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Thread: Goodbye Tolkien, hello Tales of Maj’Eyal (ToME)

  1. #61
    Total badass of Dredmore Neo Acoustic
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    I liked the bit I played of this and have been looking forward to getting back to it with the Steam version as a catalyst. Now I'm just waiting for Indie Royale to post the keys (they say they will as soon as they have them).

  2. #62
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    Excellent tips. I have seen a few dungeons report "you sense you will get killed if you stay here" or something to that effect upon entering. Seems it's always good advice to listen to those warnings. Proceeding and then getting one-shotted into perma-death by a hidden enemy was instructive.

    Overall I'm learning to be much more prepared to sneak, snipe, kite, or just generally run away, even when using a warrior class. The teleport rune is a good one.

  3. #63
    World's End Supernova Telefrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacedog View Post
    If you donate and login, the game unlocks a couple of things (not classes or races or anything like that); you must be logged in to access them. Also, there's a global chat server, so if you are logged in you can chat with other folks playing the game. Across the ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
    From my reading, it seems it does unlock a class. The Stone Warden can only be used if you donate, or presumably buy the Steam version.

    What I'm not clear about is whether or not the Steam version needs to login to get the goodies. Do you have to remain logged in to maintain the extras?

    Also, what about the Items vault?

    For each 2€ of donations you gain one slot in the online Items Vault. This allows a character to send items to the vault and an other one to grab it from there. This feature can be accessed through the Fortress ingame.
    Do Steam versions get a slot? Or more? If you're offline, can you use the vault?

    I feel like the dev needs to explain this stuff a little better.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefrog View Post
    From my reading, it seems it does unlock a class. The Stone Warden can only be used if you donate, or presumably buy the Steam version.

    What I'm not clear about is whether or not the Steam version needs to login to get the goodies. Do you have to remain logged in to maintain the extras?
    I only know how it worked pre-steam, which was that if you weren't logged in you couldn't access the donation features.

    That probably includes the Item Vault, which I always forget about. Purists probably want to avoid it (since it allows twinking). It was buggy way back in 1.0, but it's possible patches have fixed it.

  5. #65
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    I'm assuming one of the reasons to log in is that you get an online profile to facilitate shaming or bragging rights. That's public, right? Can you guys see all my characters, my achievements, and so forth?

    Actually, it looks like the achievements, which are broken on Steam, are broken on the official profiles as well. I've definitely earned more than just the arena achievement. You'd think if one of your selling points was 1225 achievements, you'd get them to work right.

    -Tom

  6. #66
    World's End Supernova Telefrog's Avatar
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    Har har. I played a couple of hours last night and my profile barely shows up. I read that the dev is having some issues with server load since the Steam version went live.

    http://te4.org/users/telefrog

    Jesus, Tom! 17 hours already!?

  7. #67
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    Well, that just means it's been running for 17 hours. Many of those hours were probably spent with the game idling while I did something else. A better measure of my time spent is that awesome roster of characters, some of whom attained dizzying heights of power as grand as level eight. Behold my greatest accomplishment in all the Tales of May'Eyal, Rustle Crow the Dwarf Berserker, who made it to the 10th wave in the arena.

    -Tom

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacedog View Post
    Credit the middle earth game where it's due. It more or less modeled the entirety of middle earth (but randomized, if that makes sense). It was a lot of dungeons. And a lot of dungeon levels. Whoo boy. That game was exhausting.
    So any actual losses between this and the old version? I thought the content was merely converted, not removed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefrog View Post
    What is the login in-game about? Do I need to do that?
    The biggest reason to login is to persist your unlocks. So if you play on a different machine or uninstall and come back to it some day, you still have all those races and classes unlocked.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRose View Post
    So any actual losses between this and the old version? I thought the content was merely converted, not removed.
    You mean, besides all of the Tolkien stuff, and the old character building mechanics?

  11. #71
    World's End Supernova Telefrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrycoder View Post
    The biggest reason to login is to persist your unlocks. So if you play on a different machine or uninstall and come back to it some day, you still have all those races and classes unlocked.
    Isn't that what Steam should be for?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefrog View Post
    Isn't that what Steam should be for?
    The game had this mechanic years before it was on Steam.

    So the graphics have gotten some touch ups here and there since 1.0. Spell effects and such. Also, I'm reading that various "story dungeons" can get "alternate layouts", which in this case means "an entirely different theme" (e.g. Daikara is "cold" themed. But it can now apparently be "hot" themed).

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacedog View Post
    You mean, besides all of the Tolkien stuff, and the old character building mechanics?
    Yeah, I'm asking if beside the "flavor" there was more content or much different gameplay. I've read that the new TOME is usually something between 15-20 hours for a complete playthrough?

