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Thread: Banished (survival city building)

  1. #151
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    So it turns out you can't mine iron without a tool at any sort of meaningful rate. I seem to have hit a deadend where you need tools to mine iron, and you need iron to make tools, so everyone ends up running around empty handed. Productivity nosedives.

    -Tom

  2. #152
    Administrator World's End Supernova Tom Chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrandt View Post
    1) Are there any options similar to Paradox games to let certain events either slow down the game or notify in a more visible way than those icons? I kept missing the traders and would only notice later in the event log that they had visited.
    2) Does the hospital have any purpose outside of an epidemic?
    3) What advantages does a market have over well placed stockpiles/barns? The description made it sound like it served a similar function, but could hold every type of good for citizens to pick up. Problem being, the market has an enormous footprint and the other buildings do not. Is there really an advantage?
    4) Is there any way to find out why a person is unhappy or unhealthy? You can see what their happiness/health values are but it doesn't look like there are any hints as to what is wrong?
    I'm guessing you won't like the answers to these questions. There's a lot to like in Banished, but it's also got many of the hallmarks of an amateur designer making a game for himself rather than for people who've played other city builders. I'm guessing the appeal of this game is going to be pretty short-lived, at least for me.

    -Tom

  3. #153
    How To Go triggercut's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's emerging as a problem. I kind of explained the oddness I saw playing the challenge mapseed in the other thread. If this is something working as intended, excellent. Tell me what I've done or what's causing hyperconsumption by my villagers. The problem is a lack of consistent information to tell me what's going on, and whether I'm seeing a bug or a process working as intended.

  4. #154
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    Is there any benefit to assigning more workers to a job then required, or is it just a waste of personnel?

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrandt View Post
    1) Are there any options similar to Paradox games to let certain events either slow down the game or notify in a more visible way than those icons? I kept missing the traders and would only notice later in the event log that they had visited.
    2) Does the hospital have any purpose outside of an epidemic?
    3) What advantages does a market have over well placed stockpiles/barns? The description made it sound like it served a similar function, but could hold every type of good for citizens to pick up. Problem being, the market has an enormous footprint and the other buildings do not. Is there really an advantage?
    4) Is there any way to find out why a person is unhappy or unhealthy? You can see what their happiness/health values are but it doesn't look like there are any hints as to what is wrong?
    1) There's an option to slow down the game automatically when a disaster hits (and I think it's on by default) but I don't remember off hand if you are able to configure anything else.
    2) Looking at my town hall's health graph, my average health got a very slight boost when I built a second hospital so I think it has some benefit outside epidemics but it's hard to quantify.
    3) Stockpiles and barns are used by local workers to drop off their products so it'll usually only contain the stuff that is produced near the barn/stockpile. A market on the other hand will gather resources all across the map and try to balance its inventory to contain a little bit of everything. This potentially reduces the trips that your villagers need to make to get essential stuff and it also ensures that each villagers will get to eat several different kinds of foods (which boosts health).
    4) Not that I know of, unfortunately.

  6. #156
    New Romantic
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    Sounds like patches are in order and the feedback from players to help the dev balance the game systems out better?

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak Gordon View Post
    Sounds like patches are in order and the feedback from players to help the dev balance the game systems out better?
    I agree, he could have almost released this as an early access to take the feedback to then make the changes needed. Still hopefully he will take it all on board and make changes or add stuff that is missing, but you compare this 1 man release to the travesty that was Sim City and its hard to believe just 1 person did it. Gotta take my hat off to him, amazing job

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chick View Post
    So it turns out you can't mine iron without a tool at any sort of meaningful rate. I seem to have hit a deadend where you need tools to mine iron, and you need iron to make tools, so everyone ends up running around empty handed. Productivity nosedives.

    -Tom
    I'm wondering whether this is where trade starts to come into play? I have a lot of leathers lying around...

  9. #159
    New Romantic DeepT's Avatar
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    I had watched several videos on this game and then I played it for a few hours. Other than some basic mistakes (in which I restarted my map), I have a thriving community. I do not see any real challenge here in the game so far. Just grow slowly and make sure you produce far more food than you need. As far as the "hard" options, the only challenge seems to be the "startup" problem. IE: once you do get housing / food / tools / etc... going the "hard" mode plays just like any other mode.

    My current city has about 45 adults. Ill keep pushing it up, but I do not expect it to become challenging at any point.

