Our Man in Japan -- Mana in Japan

Kitsune · 09-09-2004, 03:43 AM

Our Man in Japan -- Mana in Japan
Consider this a public service announcement

Kalle · 09-09-2004, 05:10 AM

Your columns are always a good read, even though I'll never play the games you tend to write about.

Idar Thorvaldsen · 09-09-2004, 06:43 AM

So basically we get the uninteresting one translated? Great. Are any of the other Atelier games for the PS2?

Kunikos · 09-09-2004, 11:51 AM

Well-written, Kitsune! It keeps directly to the point and is the first of your columns that I have had no trouble reading all the way through and not getting lost. :shock: :lol:

Good job.

TomChick · 09-09-2004, 12:37 PM

Yeah, I want to play that Atelier thing. It sounds like a really cool twist, in a Harvest Moon meets RPG way: instead of playing the adventurer, you play the NPC who runs the shop where the adventurers buy their stuff.

-Tom

Matthew Gallant · 09-09-2004, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomChick

Yeah, I want to play that Atelier thing. It sounds like a really cool twist, in a Harvest Moon meets RPG way: instead of playing the adventurer, you play the NPC who runs the shop where the adventurers buy their stuff.

Pfft. Any idiot could come up with an idea like that.

:cry:

Doug Erickson · 09-09-2004, 05:45 PM

I think Moon was pretty much the definitive send-up of Japanese console RPG cliches.

That said, I want an RPG where I play the NPC that greets the heroic party as they come into town. "Welcome to Backwater!" I'll say, pressing the X button to add a passive-aggressive hint of danger to my voice, forewarning the hero to the Boss Monster lurking near the Church slash Save Point. Or maybe I'll press Triangle instead, to say "WELCOME to BACKWATER!" in a really fruity accent that sells the hero on the town's rustic charm, prompting him to buy additional Buster Swords or Slime Bangles.

As time progresses, my character can have some sort of existential revelation, sinking into depression and ultimately dementia, as indicated by a cute little collection of colored progress bars on the main menu. The end game will be a series of conversations with a giant space monster made of skulls and PVC, which is inevitably revealed to be the jailkeeper in the hell created to contain my character and who only can be defeated through a sequence of limericks.

Exciting, exciting stuff.

Oh, and Torneko was a shopkeeper before these atelier chicks. And Kitsune, it's not "Viorate", it's "Violet". Just sayin'!

Dirt · 09-09-2004, 05:53 PM

I'd rather play the BOSS character.

Kalle · 09-09-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt

I'd rather play the BOSS character.

Seems like a boring game premise to me. Spend 60 hours waiting around for the adventurer(s) to navigate brightly-coloured dungeons and loot crates, while you do the occasional ominous speech before captive hero, until the dumbasses finally reach your secret lair for the one and only fight in the game.

Chris Nahr · 09-10-2004, 01:27 AM

You might spend your time placing monsters in closets throughout the dungeon, though...

Warlord of Mars · 09-10-2004, 05:15 AM

That sounds like Dungeon Keeper.

Kitsune · 09-15-2004, 08:10 PM

Time. Time. Time. I forgot to reply to this when it was stickied!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idar Thorvaldsen

So basically we get the uninteresting one translated? Great. Are any of the other Atelier games for the PS2?

Yup. The ones I mentioned in the article are for the PS2 (Violet and Judie) as well as one more called Atelier Lily. All three of them are ideal candidates really, as they are all about the same quality and the Atelier series is so unique I don't think translating more than one would heart. Basically like Harvest Moon that way. The Harvest Moon games have been the nichest of the niche for a long time, and then all of a sudden A Wonderful Life sells 400,000 copies. Just goes to show if you hang in there with a good plan long enough, sales rewards can be on your end and Atelier has similar challenges. Again, I don't get why they chose this one in particular, when the others are so much more likely to impress. Nippon Ichi really doesn't need mediocre games in their to depress their nascent brand.

Quote:

I think Moon was pretty much the definitive send-up of Japanese console RPG cliches.

