REPORTED!Originally Posted by Tom Chick
Got to Blue Mountain and parked for the night.
Love the game, such great atmosphere. Gravity was a nightmare to complete, Black House too (but more because of bugs haha).
The combat system continues to baffle and tempt me. I can tell it is extremely rich and offers many rewards off vastly different talisman equipments but I always feel 40 AP short of what I want to do. I guess thats the point!
I also love how no one really talks or groups in this game, so many of us play it solo.
Thanks - Was in the closed beta so yeah, thats probably points from the pre-order since I didn't order any packs.
wow - isn't that like a quarter of the game you've completed over a weekend??
I think that is the greatest weakness of the game so far for me.
It would help if chat didn't get fubar every time you zone.
It would also help if we had fewer mandatory solo instances.
I love to solo in mmo's, but I don't like it being forced.
Well, after I played this friday evening and most of sunday - I have some thoughts on the game:
++ Setting
++ Atmosphere
++ Stability
++ Story
+ Visuals
+ Voice acting
+ Skill SYSTEM
- Combat
- Crafting
- Gear
- Skill variety
Overall, I'd say if you're into Lovecraftian stuff and want a refreshing modern day take on the RPG/MMO genre - this is a no-brainer. There's enough content there to fill the free month easily. Unless, of course, you absolutely hate the idea of other people roaming around in the same world.
If you want an idea of what it feels like to play it, think traditional adventure wrapped in an action/RPG package. Then add most of the standard MMO trappings and you have The Secret World.
The closest comparison is actually SWtOR - but in a good way. It takes the best parts of that game and significantly improves upon them (story and quests) - and it manages to set itself apart from WoW and other themeparks. It has fully functional 3-faction PvP with 225 players duking it out without significant slowdowns. SWtOR was brought to its knees with 16 players.
The best part of the game is how the quests are REALLY the meat of the game. It's not 1 cutscene - kill 50 beasties - 1 cutscene. It's 1 cutscene - immerse yourself/think/fight a bit/wonder - 1 cutscene. It just flows naturally - and you don't go from hub to hub to collect 10 quests at each place. They've designed the game around solving 1 quest at a time - and they've actually succeeded. At least for my part. I want to concentrate on each quest - and I care enough about the story to finish each of them. The writing is miles ahead of every single other MMO out there - but that's subjective of course. Some might find it too opaque or overly "mysterious" - but I find it's mixed with a good dose of down-to-earth characters and stuff that makes sense.
It's very easy to play as a singleplayer game and experience most of the content. Group dungeons is the most painful exception - but because there are so many players in each dimension - I think it should be easy to find some quickly and just get through each dungeon. At least, for the first few weeks. Just pick the RP dimension Arcadia - and people will be reasonable for the most part. But the dungeons aren't necessary at all.
For me, the primary downsides are about combat and mechanics. The actual combat is not particularly bad - but it's just not that interesting. It works ok - but lacks variety and doesn't have that visceral adrenaline kick of the best systems. One would think that with 525 skills - you wouldn't be wanting for variety, but I find that most skills are about a relatively small selection of effects. There's a distinct lack of messy/special/cool skills like stealth/backstab and such (yeah, I'm a stealth player). It's not all bad and there ARE some utility skills like limited teleport and a few stuns - but most of them are too samey for my tastes.
They've also opted to limit the player to 7 active skills and 7 passive skills. Obviously, the first reaction is that it's TOO limited - and then you start to trust the developers, because the game is actually pretty damn good in most ways. But after careful consideration, I've found myself thinking it should be 8 skills. Mostly because of the dual weapon paradigm of having 2 builders and 2 finishers almost as a requirement for efficiency. That leaves you with 3 non-spamming skills - and I find that's not quite enough. 1 more would be perfect - because then you could fit in a utility skill without feeling you were gimping your build entirely.
Gear is also rather bland and linear in design. It's clear that the developers didn't want gear to be a major factor - and I understand their reasons. It's the fashion these days to go against the traditional themepark model - and even if I think most developers don't understand how to evolve the genre while keeping the good bits, there are plenty of players who think it's the right direction. Guild Wars 2 is doing much the same thing in terms of gear and progression - and that game is reaching previously unseen levels of hype. Personally, I like my gear to matter - and I like my progression. What I DON'T like is the treadmill ala Bilbo's "butter spread over too much bread" sentence. I don't think those two things have to go hand-in-hand, but obviously that's what the modern direction in design thinks. I consider it an overreaction to people being tired of the themepark model.
At this point - having played a combined ~30 hours or so (I was in 2 betas) - I'm ready to rank it 8.5/10.
This is assuming the content stays interesting - and keeps me hooked throughout the game. This game is literally all about the story/quests. Without that level of quality - the actual gameplay wouldn't be able to keep this game alive long. I'd say the gameplay portion is more like 6/10 for me.