    One thing I would have liked to have in this game is the ability to build a complex trade empire. Lets say there could be 10 rare resources types such as marble, gold, clay, etc... And then each map might have between 1 and 3 of these. Then you could trade with other distant cities importing and exporting various goods. You could even make a manufacturing center such that you import raw resources you can't get locally and then sell the finished goods.

  10. #160
    Social Worker wisefool's Avatar
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    I wish I could reserve coal for forges instead of heating. Wear a sweater or something plebs!

    Trade seems obligatory at some point if only because mines will eventually tap out.

    Interface is not bad but needs a little bit. Maybe the addition of a skillbar like crawl or mobas have. I could then press a quick key to check paths, lay roads or destroy/gather.

    There is a good foundation here and it's solid. Once I'm done playing with it I suspect I'll look forward to a sequel/expansion.

  11. #161
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    I've built a pasture but no animals seem to populate it. The Help says something about a trade house to buy animals but not sure how it works, can someone enlighten me?

  12. #162
    How To Go triggercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarryman View Post
    I've built a pasture but no animals seem to populate it. The Help says something about a trade house to buy animals but not sure how it works, can someone enlighten me?
    If you don't have animals based on starting conditions, the only way to get them is to build a trading post of some sort or hope that nomads with animals to trade wander into your settlement.

  13. #163
    Neo Acoustic arrendek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggercut View Post
    If you don't have animals based on starting conditions, the only way to get them is to build a trading post of some sort or hope that nomads with animals to trade wander into your settlement.
    If you put a lot of stuff in your trading post it seems to help the merchants start arriving. Then you can "order" things from the merchant, which I guess makes them bring it next time?

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarryman View Post
    I've built a pasture but no animals seem to populate it. The Help says something about a trade house to buy animals but not sure how it works, can someone enlighten me?
    I had the same issue and had to consult the Banishedopedia. Unless you start with animals (which you don't on Medium and Hard - not sure about Easy), you have to trade for some first.

  15. #165
    New Romantic
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    Does the same thing apply with any kinds of seeds for pastures or farms? Do I need to build a trading post first to trade for them?

    How can I tell what seeds I have?

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinj View Post
    Does the same thing apply with any kinds of seeds for pastures or farms? Do I need to build a trading post first to trade for them?

    How can I tell what seeds I have?
    Yes, you need to trade for them if you don't have them at start. And they aren't cheap, nor do all traders accept all goods in trade. In the hard start you get no seeds at all to begin with, meaning you will have to rely on hunting, gathering, and fishing for food until you can build a trade post and acquire some seeds. On the lower start difficulties you get a random assortment of field and orchard seeds. So on my medium start game I got squash, peppers, and chestnut seeds.

    As for telling what you have, as far as I know you have to designate a field or orchard to see what options you have.

  17. #167
    Social Worker wisefool's Avatar
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    Yep, same thing applies for seeds.

    As far as I can tell, if you play on medium you start with enough seeds for 2 crops and 1 orchard. Orchards are permanent crops that take 2 years investment.

    I read someone claiming a forester chopped down his orchard trees because it was in radius. It's possible he misclicked the CUT DOWN button :p

    I haven't found a way other than making a farm and seeing what you need for it. Farms are instant-build thought if you don't have to cut down any trees in the target area.

    ==

    I built a physician's office but he never seems to have any patients. I also noticed the 211 medicinal herbs I harvested years ago were not being used up. This is around year 20. Maybe it was the well, because I have prevented people from drinking downstream from the toilet area? I dunno. Not sure well water counts as fresh, zombies and stuff fall in all the time.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkus View Post
    Yes, you need to trade for them if you don't have them at start. And they aren't cheap, nor do all traders accept all goods in trade. In the hard start you get no seeds at all to begin with, meaning you will have to rely on hunting, gathering, and fishing for food until you can build a trade post and acquire some seeds. On the lower start difficulties you get a random assortment of field and orchard seeds. So on my medium start game I got squash, peppers, and chestnut seeds.

    As for telling what you have, as far as I know you have to designate a field or orchard to see what options you have.
    Interesting... it says I can plant wheat or peppers. I set it to wheat, then assign 2 farmers to the field. The farmers never go to the field, they just wander around idling. Am I missing a step on how to get a farm running? All I did was lay down a field...

  19. #169
    Social Worker wisefool's Avatar
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    They plan in Spring (may differ for different crops?) and harvest in the Fall.

  20. #170
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    Yeah, they won't start working it if its the wrong time of year. Farmers default to laborer jobs "out of season," which is why I sometimes cue up building jobs in the winter when there tend to be excess laborers around to haul the material to the work sites.