    I've run 2.3.5 and it has that nice Angband look and style where you can set up and configure multiple windows, and I like so much better classic ASCII in these games.

    Running with modern tiles diminishes a lot of the fun for me.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRose View Post
    Yeah, I'm asking if beside the "flavor" there was more content or much different gameplay. I've read that the new TOME is usually something between 15-20 hours for a complete playthrough?
    I would have expected that all the talk in this thread about the radically different character building mechanics - which are a first for the genre - largely answered that point. There are other differences, significant differences though none as big as that thing, which is gigantic and impacts every level of gameplay. The games have the following in common: Dwarves, Dragons, Trolls, Orcs, Giants. Tome "hobbitses" and "elves" by other names.

    There is nothing else about them that is remotely the same, assuming we're not talking about hopelessly broad things like "they have unique monsters" or "there are classes that use magic".

  15. #75
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    No, I'm asking about everything else. I'm not asking about mechanics, but about content.

    Is the size of wilderness or number of different dungeons and floors more or less on the same scale or it's a smaller scenario overall?

  16. #76
    Neo Acoustic Oghier's Avatar
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    You can turn the tilesets off, if staring at letters and symbols somehow adds to the experience for you.

    At least, there's an option to do that. I have not tested it.

  17. #77
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    HRose, there's an absurd amount of content here and it's predicated on two things: randomized maps and the distinctness of the race/class combos. Your online profile has a grid for characters who have beat the campaign. There are 10 races and 27 classes. There are separate grids for all four difficulty levels. So if it takes 15-20 hours for a complete playthrough, multiply that by four grids with 270 possible character combos*. There is also an arena mode for fast character advancement on a separate leaderboard and a third option I haven't unlocked yet. This game is nothing if not vast, generous, and varied.

    -Tom

    * I'm not sure if every race can be every class, so the grid might not be entirely wide open.

  18. #78
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    Also there are user mods.

    For a free game you get a lot of stuff. Paying a little cash you get a little more and the satisfaction of helping the developer. Judging the game as it is he deserves a bit of cash.

  19. #79
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    I'm not saying the game is small. I'm just curious about the specific aspect of world-size compared to the old Middle-Earth version. It's just a personal curiosity.

  20. #80
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    I'm kind of interested just because of the achievements. I was surprised how fast the hours melted away playing DoomRL, trying to complete challenges and boost my meta-stats. But that was a coffeebreak game. Not sure I have hundreds of hours to sink into a roguelike right now...

  21. #81
    New Romantic BleedTheFreak's Avatar
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    Purchased! Can't wait to get into it!

  22. #82
    New Romantic charmtrap's Avatar
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    Damn you QT3. Another game for me not to have to time to really explore.

    Having fun so far, though. Just logged my first perma-death! So proud!

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRose View Post
    No, I'm asking about everything else. I'm not asking about mechanics, but about content.

    Is the size of wilderness or number of different dungeons and floors more or less on the same scale or it's a smaller scenario overall?
    There are, blessedly, far fewer dungeon levels than whichever version of Tome, Tome that Came Before The Tome That Would Be, had like dozens of dungeons ranging in depth from 40-100 floors. I don't recall which numeric version of Tome that was, unfortunately. I don't know how many dungeon levels Tome - The Tome That Was The Tome That Was Foretold, until it became The Tome That Was Foretold And Then Showed Up - has and I don't care. I don't measure content like that, and nobody else really does because it's not meaningful in isolation. Infinite Dungeon excepted for reasons having to do with physics, that version of Tome Before had way more dungeon levels than Adom. It did not have more content by any reasonable definition of the word "content". It had 10000 largely similar dungeon levels occasionally punctuated by the chance to kill something from the Tolkienverse that had a fancy name and possibly a song written about it some time in the early part of the 20th century. That sort of thing has a certain appeal, of course. Tome Before was aiming for certain sorts of things and largely hit them. Maybe not so much with Ungoliant's lair, though. What a fucking slog.

    It has less content than Adom, though it's probably closer to Adom than DCSS. It has way more than Doom RL. Of course, each of these 4 games is aiming for something in terms of depth/breadth and "time to play", and each hits it's target pretty solidly. It has a wilderness area that's sizeable, both fixed and random locations (depending on the thing in question). It has quests, and towns with people in them, and many dungeons, and you can't see it all in one playthrough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chick
    There are separate grids for all four difficulty levels. So if it takes 15-20 hours for a complete playthrough, multiply that by four grids with 270 possible character combos*. There is also an arena mode for fast character advancement on a separate leaderboard and a third option I haven't unlocked yet.
    That's assuming you win each playthrough (the royal You, the editorial You).

    You won't.

