Windows 8

[mono]

New thread, now that we've got RTM...

I installed RTM via a Technet sub. On retail Win 8, if you have a dual display setup, hitting the Windows key pulls up Metro only on the secondary display. This mitigates the pain quite a bit.

EDIT: OK, not quite. I was still on first boot, and although I selected a monitor as my primary, apparently Metro* didn't wise up to this fact until the first reboot. So Metro does only appear on one screen, and it's the primary display. That blows. I could reverse displays so Metro would appear on the 'secondary' that I use for chat/mail, less frequently used apps, but then my games would launch over there as well. If you could choose the display Metro appears upon, it'd be far less onerous.

*UI formerly known as Metro.

Re-EDIT!: Windows-Page Up or Windows-Page Down will toggle the Start screen to another display without changing your primary screen. So, back to things being not so bad.

[Fugitive]

I tossed it on a VM for a quick look. A few things I found odd:

- You can't seem to install with the keyless-activate-later option, as it forced me to enter a key before proceeding and immediately activated it without any further prompting. If I'd known it was going to do that, I'd have burned one of the regular edition keys, not a pro one...

- The search won't find Windows Update on its own, so you have to dig for it in the control panel. Activating the Desktop toolbar makes it easier to get to the control panels, but a single-click won't open it, you have to double-click on a popup menu. Weird.

- I can't remember if this is was in the dev preview or not, but just clicking on the 'splash' page gets you a login prompt, without having to do the grab-and-drag-up with the mouse.

Edit:
- Trying to launch Minesweeper gets me a "No apps are installed to open this kind of link" error. Then I have to follow a "Get Minesweeper from the store" link to actually install it first, and...it wants me to log in to a Microsoft account? For Minesweeper?

[LMN8R]

Couple notes:

1) The Start Screen will pop up on whatever monitor you activate the corner on. Use the lower-left corner on monitor 1, it appears on monitor 1. Lower-left corner on monitor 2, it appears there. It'll remember whatever the last one you used was. If you're in a metro app, you can simply drag it down from the top with touch or mouse, and drag it over to the other monitor

2) Windows Update will appear under Settings search - links to both the PC Settings version, and the Control Panel version. Or you can just type "wuapp" and it'll launch the app there. Same thing for Win+R (run) wuapp

3) You can click on the lock screen or tap any letter/key on the keyboard to instantly dismiss the lock screen. You've never actually had to click and drag up, even in the developer preview. Maybe in the dev preview single clicks wouldn't do that, but tapping the keyboard definitely would.

[mono]

2) Windows Update will appear under Settings search - links to both the PC Settings version, and the Control Panel version. Or you can just type "wuapp" and it'll launch the app there. Same thing for Win+R (run) wuapp

It'd be awful nice if the default included ALL search types, and then you could narrow it down to files, settings or apps by selecting the sub-category.

[BleedTheFreak]

I just put it on a work laptop, and while it runs really smoothly, I don't like the IE10 implementation so far. How do I get my address bar back? So far I've had to hit the Windows key and then re-launch the IE app to do it.

Also, the back and forward buttons that need me to mouse over them to see them bother me, in fact I don't like that I have to mouse over to an area to bring up the usable icons very much so far.

[LMN8R]

It'd be awful nice if the default included ALL search types, and then you could narrow it down to files, settings or apps by selecting the sub-category.

Yes, it would be nice, but alas, it's done and out the door. That's why I provided alternative shortcuts.

[rei]

Good god. Why would you run IE at all?

[ineffablebob]

My workplace just upgraded from the dark age of XP to Windows 7, so I expect another 5 years or so before we get to Windows 8. The stuff I see in this thread and elsewhere makes me happy that this is the case.

[dgallina]

My first look today (in a vm) left me with mixed-to-negative feelings. Not-metro is pretty but very limited. I can appreciate what they were trying to do but don't think it works very well on a no touch device. The single tasked full screen way of doing things seems out of place on a large desktop where you are used to multitasking things. Some of the not metro bundled apps (mail) are also weak sauce right now.

The desktop side looks ok, but there's little integration between not-metro and desktop. Some changes (explorer toolbars) seem arbitrary and wrong-headed. Other things that should have been updated long ago (control panel) are same as ever. Also concerned that on touch devices the desktop side will be near unusable due to the ui issues (target size, etc).

In short: it's clearly more flexible than a limited system like the iPad (which I'm using to enter this), but I'm not convinced it's better. Seems like the worst of both interfaces slapped together to make a very 1.0 product.

