one of the prequel movies. I don't recall the exact line, but it came up during one of those Yoda/Mace Windu conversations.

[roguefrog]

Didn't one of the Darth's have Force Nuke? Learned from Ancient Sith lollygaggle.

[DrDel]

Originally Posted by roguefrog

Didn't one of the Darth's have Force Nuke? Learned from Ancient Sith lollygaggle.

what's Force Nuke? A jedi power that releases a nuclear explosion at the wave of the hand? Did they have nukes in their day?

[roguefrog]

Nah. Just a name for a force power that kills everything in a humongous radius.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Originally Posted by DrDel

what's Force Nuke? A jedi power that releases a nuclear explosion at the wave of the hand? Did they have nukes in their day?

KotOR2 plot device.

[Sectoid]

I don't know. Vader's a Force Crush spammer. It could be a tough fight....

[Balasarius]

I read that the most powerful Jedi was supposed to be Luke Skywalker at the end of the Yuuzhan-Vong era (or perhaps, even after that).

I have no examples of his power to share, sadly, only that he "was." Admittedly, some of the dark jedi did pretty sick stuff, like pulling a destroyed battle cruiser out of a star. O.o Not sure what Luke could possibly do to compete with that. But I like the idea of Luke becoming the strongest ever.

[SlyFrog]

Yes. Perhaps it's another bit of Lucas plot stupidity, but all of the talk about "the one," the guy who will bring balance to the force, and his kid who is incredibly strong with the force, does not exactly mesh with, "They're losing their power, and these guys are much weaker than the one's who came before."

Not suggesting anyone in this thread is wrong, because it is just like Lucas to try to say both without realizing the contradiction.

[Lee Johnson]

I don't know that they were losing their power so much as they were decadent, complacent, and in need of a spanking. Perhaps Anakin brought balance by providing the spanking, thereby achieving a desperately needed housecleaning, clearing the way for a new Jedi tradition, one less encumbered by thousands of generations of dogma.

/shrug

[Angie Gallant]

Originally Posted by Bill Dungsroman

KotOR2 plot device.

I don't recall that being specifically force anything. After all, Bao-Dur built the thing before you make him a Jedi.

[Jake Plane]

Call me crazy, but I think Luke could beat Kotor just by sitting down with it for 10 hours or so.

[Chris Woods]

Didn't Anakin (aka Darth Vader) have all those miti-bullshit things, so he would be the de-facto "most powerful jedi"?

I never really understood how all this is supposed to work. I guess Luke could, theoretically, have more miti-thingies because he never got his blood-sugar tested, or whatever they were doing in Ep I, but other then Luke or Leia no one could be stronger then Vader by the canon, right?

Oh, warning: this post basically spoils every single Star Wars movie at once.

Chris Woods

[Mike O'Malley]

Vader was the product of immaculate conception, kind of hard to top that particular Jedi move.

[Chris Nahr]

I think Lucas realized immediately after Ep1 that the concept of midichlorians was one of his dumbest ideas ever. Ep2 & 3 never mentioned them again, thankfully, so I guess we can safely ignore them.

[Jake Plane]

Midichlorians are megametaphors for what was wrong with the prequels. Their inclusion was unnecessary and took away a little of the magic from the first trilogy.

[Alan Au]

My X-Wing could totally beat your Y-Wing.

- Alan

[Lum]

The USS Enterprise could TOTALLY take out the Death Star.

[Raife]

Originally Posted by Lum

The USS Enterprise could TOTALLY take out the Death Star.

The CV-6 or the CVN-65?

[Brendan]

Call me Comic Book Guy but...
Could the fact that all the Jedi in the KOTOR universe were involved in a huge war not mean that they would be more conditioned for battle? The Jedi in the films were more ceremonial, sure they beat up a few funny looking robots but they had no experience actually fighting pitched battles against powerful enemy Jedi. In short I think the modern Jedi were better at drinking magic tea with raised pinkies and hob nobbing with the rich and famous than the ancient Jedi, and the ancient Jedi were a little better at kicking ass than the modern Jedi.

[Lum]

Originally Posted by Raife

The CV-6 or the CVN-65?

CVN-65. One nuclear-tipped Phoenix and it's buh-bye reactor port.

[Duality]

Originally Posted by Angie Gallant

I don't recall that being specifically force anything. After all, Bao-Dur built the thing before you make him a Jedi.

Might be referring more to Darth Nihilus' destruction of the Miraluka homeworld. From the sound of it, all life was pretty much wiped off the face of that planet.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Originally Posted by Duality

Might be referring more to Darth Nihilus' destruction of the Miraluka homeworld. From the sound of it, all life was pretty much wiped off the face of that planet.

No might be about it.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Originally Posted by Lee Johnson

I don't know that they were losing their power so much as they were decadent, complacent, and in need of a spanking.

Here is the line I referenced earlier, only now I went back to get the exact exchange:

YODA: Blind we are, if creation of this clone army we could
not see.

MACE WINDU: I think it is time to inform the Senate that
our ability to use the Force has diminished.

YODA: Only the Dark Lords of the Sith know of our weakness.
If informed the Senate is, multiply our adversaries will.