Hell yeah! I like the way you think. Any reason why now? I seem to remember you have a stickler for Giftpia, though the two aren't all that similar.

Quote:

That said, I want an RPG where I play the NPC that greets the heroic party as they come into town. "Welcome to Backwater!" I'll say, pressing the X button to add a passive-aggressive hint of danger to my voice, forewarning the hero to the Boss Monster lurking near the Church slash Save Point. Or maybe I'll press Triangle instead, to say "WELCOME to BACKWATER!" in a really fruity accent that sells the hero on the town's rustic charm, prompting him to buy additional Buster Swords or Slime Bangles.

He he he. Remember that one kid in the original Suikoden you could recruit and all he did was stand outside the castle and say the name to visitors? What was his name?

The sad part about what you suggest is I actually had a tiny twinge of wanting to play a game like that. Of course, it'd need to be a short, cheap game. You could even get Game Overs if you welcomed villains to the town to scout out how to raize the hero's village or something. Okay, I'm overthinking this! :P

Heard the new DQVIII info, BTW?

Quote:

The end game will be a series of conversations with a giant space monster made of skulls and PVC, which is inevitably revealed to be the jailkeeper in the hell created to contain my character and who only can be defeated through a sequence of limericks.

*knits brow* I have the strangest feeling you're referencing something here.

Quote:

Oh, and Torneko was a shopkeeper before these atelier chicks. And Kitsune, it's not "Viorate", it's "Violet". Just sayin'!

...

Whoops.

First person to make the "r" joke dies.

-Kitsune

Warlord of Mars · 09-16-2004, 03:22 AM

Godzi-err, nevermind...

mouselock · 05-17-2005, 07:05 PM

*sigh*

So this is almost out it seems, and I come here to see if Kitsune has posted about it (because I believe he has) and find out that it's maybe not as good as I hoped.

I can't tell, Kitsune, did you not like this installment because it wasn't a good game, or because it wasn't as complex? The other ones sound intriguing, but they also sound tremendously like the other NIS SRPGs with all sorts of complexity. While I know there are folks who would like that, I'm kind of jonesing for a more traditional JRPG at this point (not contrived FF type storylines from hell, nor the Excel-craving stat-balancing fare that NIS has given us so far).

How does Eternal Mana stack up against something like Suikoden or the older (16 bit) Final Fantasies? Does the alchemy stuff add a tinge of complexity without swamping you in killing 17 bazillion monsters for the 65 thousand subcombines to get the one sword of ultimate spiffiness your fighter needs now that he's transformed from a dark, forest barbarian to a muddy plains berserker?

Kitsune · 05-17-2005, 07:41 PM

Eh? It sounds like from your post that you think this is Nippon Ichi's game and an SRPG. It isn't anything like that. Gust is a very different type of developer. They focus more on the relationship-building aspect of RPGs. The Atelier did get rather complex, but its nothing compared to Nippon Ichi's game. Not the brain-hurting type that is. Its more like Advance Wars, in the elegant depth category. Simple to understand, takes a while to grasp all the nuances.

When I say less complex, I mean the whole idea of having a goal and then working toward that goal in the way you see fit, while dealing with what's going on around you in a nicely paced environment is gone and replaced with the normal RPG advancement. The game is really nice looking and has some incredible environments though, I'll give it that. The alchemy is pretty gutted though and just feels like an emphasized part of what other games already do in item-making these days. The Star Ocean games own Eternal Mana completely in this category.

Eternal Mana is a nice enough game, but the earlier Atelier play like Suikoden or Valkyrie Profile, they are charming sprite-based affairs with unique slants. Eternal Mana reminds me more of Legend of Mana or Golden Sun, its certainly not badly made, but its rather bland in its complacency and like Legend of Mana has lots of nice ideas, but only a few actually pan out to more than a sputter. It is quite fun interacting with the environment, but battles are kind of a bore. And the whole game is saturated in that overly enthusiastic cream of cuteness that can grate at times.