This also, much more importantly perhaps, means that once you've experienced the quests - I'm not sure what we're supposed to be doing. Yes, there are 3 factions - supposedly with some variety in quest dialogue and stuff. But from what I've seen of it, that's WAY too limited. I don't think many will really want to experience the story again just for that reason. The PvP/Raids both work reasonably well - but because of the distinct lack of progression once you've mastered a few skill categories and gotten QL10 (max) gear - I just don't see it keeping people for long. So, it's absolutely key that Funcom produces quality content at a steady rate - and I must admit, I don't really think that's possible.
Producing top-level story content like what's in the game now, is something that takes a LOT of work and a lot creative inspiration. I'll be extremely impressed if they can produce this level of content for more than ~6 months post-release.
So, to be safe - consider it a standard singleplayer game with a couple of hundred hours of gameplay - and don't expect much more from the initial investment. That's still pretty damn good value, I'd say.
Also, I feel I must emphasize that the early access has been ROCK SOLID. I've encountered 1 quest bug (Men in Black Vans) - and I petitioned a GM to trigger the resolution. So, it wasn't even an issue.
Technically, it performs very well with full details (except Tessellation) - and I've only ever experienced lag in Fusang with 225 players. I've had a few 1-second spikes, reminding me of Age of Conan sieges. But all things considered, this is absolutely one of the strongest launches I've seen.
Last edited by DKDArtagnan; 07-02-2012 at 02:14 AM.
As for the in-game store, yeah, I don't like the concept at all.
Unfortunately, it's something we're either going to get used to - or stop gaming. Pretty much all modern MMOs do this, including WoW, GW2, LOTRO, DDO, and most of the others.
Even a ton of non-MMOs do this.
It's just an extra layer of what you can do to exploit people when you're also providing entertainment.
Thankfully, there's no power involved with the items in the shop - and there are plenty of alternative ways to get your clothing.
Since the game is otherwise pretty strong, I'd say getting worked up about this means you should probably stop playing or stop pretending it bothers you that much. Playing the game whilst bitching about how it exploits you seems a bit silly - as you can just ignore superficial stuff like store-specific clothing and enjoy the story.
I'm liking the game but when a friend asked about buying a lifetime subscription I suggested he definitely try it before buying. For all my anticipation I'm feeling a bit flat about the game.
My observations:
Characters. The character models look crap and have limited options. Sullen faces, plastic hair and douchebag outfits. It's nice to see that in the apocalypse young and groovy people will be our last line of defence. Most Lovecraft novels don't feature the cast from the latest teen drama, why are there no older characters?
Builds. They make a pretty complex combat system that encourages experimenting with weapons and skills. Then they don't allow you to respec when you realise that your build is utter shit. All those points you put into skills, if you don't put them into head and talisman slots you are screwed. For a game that brags about not having levels it's pretty duplicitous to then make sure that unless people have the right QL for gear they will never see the end game content. As a tip, never develop a hammer and pistol character unless you want to be a laughingstock in PVP.
Quests limits. Limiting the number of quests that you have might make you focus on them more closely. It will also definitely force you to run around Kingsmouth 20 times more.
The investigative quests. I thought I would enjoy these but the hand holding from every other MMO has made me incapable of playing this like a point and click adventure. Some of the puzzles are a bit too opaque. I'm certain there's a moustache-made-from-cat-hair-adventure down the line. Not for me but I can understand other people's joy.
The writing. Oh God, why do people say that the writing is good? The quest monologues are long drawn and embarrassing. Whoever wrote them has a tin ear for conversation. The secret world is filled with cliches and stereotypes.
Multiplayer. The smaller battlefield seems to come down to the winning team hiding on the fringes and letting the other two sides wear each other down. It's a small skirmish match but with crappy communication it makes it hard to play as a team. It would be nice to have voice comms or something. As a funny note- I have never, ever seen the bottom two teams join up to take the first on. More often than not it turns into a bloodbath to decide who the loser is.
The larger battlefield (Fusang) gives a bit more time to people so that some coordination can occur. It's fun to be part of a zerg but as a hammer and pistols guy (skill level 5 for both, shoot me now) I die if I'm not hidden in the herd. There's nothing really outstanding in this map- I was hoping for more game forms than capturing spawn points and control points- ingame missions or something to give a bit of direction.
I'll stop the list here before I start thinking too much about whether I really want to play this as much as I thought I would. I've just reached the Savage Coast and I'm still enjoying my progress. Look for the blond in the red mini skirt (But not high heels like Tom desires. I'm in red hightops.) waving her friggin' useless hammer around at the wildlife.
LOL DKDArtagnan, enforced downtime is a good time to force you to reflect! I see our views diverge in quite a few places.
Last edited by Peter Frazier; 07-02-2012 at 02:11 AM.
No question about that - and that's fine :)
I can't say I agree about the problem of no respecs, considering the first tiers of skills in each category can be unlocked very quickly. Beyond that, the skills are so similar that you'd have to be mighty good at gimping yourself to not have a reasonably efficient build almost no matter what you do.
