Recommend me a video camera suitable for shooting babies!

[Calistas]

Not shooting babies like the Taliban did to the Lion of Peshwar (IIRC) but shooting as in filming.

Baby is due in Sept. and we'd like to film it because.. that's the sort of thing one does! And then you make people watch hours of your baby farting, pissing, crying, sleeping, etc.

We're looking to spend around $300us to maybe $600us. It would be ideal if it had good storage, was easy to integrate with my PC life (i don't know how to define that), shot well in low light conditions and was generally awesome. I'm looking for the iPhone of video cameras! Come on Apple! Get in to making some other appliances please!

But I digress. Video cameras. What would any of you recommend and why? I'm lost with the range of cameras out there...

[Ephraim]

From what I've read and heard, the "Apple iPod" of the video camera world is the Flip Mino series. Apparently they're not perfect, but easy to use, incredible portable, and they do a decent enough quality (even HD), perfect for baby video recording. The price is cheaper than your range, too.

If I were buying something simply to video record (I have a hard time using the word "shoot" in this context) babies, that's what I'd get.

[Calistas]

Thanks for the tip. We are probably looking for something with a few more features. Though I am not sure just what.

[datter]

If you're willing to push your price range up a bit look into the Sony SR11 HD cam. I picked one up awhile back and am very happy with it. The 1080i HD quality is superb, though it's important to have a decent enough computer to edit it with and I've found all it's other features worthwhile and well implemented. Yes, it shoots babies.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by Calistas

Thanks for the tip. We are probably looking for something with a few more features. Though I am not sure just what.

Features are overrated but the Mino probably doesn't have the quality you want. You will have your hands full with the kid, not fumbling with light exposure.

Honestly after 2 babies the videos aren't really all that exciting since babies really don't do much. "Looks he's smiling! ... oh, that's just gas"

I ended up taking many more pictures than videos (and used the camera itself to shoot video) and the video camera sat on the shelf.

The Mino is good because it's really tiny and you can slip it into your pocket. I do understand wanting one because I NEEDED a video camera for our first kid. It was a requirement, like a crib. I just really didn't end up using it all that much and frankly, 9 years later, we look at the pictures much more.

[peterb]

Disclaimer: I'm "long" Apple in many, many ways, so I will state up front that I have drunk the Kool-Aid by the gallon.

I have gone through several video cameras of varying sizes: a Canon Optura Pi mini-DV, the Kodak Zi6 (comparable to the Flip Mino), and I borrowed a Sony HD dvcam for about a month some time ago.

As of this month, most of the video I shoot, I'm shooting with the iPhone 3Gs. So I claim that the iPhone of video cameras is, in fact, the iPhone.

There are a lot of variables here. Let me mention a few of the most important ones.

(1) No one, including you, wants to watch an unedited video of your kid drooling. So you are going to need something to edit together clips easily. The gold standard for "movies of my kid" is a Mac and iMovie. There's nothing quite like it (and this isn't because of the "power" of it, but because it comes with a ton of super-reasonable presets that amount to "drag some clips and a song onto a timeline, and end up with something that will impress the grandparents"). The video editing software is the number 1 obstacle between "I shot some video" and actually showing what you shot to another living human being. Therefore, unless you have a frustrated desire to be a filmmaker and want to spend lots of time learning obscure software, easy is more important than powerful. There are probably Windows-side solutions that are good, but I don't know what they are - hopefully someone else can chime in about these.

(2) The big failure of every home video project is not video quality, but audio quality. The human eye is really, really good at compensating for lousy video. But bad audio can make something unwatchable. The "real" solution to this is to mic your subject, or use an MP3 recorder like a Roland R-09 (I have one) but that's a pain in the ass, especially when dealing with a baby (also, see point 5 below). I suggest using the "Fake" solution: every movie you make has a soundtrack. People watching the movie hear the music. If your kid says something cute, you can duck the music enough so the watcher can hear it. Problem solved.

(3) Everything people say about light and video quality is true, but see point #5.

(4) Whatever you do, I hope you have a lot of disk space.

(5) This is the most important point. Your video camera is useless if you don't have it with you. So, yes, your video quality will look better if you're using a $10,000 panasonic 3CCD HD dvcam. If you shoot it. But really, you didn't take the dvcam to the amusement park because you were already carrying a diaper bag and a picnic basket and you had a lot of other things on your mind and oops you let the battery run dead.

This is where the iPhone kicks everything else's ass: you always have it with you. It's always charged, because you're motivated to keep your phone charged. You always have it with you. The video quality is nowhere near HD, but is good enough. You always have it with you. The sound quality is not awesome - if you're far from your subject, you'll mostly just hear yourself. You always have it with you.

