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Thread: Malaysia Airline MH730 enroute to Beijing DISAPPEARED..

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharaleo View Post
    You mean a ~$700,000 per annum subscription service, plus $500,000 install cost, would have provided more info.

    MAS have 100 aircraft, probably run ~100 flights per day (only planes in the air make money and most of their legs are not that long). It's not the kind of thing you deploy on a single craft, more likely your entire fleet or nothing (unless mandated in a particular region). That wholesale cost is probably doubled to the actual carrier and is per plane per flight. $20 x 100 flights per day x 365 days a year. Add in the cost to install the upgrade, say $5,000 a bird, because shit don't get done for free and vendor flight/maintenance engineers are expensive.

    Now your looking at a significant up front investment and operational cost to the business and you need to make a decision based on cost, value, risk and profitability. And you're an airline that has had three periods of unprofitability since circa 1995. I would not say MAS made the wrong choice in not subscribing to this additional service, it certainly may have helped, but they understand their business better than you and I. An article that is suggesting $10 worth of software could have solved this mystery this is not all helpful.
    While there's a point to be made, when flying at least 50 people per flight, increasing the ticket cost (the cheapest I can find from Kuala Lumpur to Guangzhou is a little over $100) by 20 cents isn't that absurd. Sure, you're working in a competitive market, but that's not exactly an anchor around the neck of the airline.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott123 View Post
    After this, do all flights now need 3 pilots? So that if one goes to the bathroom there are still two, not leaving one in total control? O
    You're assuming two things:

    1) This was done while one of the 2 pilots was "away"
    2) The "away" pilot never noticed the change - which is highly unlikely

    In the end, you have to trust your pilots, even if there is the very rare instance of them doing something wrong. You just can't take the human factor out of everything.

  3. #483
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    What this does show is that you need an international agency in charge of flight accident investigations, with authority and access to all necessary information from all countries. Of course that will never happen due to sovereignty issues.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grifman View Post
    What this does show is that you need an international agency in charge of flight accident investigations, with authority and access to all necessary information from all countries. Of course that will never happen due to sovereignty issues.
    I would totally support International Rescue if they get to build bitchin' vehicles.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grifman View Post
    What this does show is that you need an international agency in charge of flight accident investigations, with authority and access to all necessary information from all countries. Of course that will never happen due to sovereignty issues.
    Sovereignty aside, it sounds silly for a lot of reasons. There's issues of funding, oversight, and frankly I question the need for such an organization at all. Exceptional things happen, either by accident or the malicious purpose of some loon. It doesn't mean they will become a frequent thing or we need to dedicate a lot of resources to preventing the next highly unlikely occurrence of the same set of weird circumstances.

  6. #486
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    If this was any number of television shows we would be able to go ENHANCE(!) and read the serial numbers off the (proposed) wreckage.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortilla View Post
    Sovereignty aside, it sounds silly for a lot of reasons. There's issues of funding, oversight, and frankly I question the need for such an organization at all.
    Your response is silly. Issues of funding and oversight can be addressed. There all sorts of international organizations that have funding and oversight. Funding could come through a fee on airline tickets. Oversight could come through an internationally organized and appointed board. You would just need to set up the structure.

    I understand that you may disagree with my proposal and that's all well and good, but to call it silly, is, well, silly.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grifman View Post
    Your response is silly. Issues of funding and oversight can be addressed. There all sorts of international organizations that have funding and oversight. Funding could come through a fee on airline tickets. Oversight could come through an internationally organized and appointed board. You would just need to set up the structure.

    I understand that you may disagree with my proposal and that's all well and good, but to call it silly, is, well, silly.
    I apologize if that came off as dismissive. I do disagree with the need or wisdom of any sort of international regulatory agency, even for something as narrowly focused as airline safety, but that was no reason for me to be rude.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrax View Post
    If this was any number of television shows we would be able to go ENHANCE(!) and read the serial numbers off the (proposed) wreckage.
    Or the note in the pilot's pocket.

  10. #490
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    CNN guy brought up a point. The imagery comes from Digital Globe, and they're prohibited by US law. They can't release their highest-res imagery to the public, which is believed to be a meter resolution. Which is probably why the Aussies are treating this so seriously.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortilla View Post
    I apologize if that came off as dismissive. I do disagree with the need or wisdom of any sort of international regulatory agency, even for something as narrowly focused as airline safety, but that was no reason for me to be rude.
    Thank you, apology more than accepted!

  12. #492
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    I have had CNN on in the background while working today. Their current favorite theory is the "zombie plane," and they use the phrase constantly. It's like their marketing department told them zombies are hot right now, everyone likes zombie shows.

  13. #493
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    Wait, so CNN's giving up on the black hole theory?

  14. #494
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    You know what sucks? That The Newsroom is ending this season, because I'd have paid good money to see how Sorkin would have done with this.

  15. #495
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    Woman went to Mecca for yearly communion with God. Came back with superman-like eyes and claimed she saw the plane in Andaman Sea. This wouldn't be so funny except it is being published in Malaysia's premier newspaper! Why do we EVEN entertain such stories and made it headline. Aren't the family distraught enough? I mean, if this is a tabloid, sure I understand, but not a mainstream newspaper!

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by habibi View Post
    I mean, if this is a tabloid, sure I understand, but not a mainstream newspaper!
    Does Malaysia have that distinction? Because you'd think Britain would, but it doesn't.