    One thing I do think needs to be tweaked is the vast differenct in productivity between different types of jobs. I built a quarry and assigned two workers, who managed all of four stones in a season. That's incredibly tiny productivity compared to other jobs. I'm not saying quarry's should be super productive, but ten or twenty stones per worker per season seems more realistic given the pace at which you can go through stone. Especially in a game where a couple of foresters can suppy enough wood to keep a town of 20 or 30 people fully covered.

  21. #171
    New Romantic
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    How can you tell where to build quarries and mines?

  22. #172
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    I can't tell from what everyone is saying, if this is a great game or not - Can someone please tell me if its fun? I'm not really into mechanics of games, but more having fun and just doing things.

  23. #173
    New Romantic DeepT's Avatar
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    It is fun for a little while. I think the problem is longevity. Once you figure out how to make a sustained town, the challenge goes away. I am quite sure Ill be able to make a town of 600 people as long as I am careful with slow growth. I doubt Ill get much replayability out of this since new maps really do not provide new challenges.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinj View Post
    How can you tell where to build quarries and mines?
    Pretty much anwhere, within certain parameters - there is no special requirement, like being on the side of a hill or anything like that. Just choose the build option and see where it will let you place it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razgon View Post
    I can't tell from what everyone is saying, if this is a great game or not - Can someone please tell me if its fun? I'm not really into mechanics of games, but more having fun and just doing things.
    Well, this is a budget ($20) one person developed game so its not comparable to major city builders you might be thinking of. In that sense its more narrowly focused as just being about trying to get a viable community up and running. But within certain random parameters, two basic map types, and three start difficulty situations, its not got a huge amount of variety because outside of natural disasters, its just a about figuring out how to manage your population and growth best over time. So while you can fail spectacularly, once you've played the game a few times (and especially if you go to forums looking for hints), you will have figured out the basics needed to get a viable town up and running. Beyond that there isn't any bigger or later challenges - no monuments to build, no raiders to defend against, etc. Its just about getting the basics of food and shelter going and keeping it running.

    Like I said, its a budget game and if I get 20 or 30 hours out of it I'll be satisfied. We'll have to see where the dev goes with it from here since initial sales seem very good.

  25. #175
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    I'm anxious to see what the modders come up with.

  26. #176
    World's End Supernova Telefrog's Avatar
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    This is what I said in the seed game thread:

    I think the problem Tom ran into is the same one I did. Basically, the Chick Parabola for this game is really high, but short. Once you figure out the balancing act, there just isn't much to do. Build more houses? Why?

    There's nothing pushing me to do any better than keeping things running. There are Achievements which the developer says should be treated like simple goals, but they don't really motivate me.
    I guess it's good for what there is. I mean it's incredible that essentially one guy made this. The game is very pretty and the U/I looks good. (+1 for letting me drag and drop info windows around the display.) I sure hope he makes a lot of money from this and I'd be interested to see what he does next.

    Unfortunately, I can't really recommend this game as-is. Once you get past the initial uphill battle to get established, there just isn't much else to do.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepT View Post
    It is fun for a little while. I think the problem is longevity. Once you figure out how to make a sustained town, the challenge goes away. I am quite sure Ill be able to make a town of 600 people as long as I am careful with slow growth. I doubt Ill get much replayability out of this since new maps really do not provide new challenges.
    Hmm, first DLC: "Zombies and Orks"? OK, maybe "Barbarians" is more fitting... Anyway, haven't played it myself yet but this seems like a common thread (ie lack of replay-ability once you figure out the formula to survival). I've bought a copy despite my reservations if only to support this guy. Would love to see him expand on this...

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefrog View Post
    Unfortunately, I can't really recommend this game as-is. Once you get past the initial uphill battle to get established, there just isn't much else to do.
    That sucks. I thought this looked pretty exciting when it was announced but I had the same problem with the last SimCity I played (4?). Once I figured out the underlying system the game stopped being interesting. I'll wait and see if they do anything interesting with DLC.

  29. #179
    World's End Supernova Telefrog's Avatar
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    Well, to be fair, others have already gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. Shang has a great playthrough going on here that makes that initial challenge interesting to follow.

    I don't want to be too harsh on the game. What's there is good, and for the half-dozen hours I played it, I was interested. It's just that once I learned the build order, there wasn't much point in continuing.

  30. #180
    Spinning Toe JDSIDD's Avatar
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    That's fair. I actually think it looks like a lot of fun in the beginning but I remember how similar games ended for me. Somewhere down the road I'll end up playing this, just not now.

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