So being pessimistic, shooting video is basically a question of missing a shot because you didn't want to bring the camera with you and then when you don't shoot the video it sits on your camera because you don't want to edit it because you don't have the time. The iPhone completely eliminates the problem in the first half of that sentence. And I'll take somewhat low-quality video that I actually shot over high-quality video that I didn't shoot because I left the camera at home any day.

Also, consider how you will be distributing the movies. I submit that if you are basically putting movies online for the grandparents to look at, HD is probably overkill. Also, going to an HD workflow slows everything down - you need more diskspace, importing video, editing it, and exporting finished movies all take longer. If you're really committed, that's not a big deal. But if you just want to throw something together so relatives and friends can see some cute baby movies, it's another roadblock that you can eliminate by just accepting a more modest video quality.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Calistas, I sent you some pointers to video samples by PM.

[Tracy Baker]

As others have mentioned, the best video camera is the one you actually use, and that's the one that happens to be in your pocket when you see something worth shooting. Whatever your budget, subtract out the price of a Flip Mino HD, iPhone 3Gs, or something similar because a pocket videocam is essential equipment when you have kids.

I have a Flip Mino HD and it has some serious caveats. You have to be WAY back from your subject to fit them in the frame vertically because the field-of-view sucks. You have to hold pretty much perfectly still or camera shake will make the video unwatchable. It isn't good at all in low light, and the 720p video looks crappy on an HDTV. On the other hand, it holds a charge well, plugs directly into a USB port for painless transfers, looks good on YouTube and Vimeo and the other services you'll actually use to share the video, and most importantly (as PeterB said) YOU ALWAYS HAVE IT WITH YOU. As with cameras, binoculars, etc. this last factor trumps everything.

[peterb]

Originally Posted by Tracy Baker

... and most importantly (as PeterB said) YOU ALWAYS HAVE IT WITH YOU. As with cameras, binoculars, etc. this last factor trumps everything.

I agree, but just want to note: even though I have a flip-like camera, I don't always carry it with me. Hence my phone comment. This is probably a personal issue - I'm one of those people who basically always forgets to carry anything that isn't on the "absolutely, positively must have this with me or the world ends" list (which amounts to me ritually mumbling "wallet, keys, glasses, phone" when I leave the house)[footnote 1]. Other people are more comfortable carrying additional devices as long as they are small. So whether the flip works for you or not depends on you. It's definitely "small enough" to carry always if you're the sort of person that carries things.

-peterb

Footnote 1: It occurs to me that if you are the sort of person who carries a purse or frontpack or something, the Flip is surely a good choice. I don't carry anything like that, which is probably why it doesn't work for me.

[Tracy Baker]

Originally Posted by peterb

Footnote 1: It occurs to me that if you are the sort of person who carries a purse or frontpack or something, the Flip is surely a good choice. I don't carry anything like that, which is probably why it doesn't work for me.

If you have a baby you're always carrying a diaper bag (and you always know where the diaper bag is), so keep the camera in there and you're golden.

[Calistas]

Thanks for the tips all. The vids will pretty much be for all the relatives overseas. I'm sure we'll get over the excitement of burps, farts and crying =)

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree completely with the point about the iPhone 3Gs, not sure the wife will!

Anyway, google image search for "shoot babies".. and look what an awesome contraption you can find to shoot babies EVERYWHERE!

[MatthewF]

Awesome thread title.

[Matthew Gallant]

[Calistas]

^ Holy shit. I don't know what that's about but it's awesome.

Request an army of baby shooting machines like my picture, advancing while firing!

[KurtHustle]

I have a Canon Vixia HF10 that shoots in HD I like quite a bit.

I bought mine primarily for making videos at work and eventually (when I get off my lazy ass) to put my film degree to work making some shorts until I can afford a Red One or something better.

Pros: Great image quality. It's probably at the tip of your budget but they have other models that are a bit cheaper. Pretty easy to use. Light and small. Shoots in low light pretty well. No tape, it all records to an internal HD and has a memory card expansion slot. Also with no tape, you reduce machine noise on your audio track. The built in mic isn't bad. Colors are good.

Cons: The AVCHD codec kinda stinks if you don't have the right software to work with it. It doesn't have a view-finder (only the flip out monitor on the side) which kind of bothered me at first but you can set it up with a HDTV to use as a monitor so not a huge deal.

[Griddle]

So, to whomover owns one of those HD Mino dealies I pose this question... The MP4 video it exports, can this be edited in iMovie? Or should I consider looking into Sony Vegas or what have you. Just preparing myself, I don't have the Mino yet.

[rei]

I bought a Samsung SC-MX20 for $250 CAD to tape candids for a wedding: http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/07...ory-camcorder/

[SleepFighter]

I've been looking at the Kodak Zi8. Kinda like the HD Flip, but with Image Stabiliaztion that seems like it would be useful.