Still possible that the surface tablets (ARM especially) may turn out better if the hardware is very good and the not-metro side is emphasized. That'd also require porting of many good apps to not-metro.

Diego

[wumpus]

I can't remember if this is was in the dev preview or not, but just clicking on the 'splash' page gets you a login prompt, without having to do the grab-and-drag-up with the mouse.

Or you could.. y'know.. press any key.. like the any key..

[wumpus]

I just put it on a work laptop, and while it runs really smoothly, I don't like the IE10 implementation so far. How do I get my address bar back? So far I've had to hit the Windows key and then re-launch the IE app to do it.

Did you try right clicking?

[Brad Wardell]

I really don't like it (compared to Windows 7).

Here are some videos I've made that outline what is driving me nuts about it:

The way search is done:
http://youtu.be/D4HrjJVpD3w

The UI design guidelines decrease usability (Wikipedia app example):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2wBvqhjwc

General Win8 RTM demo:
http://youtu.be/owDq0NfBy8I

[dgallina]

Nice videos and agree with just about all those points.

[Nellie]

THought I should probably have a look at what all the fuss is about having ignored it completely up until this point as both my main customers still run XP.

I've been running Windows 8 for about 10 minutes. If I was on a tablet rather than a PC the tile screen thing might be ok, not sure why I need to know the weather in Mumbai, but ok... As a concept it's fine, but could I not have some icons that represent stuff I actually do on a PC? Can I make the desktop the default screen instead of numerous tiles of crap I don't care about?

I've figured out the desktop icon, but how do I get a menu up to actually be able to launch the stuff I haven't installed yet? If I install Office, for arguments sake, is it going to automatically add icons to the tool bar/dock? How about once I've added the million and one things needed to make windows work these days? How do I get to those things that don't deserve to live on the tool bar but I need to run from time to time?

I'm really struggling to see how the new main screen works in a business environment: Games, video, camera, photos maps, weather in far off countries, messaging, store, random stuff from bing, two news tickers and a travel doodah? Great, can I have an icon to launch Excel instead?

I'm confused by it to be honest.

[mono]

Hoo Boy. Simply because of the no F8 safe mode, I now hate it.

I came back to my PC today, which has been working swimmingly for months, and just fine for the few days since RTM, and it wouldn't respond to mouse and keyboard. It was stuck on the lock screen, and the time stayed correct, so not frozen, but inputs were efectively dead. Unplugging them, moving them to other USB ports, unplugging all other USB devices, and full power off/reset, nothing would change the boot up to the welcome lock screen w/ dead mouse and keyboard. Num Lock wouldn't register. Of course, in BIOS, and with a Linux boot USB drive, the mouse and keyboard worked fine in any ports.

Something happened as Windows was booting/loading drivers and they were just dead on boot.

There was no way to get to safe mode. F8/Shift-F8/Shift were all no-go during start up. The 'smart/self-healing-windows has detected a problem starting' bullshit was never triggered despite multiple abrupt power-offs. Since I couldn't get into the OS, I couldn't tell it to start w/ advanced boot options or whatever they're called these days.

The only recourse I had was to create a Win 8 USB install disk on a thumb drive, boot to it and try repair options. Automatically fix problems didn't work, because Windows had been booting fine, save my input issue. 'Refresh' PC resulted in the same no-input issue.

Anyway, I had to wipe the C: drive and re-install to get things working again. This wasn't a catastrophe, since I don't keep data on C: and all my libraries had been re-mapped to my secondary Data drive, but what an enormous PITA.

Anyway, my concerns when I first heard that there's no way to invoke a Safe-Mode before boot certainly reared their head today. Not that it was gonna happen anyway, but no way does Win 8 go near any business PC that I administrate.

[wumpus]

The way search is done:
http://youtu.be/D4HrjJVpD3w

Did you really need a whole video to say

Typing on the start page always matches apps exclusively, never documents or folders, unless you click on the "files" selector in the right hand area of the search results?

While I agree this is definitely an odd choice on Microsoft's part, you know what else I object to? Losing 2 minutes of my life for a video that could be expressed in a sentence.

[wumpus]

The UI design guidelines decrease usability (Wikipedia app example):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2wBvqhjwc

w/r/t this you can just read the old opinion I had about the NY Times "Windows Reader" back in 2007.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/200...s-offline.html

Exactly, exactly the same thing. And it's also the same criticism I have of Wikipedia "apps" for iOS, even the nice ones. Assuming the site in question has a reasonable mobile version (and Wikipedia does), there's just no reason to built Yet Another Different GUI for your website, a new GUI that users have to figure out, understand, and process -- it's far better to put all the wood behind one arrowhead: making the very same web site that 99% of the world will inevitably use as kick-ass as possible.