If you're looking for a lighter hearted, lighter RPG that's still really good, you should probably for Radiata Stories, that game is a blast. Or you could just hanker in for Dragon Quest VIII. There's no better RPGs to demonstrate the virtue of tradition and Dragon Quest VIII is probably the most charming game I've played on the PS2. Did you play Digital Devil Saga yet? I know it doesn't sound traditional, but it has the standard RPG progression and is quite a bit less intimidating than Nocturne. Its also got quite a good plot and characters.

If you can't wait, you could always check out Ys: Ark of Napishtm. It is very simple, but its also an excellently produced oldschool game.

-Kitsune

synic · 05-17-2005, 08:11 PM

Behold the evil thread-cromancer!

mouselock · 05-17-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synic

Behold the evil thread-cromancer!

Hey, it was on topic and everything!

Kitsune -

Atelier is NIS America affiliated.. I just assumed that stood for Nippon Ichi Soft. At any rate, it sounded like you were lamenting the lack of complexity that pushes games more toward the SRPG type of really complex systems. If I want something that complex, I'll just head all the way to a SRPG. Sounds like I should check out Atelier when it shows up.

As for Ys, I do plan on getting it (it's an action RPG though, yes?) but for my PSP.

Kevin Grey · 05-17-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouselock

As for Ys, I do plan on getting it (it's an action RPG though, yes?) but for my PSP.

I thought the PSP version was indefinitely delayed/cancelled? Is it still coming?

mouselock · 05-17-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Grey

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouselock

As for Ys, I do plan on getting it (it's an action RPG though, yes?) but for my PSP.

I thought the PSP version was indefinitely delayed/cancelled? Is it still coming?

According to Gamespot in winter sometime.

Kevin Grey · 05-17-2005, 08:52 PM

That would be great. Seems like a natural fit for the PSP.

09-09-2004, 03:43 AM	#1
Kitsune Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Иatural Planet Posts: 2,301	Our Man in Japan -- Mana in Japan Our Man in Japan -- Mana in Japan Consider this a public service announcement

09-09-2004, 05:10 AM	#2
Kalle New Romantic Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Gamertag: Kallews Posts: 8,260	Your columns are always a good read, even though I'll never play the games you tend to write about.

09-09-2004, 06:43 AM	#3
Idar Thorvaldsen Neo Acoustic Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tromsø, Norway Posts: 1,684	So basically we get the uninteresting one translated? Great. Are any of the other Atelier games for the PS2?

09-09-2004, 11:51 AM	#4
Kunikos How To Go Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sigil Posts: 11,555	Well-written, Kitsune! It keeps directly to the point and is the first of your columns that I have had no trouble reading all the way through and not getting lost. :shock: :lol: Good job.

09-09-2004, 12:37 PM	#5
TomChick Administrator World's End Supernova Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15,722	Yeah, I want to play that Atelier thing. It sounds like a really cool twist, in a Harvest Moon meets RPG way: instead of playing the adventurer, you play the NPC who runs the shop where the adventurers buy their stuff. -Tom

09-09-2004, 05:45 PM	#7
Doug Erickson Social Worker Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,415	I think Moon was pretty much the definitive send-up of Japanese console RPG cliches. That said, I want an RPG where I play the NPC that greets the heroic party as they come into town. "Welcome to Backwater!" I'll say, pressing the X button to add a passive-aggressive hint of danger to my voice, forewarning the hero to the Boss Monster lurking near the Church slash Save Point. Or maybe I'll press Triangle instead, to say "WELCOME to BACKWATER!" in a really fruity accent that sells the hero on the town's rustic charm, prompting him to buy additional Buster Swords or Slime Bangles. As time progresses, my character can have some sort of existential revelation, sinking into depression and ultimately dementia, as indicated by a cute little collection of colored progress bars on the main menu. The end game will be a series of conversations with a giant space monster made of skulls and PVC, which is inevitably revealed to be the jailkeeper in the hell created to contain my character and who only can be defeated through a sequence of limericks. Exciting, exciting stuff. Oh, and Torneko was a shopkeeper before these atelier chicks. And Kitsune, it's not "Viorate", it's "Violet". Just sayin'!