[DennyA]

I gotta second the Vixia HF10 recommendation. It's true that you don't need the HD quality and extra features when you're shooting to put the vids on YouTube or DVD, but when the kid's only going to be a baby/toddler/little kid once, and you'll be happy you have some high-quality footage of those moments when the kid becomes an angry, distant teen.

The trick is to have the good video camera for planned events (trips, birthday parties, etc.) and something smaller for those moments you didn't plan to capture. For the latter, you can use an iPhone, a Flip, etc. I chose to go with one of the newer Canon Elphs that has HD video capture. The quality is excellent, it takes great stills, and the video looks far better than the Flip HD.

[Aszurom]

I got a Canon FS20 for like $325 at Best Buy a month back. No complaints.

[Dunc]

Originally Posted by Griddle

So, to whomover owns one of those HD Mino dealies I pose this question... The MP4 video it exports, can this be edited in iMovie? Or should I consider looking into Sony Vegas or what have you. Just preparing myself, I don't have the Mino yet.

Yep, the Mino MP4's can be opened and edited in iMovie...My parents bought us one for shooting babies - our first was born two weeks ago - and it's been pretty great (though I didn't compare it to anything else.)

I can PM you a link to the (non-graphic) movie my Dad edited together of the birth, if you want to see how it looks.

For anyone using Windows, I found I had to use a utility called MP4Cam2AVI (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4cam2avi/) to bring the movies into Windows Movie Maker.

Dunc

[Calistas]

Saw the Flip Mini HD can be bought in NZ from some importer website. It looks cool but the Misses would prefer an optical zoom "for school plays and whatnot". Can't help but agree.

We've decided HD isn't so important - we're not going to be producing 3 hour kids sleeping epics to mail to all the family - more like stuff for the web.

Perhaps a cheaper Sony hanycam would work, hmm.

[Tracy Baker]

Originally Posted by Calistas

Saw the Flip Mini HD can be bought in NZ from some importer website. It looks cool but the Misses would prefer an optical zoom "for school plays and whatnot". Can't help but agree.

We've decided HD isn't so important - we're not going to be producing 3 hour kids sleeping epics to mail to all the family - more like stuff for the web.

Perhaps a cheaper Sony hanycam would work, hmm.

In something as small and light as the Flip an optical zoom would be a detriment. It's hard enough to hold the thing steady as it is, and zooming literally magnifies the problem. You won't be filming any school plays with it, either, as low-light performance in any mini camcorder with an aperture that small is terrible.

HD is nice because it gives you options. You can always take an HD video and convert it for Web playback, but you'll be frustrated at some point by the inability to do the same thing in the other direction. Eventually you'll get some footage you really, really like and kick yourself for shooting it in muddy SD.

[Jojo]

Originally Posted by Calistas

Saw the Flip Mini HD can be bought in NZ from some importer website. It looks cool but the Misses would prefer an optical zoom "for school plays and whatnot". Can't help but agree.

In all likelihood, by the time your baby is old enough to be in school plays and the like, you'll be ready to trade in your video camera for a new one.

I totally 100% agree with the convenient, tiny camera you will use, over the full-featured camera you never will. We've shot more kid videos in the 2 months since my SO got his iphone 3GS, than we did in the previous two years. Its left me really wanting a 3GS.

[Calistas]

Ok, the wife thinks HD is a better idea now :)

[Jag]

This was shot by a Mino HD at my son's baseball game. It was only a test upload/video to see how it looks on Youtube and before I got the hang of using the dang thing. Considering the distance and shakiness, it's not that bad for a pocket sized recorder.

[Tracy Baker]

That video isn't at all representative of the quality of the raw footage you get out of the camera. Go to www.vimeo.com, do a search for Flip Mino HD, and organize the search results so the newest are listed first (Vimeo re-encodes full quality videos to lower quality after a month or so if you don't have a premium account). Those videos are much more indicative of the type of performance you can expect from it.

EDIT: Make sure whatever you're watching says HD Is On or it wasn't uploaded in 720p

[Calistas]

Yeah... I would like a small one too.. but the wife is convinced we need a Sony or similar.

[Tracy Baker]

Amazon has the Creative Vado for $99.99 today as its Gold Box special.

I have a Canon SD780IS coming tomorrow that shoots HD video, and if the quality is comparable to the Flip HD I'll be looking to unload mine at a very friendly price.

[prolix]

You may want to take a look at the Sanyo Xactis.

[Post-It]

I have to second peterb long post above. iPhone. It's always with you, and while not as high of a resolution as the Flip MinoHD, it's generally considered to be equal to, if not better, in the capture of fluidity of motion. Pretty important for kids.

Plus everything peterb said. In today's world, for me personally, any video I take of my son (a week old yesterday) is going to only be seen through some sort of social media site (Youtube/Facebook) more than likely. I don't anything fancy, just something that shoots pretty good video and it's not a hassle to carry around. iPhone does that.