    I don't offer that up as a measure of content either, of course. Rogue-likes are what they are. To some, that repetition is a turn off, and to others it's juicy wonderbits. Individuals are capable of judging that sort of thing based on their own wants/needs/preferences.

    Every race can be every class IIRC.

  24. #84
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacedog View Post
    That's assuming you win each playthrough (the royal You, the editorial You).
    Well, as you can tell from my player profile linked above where you'll see I have characters as high as level eight, I'm Really Good at this game. But, yeah, other people might have other results because they're not as Good as I am at Tales of Maj'Eyal. If anyone wants to sponsor me in official competitions, drop me an email and I'll entertain your offer.

    The reason I wondered if every race can be every class is because at my current state of unlocks, only dwarves can be Stone Wardens. I actually know very little about how this game falls together in the long run, and that's fine by me. I'm happy to see it unfold at its own pace.

    -Tom

  25. #85
    Neo Acoustic Mark L's Avatar
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    Some things that come to mind:

    1) The "z" key is pretty great.

    2) Do not open vaults in Dreadfell.

    3) Category points can be used to buff skill trees, buy an extra space for a rune/infusion, or (of course) unlock a new skill tree.

    4) Always have some kind of escape mechanism. Preferably two.

    5) Stuns are going to be what kills you.

    6) I was super serious about Dreadfell above.

  26. #86
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    That ice dragon in Daikara is a rat bastard I tell you what. I actually completed the entire dungeon EXCEPT for him, left, did another dungeon entirely and leveled up once or twice, then came back and had an absolute bear of a time before I finally killed him. http://te4.org/characters/83112/tome...d-cf8e8dbb6267 My character thus far.

    After playing it a while my gut feeling is it's worse than other "For reals" roguelikes such as DCSS, DoomRL, Cata, etc, but better than the other for-money roguelikes such as Dredmor and the Pit. Although I also just picked up the "Gold edition" DLC for the Pit, and the new "Fast mode" seems really beneficial. One of my biggest complaints about the Pit was how goddamn drag-assy and grindy it got. Similar complaint for Dredmor even with the fast mode they added on that. Still, ToME's probably the most laid-back of all of them. Playing a for reals roguelike generally isn't very relaxing and requires a hell of a lot more focus, in ToME I can mostly let my eyes glaze over and pick up lots of nice treasure. One of my two deaths was because I walked into poison water without realizing it was poison water, simply because everything else up to that point had been so easy going I didn't realize what was going on until I died.

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boojum View Post
    I liked the bit I played of this and have been looking forward to getting back to it with the Steam version as a catalyst. Now I'm just waiting for Indie Royale to post the keys (they say they will as soon as they have them).
    Take the unlock key on IndieRoyale, go to te4.org and redeem it on your profile. Connect Steam to your TE4 account. Voila.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squee View Post
    That ice dragon in Daikara is a rat bastard I tell you what. I actually completed the entire dungeon EXCEPT for him, left, did another dungeon entirely and leveled up once or twice, then came back and had an absolute bear of a time before I finally killed him. http://te4.org/characters/83112/tome...d-cf8e8dbb6267 My character thus far.

    After playing it a while my gut feeling is it's worse than other "For reals" roguelikes such as DCSS, DoomRL, Cata, etc, but better than the other for-money roguelikes such as Dredmor and the Pit. Although I also just picked up the "Gold edition" DLC for the Pit, and the new "Fast mode" seems really beneficial. One of my biggest complaints about the Pit was how goddamn drag-assy and grindy it got. Similar complaint for Dredmor even with the fast mode they added on that. Still, ToME's probably the most laid-back of all of them. Playing a for reals roguelike generally isn't very relaxing and requires a hell of a lot more focus, in ToME I can mostly let my eyes glaze over and pick up lots of nice treasure. One of my two deaths was because I walked into poison water without realizing it was poison water, simply because everything else up to that point had been so easy going I didn't realize what was going on until I died.
    You are doing well... on normal ;)

  29. #89
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    I'm intrigued by what I'm reading here, and very tempted to try it, but I'm somewhat reluctant because of the trailer that's in in the first post of the thread. Is that really the speed in which this game is played, or is that a fast forward? Because in the first case, I don't think I will be able to keep up...?

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjgreeny75 View Post
    I'm intrigued by what I'm reading here, and very tempted to try it, but I'm somewhat reluctant because of the trailer that's in in the first post of the thread. Is that really the speed in which this game is played, or is that a fast forward? Because in the first case, I don't think I will be able to keep up...?
    If you're talking about the beginning of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ajF8...ature=youtu.be that video, that's just the background of the main menu. The game playing itself (At ungodly computer speed) in the background. The actual game is turn-based and moves at whatever pace you play it at.

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