See also: Twitter uproar about developer clients. Although Twitter is unusually incompetent at everything they do (see: iOS app, website, etc), most companies aren't. There's no good reason for Twitter to want the experience of Twitter filtered through 25 different lenses on 25 different platforms. It make about as much sense as the Windows 8 Wikipedia app vs. wikipedia.com (and m.wikipedia.com of course).

[Jazar]

I was seriously considering upgrading but I can't give up the start menu.

I like what Win7 (Vista?) added recently with the additional menu options for programs like Word, Steam, Remote Desktop, etc. The Recent documents, recently played, & common tasks.

With it my day to day activity may change, but I can almost always get to what I was working on with two clicks and without having to change screens. I don't have to organize anything by creating groups or keep pinning specific apps to the taskbar.

To take something like that away is a huge shame.

[Mark Asher]

Did you really need a whole video to say



While I agree this is definitely an odd choice on Microsoft's part, you know what else I object to? Losing 2 minutes of my life for a video that could be expressed in a sentence.

And then taking even another bite of your life to post what you posted!

[Starlight]

I'm confused by it to be honest.

I suggest the following;

Classic Shell - http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
7+ Taskbar Tweaker - http://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker

[Brad Wardell]

Did you really need a whole video to say



While I agree this is definitely an odd choice on Microsoft's part, you know what else I object to? Losing 2 minutes of my life for a video that could be expressed in a sentence.

Sorry about that. Was having a twitter war with friends who are Microsoft fans and felt I had to be vey very clear to them.

[Brad Wardell]

We should have a start8 build up shortly that has not just e start button but the windows 7 start menu

[Mark Asher]

We should have a start8 build up shortly that has not just e start button but the windows 7 start menu

Be interesting to see if Microsoft lets that stand or if they'll attempt to change the code to disallow whatever it is you're doing. They seem pretty intent on wanting people to use the Metro interface instead of a start menu.

[Starlight]

It's hardly the first utility to do it, Mark. If they block out windows customisation they're going to end up in a very nasty place in terms of antitrust again, given how unhappy the EU is with WindowsRT.

No offence to Brad, but I really do recommend ClassicShell, which does the windows button, taskbar and much more. (And some of the Win7 bar behavior drives me nuts, so I use Win7+ taskbar tweaker...)

[mono]

Be interesting to see if Microsoft lets that stand or if they'll attempt to change the code to disallow whatever it is you're doing. They seem pretty intent on wanting people to use the Metro interface instead of a start menu.

The Classic Shell that Starlight linked just above your post already does the trick. It intercepts the Windows key and just provides the Win 7 Start menu, including shut down, control panel, and all apps.

You can still access the Win 8 Start screen by hovering your mouse in a corner, but I can't see why you'd bother.

[rei]

This is shaping up to be Vista Second Edition.

[Brad Wardell]

It's hardly the first utility to do it, Mark. If they block out windows customisation they're going to end up in a very nasty place in terms of antitrust again, given how unhappy the EU is with WindowsRT.

No offence to Brad, but I really do recommend ClassicShell, which does the windows button, taskbar and much more. (And some of the Win7 bar behavior drives me nuts, so I use Win7+ taskbar tweaker...)

That's fine. I am not looking to replace my shell. I just want my Start button and start menu without losing any of the good things Windows 8 brings.

[mono]

That's fine. I am not looking to replace my shell. I just want my Start button and start menu without losing any of the good things Windows 8 brings.

ClassicShell offers the ability to do nothing but replace the Start menu w/ the Win 7 one (or can go back to XP style if you're old school). I un-ticked the taskbar checkbox during setup, so nothing Win 8 changed but gaining a classic start menu.

It doesn't even 'replace' the new Start screen. It just adds the standard Start button, and intercepts the Win key to invoke it. Hovering your mouse in the corner still brings up the Win 8 Start UI.

Not that you shouldn't bother, doesn't hurt to have alternatives.

[wumpus]

Don't forget you can right click the hover in the bottom left (where the start button used to be) to get a shortcut menu of fairly useful stuff, too.

[stusser]

Yeah, all that stuff works, it just requires a slight bit of dexterity to execute properly, particularly if you have multiple monitors. It's very easy to slide over to the other monitor. I know MS said they made these areas "sticky", but I still have to pay attention to make it work.