09-09-2004, 05:53 PM	#8
Dirt New Romantic Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,392	I'd rather play the BOSS character.

09-10-2004, 01:27 AM	#10
Chris Nahr How To Go Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Aurora Posts: 11,172	You might spend your time placing monsters in closets throughout the dungeon, though...

09-10-2004, 05:15 AM	#11
Warlord of Mars Spinning Toe Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Under the table Posts: 808	That sounds like Dungeon Keeper.

09-16-2004, 03:22 AM	#13
Warlord of Mars Spinning Toe Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Under the table Posts: 808	Godzi-err, nevermind...

05-17-2005, 07:05 PM	#14
mouselock New Romantic Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7,692	sigh So this is almost out it seems, and I come here to see if Kitsune has posted about it (because I believe he has) and find out that it's maybe not as good as I hoped. I can't tell, Kitsune, did you not like this installment because it wasn't a good game, or because it wasn't as complex? The other ones sound intriguing, but they also sound tremendously like the other NIS SRPGs with all sorts of complexity. While I know there are folks who would like that, I'm kind of jonesing for a more traditional JRPG at this point (not contrived FF type storylines from hell, nor the Excel-craving stat-balancing fare that NIS has given us so far). How does Eternal Mana stack up against something like Suikoden or the older (16 bit) Final Fantasies? Does the alchemy stuff add a tinge of complexity without swamping you in killing 17 bazillion monsters for the 65 thousand subcombines to get the one sword of ultimate spiffiness your fighter needs now that he's transformed from a dark, forest barbarian to a muddy plains berserker?

05-17-2005, 07:41 PM	#15
Kitsune Social Worker Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Иatural Planet Posts: 2,301	Eh? It sounds like from your post that you think this is Nippon Ichi's game and an SRPG. It isn't anything like that. Gust is a very different type of developer. They focus more on the relationship-building aspect of RPGs. The Atelier did get rather complex, but its nothing compared to Nippon Ichi's game. Not the brain-hurting type that is. Its more like Advance Wars, in the elegant depth category. Simple to understand, takes a while to grasp all the nuances. When I say less complex, I mean the whole idea of having a goal and then working toward that goal in the way you see fit, while dealing with what's going on around you in a nicely paced environment is gone and replaced with the normal RPG advancement. The game is really nice looking and has some incredible environments though, I'll give it that. The alchemy is pretty gutted though and just feels like an emphasized part of what other games already do in item-making these days. The Star Ocean games own Eternal Mana completely in this category. Eternal Mana is a nice enough game, but the earlier Atelier play like Suikoden or Valkyrie Profile, they are charming sprite-based affairs with unique slants. Eternal Mana reminds me more of Legend of Mana or Golden Sun, its certainly not badly made, but its rather bland in its complacency and like Legend of Mana has lots of nice ideas, but only a few actually pan out to more than a sputter. It is quite fun interacting with the environment, but battles are kind of a bore. And the whole game is saturated in that overly enthusiastic cream of cuteness that can grate at times. If you're looking for a lighter hearted, lighter RPG that's still really good, you should probably for Radiata Stories, that game is a blast. Or you could just hanker in for Dragon Quest VIII. There's no better RPGs to demonstrate the virtue of tradition and Dragon Quest VIII is probably the most charming game I've played on the PS2. Did you play Digital Devil Saga yet? I know it doesn't sound traditional, but it has the standard RPG progression and is quite a bit less intimidating than Nocturne. Its also got quite a good plot and characters. If you can't wait, you could always check out Ys: Ark of Napishtm. It is very simple, but its also an excellently produced oldschool game. -Kitsune

05-17-2005, 08:11 PM	#16
synic Spinning Toe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: jam between the toes of a starchild Posts: 657	Behold the evil thread-cromancer!

05-17-2005, 08:52 PM	#20
Kevin Grey New Romantic Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 6,034	That would be great. Seems like a natural fit for the PSP.

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Our Man in Japan -- Mana in Japan