  17. #497
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    We have a couple of newspaper on sale on the new stand that are generally regarded as tabloid and they love sensational news. The Star is NOT one of them.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by habibi View Post
    Why do we EVEN entertain such stories and made it headline. Aren't the family distraught enough? I mean, if this is a tabloid, sure I understand, but not a mainstream newspaper!
    Don't feel too bad. We've been treated to CNN speculating as to whether it could be a black hole or some 'supernatural' cause.

  19. #499
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    You know, things have been quiet in this thread. It's kinda quiet around here in Malaysia too. What's happening? And it looks like the hoo-haa over the 'debris' in Australia waters went cold. What is happening?

    Edit: they are still searching for the debris..
    Last edited by habibi; 03-22-2014 at 02:20 AM. Reason: Still searching

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by habibi View Post
    You know, things have been quiet in this thread. It's kinda quiet around here in Malaysia too. What's happening? And it looks like the hoo-haa over the 'debris' in Australia waters went cold. What is happening?

    Edit: they are still searching for the debris..
    The satellite image that cause the excitement a few days ago was in an area of the ocean with fairly active currents, and was 3 days old before it was acted on. That's a lot of searching in very deep waters. Going to be slow, and they may find nothing.

  21. #501
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    Now China came up with an image not very far away from the original spot off Australia. Seems more and more likely that there's something of significance out there - it measures in at around 74'x43' and they've now sent a couple of their planes to join in the search.

  22. #502
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    I looked up 90 degrees east, 45 south; it is amazingly isolated. The nearest land is 1,500km away at Port-aux-Francais, which doesn't have a runway and has a population of 45. The nearest city, Perth, is 2,600km away, and Perth itself is incredibly isolated, with the nearest city to it another 2,100km away. The water depth is around 10,000 feet.

  23. #503
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    The New Republic says everything I've been saying since forever:

    The New York Times's Farhad Manjoo argues that the "terror" isn't only that we can't find the plane, but being off the grid itself, untethered to our friends and family. I disagree. Our "hyperconnectivity," as he calls it, is the very reason we need this mystery right now. In a moment dominated by the radical adoption of new technology, with reports of the NSA’s massive snooping, talk of Amazon drones making deliveries like toilet paper door to your doorstep, or checking the status of a flight through a pair of Google glasses, we need to feel that there is at least something out there that the grand orchestra of satellites and supercomputers can’t find or figure out.
    And Manjoo, being a techno-utopian idiot, really had it coming after he wrote:

    When something goes wrong, nowadays, one’s first instinct is to check in by text, on social networks, or through some other digital smoke flare. According to stories in the Chinese press, family members of the passengers of Flight 370 had they same instinct. They’ve been calling and messaging their loved ones’ phones throughout the week. When they call, they hear a ringing tone, giving many hope that passengers’ phones are still connected to the grid and consequently could be tracked by officials. (Experts say the ringing doesn’t mean the phones are still working.)

    If it sounds crazy that we keep using our smartphones and tablets despite all we now know about how vulnerable they make us to being monitored by the government and corporations, this is the explanation. At a most basic level, these devices keep us tethered to one another and we’re willing to make terrific trade-offs in privacy and sanity just to keep that connection. Because when the connection is lost, it’s terrifying.

  24. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetarnias View Post
    The New Republic says everything I've been saying since forever:
    They're almost as certifiably nuts as you are. They get paid for being that way. Not sure what you get out of it.

  25. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggercut View Post
    They're almost as certifiably nuts as you are. They get paid for being that way. Not sure what you get out of it.
    Not nearly as nuts as Slate (where Manjoo was right at home for five years), Salon or The Atlantic, or even the New York Times (Manjoo's new home, where he's replacing David Pogue, another techno-utopian idiot). I remember that TNR had a bad reputation during the early Bush years, but it seems to have abated now.

  26. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetarnias View Post
    Not nearly as nuts as Slate (where Manjoo was right at home for five years), Salon or The Atlantic, or even the New York Times (Manjoo's new home, where he's replacing David Pogue, another techno-utopian idiot). I remember that TNR had a bad reputation during the early Bush years, but it seems to have abated now.

  27. #507
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    We need to figure out what happened to the plane not because of "hyperconnectivity" or NSA snooping or whatever. It's because it would be cold comfort to the families of the next batch of victims if it turns out to be something wrong with the plane or airline's policies that could have been fixed if the investigators hadn't just shrugged and said "Eh, we were okay with it being a mystery." (And the subsequent tidal wave of negligence lawsuits, of course...)

  28. #508
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    The phones keep ringing because many of them had a last handshake with a cell phone tower in Malaysia. If you're calling from China, it's going through the international routing, and the ringing is most probably just the system trying to find the phone in a foreign country.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolen Horde View Post
    The phones keep ringing because many of them had a last handshake with a cell phone tower in Malaysia. If you're calling from China, it's going through the international routing, and the ringing is most probably just the system trying to find the phone in a foreign country.
    This. As we entered the digital age, and particularly that of IP telephony, call control systems began to have things like dial tone and ringing tone purposely injected into the connection sequence because users were uncomfortable with the otherwise silent line.

  30. #510
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    True, it could well be that the system isn't especially well configured and played the wrong tone. That's happened to me numerous times. (Some systems can't handle incoming VoIP calls properly ><)

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