Also, I'd say not placing skill points into any of the Talisman skills is something very few people would do - but maybe I'm overestimating people here :) You get talismans very early in the game, and it's spelled out for you that you need to invest in skills to wear them.
The quest limitation is very good for the way the game delivers its content - but I've mentioned that
The writing, however, is clearly something very subjective. If you downright don't like it - then I'd say just stop playing. Without writing - this game isn't really worth playing. At least, you'd most likely be better served playing any of the other current themeparks.
I literally loathe the writing in most modern games, especially stuff like WoW and whatever variation of their blueprint Bioware is doing.
I really liked the writing in Age of Conan - and I was quite fond of The Longest Journey. So, it's no surprise that I like the writing in this one.
But, to each his own.
Marcus, let me ask you a very simple yes or no question. Are there customization options in Secret World exclusive to people who spend additional money above and beyond the price of the retail package and the subscription fee?
If your answer is "yes", then I've made my point.
-Tom
The times they are a changin, people don't come out and fill up your car for no extra charge anymore either Tom ;)
Tom
Is it because the game is subscription-based you don't like the option to buy extra clothes in the cash shop?
Not liking the business model is a perfectly valid point to make without you minimizing the point by dismissing it as "getting worked up", "bitching", or "silly". People like you are why companies can do this stuff, and will continue to do this stuff, and will push it as far as corporately possible.
But I grant that it's not that big a deal, because Secret World is going to have much bigger problems than whether or not people like the microtransactions. I hate to say this, but I think this is doomed to be yet another EA failure, and I hate to say it partly because I like the game.
-Tom
I'm not sure why "people like me" are any more responsible, since I assume you also paid for the game?
Since I'm never going to spend real money in their store, there's no logical reason why I'd be responsible at all.
Also, I don't like the concept of cash shops, and I will always speak against it.
Personally, I'd stop playing the game if I felt the incentive to pay extra money. I'd say games like LOTRO and DDO are much closer to doing that, though you can still get by without it.
Perhaps, though I'm not sure what kind of investment they've made. I hope it wasn't as expensive as SWtOR.But I grant that it's not that big a deal, because Secret World is going to have much bigger problems than whether or not people like the microtransactions. I hate to say this, but I think this is doomed to be yet another EA failure, and I hate to say it partly because I like the game.
-Tom
But I see it having more staying power than SWtOR - just not for as many people.
Partly. I hate how free-to-play and microtransactions affect game design. Once I've paid for a game, I don't really want it trying to reach back into my wallet. I wouldn't mind as much if there were some way to apply ingame currency, even if it was prohibitively grindy (see Jetpack Joyride for an example of how to take a little of the sting out of microtrasactions).
I'm also leery where this is going to go. I'm guessing EA and Funcom are going to Sims the hell out of Secret World's cool Matrix aesthetic to try to make up for what I presume is going to be its limited appeal.
-Tom
As I wrote in my post, because when I mentioned it, you dismissed it as "bitching", "getting worked up", and "silly". I, too, will never spend a nickel on the red miniskirt and high heels, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't worth criticizing when we talk about the game.
-Tom
Well, we fully agree about the microtransaction stuff. I hate it more than words can say.
But I'm also trying to stay pragmatic and realising that it's logically possible to have a cash shop without necessarily tainting the game.
I mean "taint" in a way that actually makes the game NOT worth playing without paying money.
So, basically, as long as I can get significant enjoyment without paying more than the subscription - I don't see any logical reason to NOT play. Unless, of course, there's an alternative that would give me more entertainment.
As horrible a reality as it is, we have business people making too many important decisions. But we also have artists that get to pour their heart and soul into games. Rare, yes, but it happens.
Seems to me that TSW is a game where the artists have had their say, and I'm definitely going to be playing it for the first free month. There's no indication of having to pay more in that time, so it's all good.
But I can't see myself supporting a cash shop ever, unless it ends up being a better deal - financially speaking.
You're quite right, and it's hard to evaluate the reaction online. It just seemed to me that you weren't aware of the alternative clothing options and as such might have thought the situation was worse than it actually was.
You seemed to imply that you were likely to stop playing the game for this reason, and that prompted my take on your reaction.
But, I apologize if I misunderstood your words.
I just wish they would finish their maintenance so I can play on my day off!
Overall, been enjoying the game so far. I am starting to get into the higher level skills and think my character is doing okay with his build. It is taking a little while, but am finally starting to understand how certain skills work well together.
The solo quest instances can be a bit frustrating playing with my wife. She has a build that works well with us playing together, but in the tougher solo instances, she has a great deal of trouble completing them. One of them she had to skip so far which gets us out of sorts on quest lines.
Fortunately for me, I don't really care what my characters look like and probably won't ever look at the cash shop. I can understand the frustration with the model, though. Things like asking to pay more up front to reserve names seemed pretty foolish to me also, but some may be happy for the service and I can just choose to ignore it. As long as it isn't something critical game-wise that I am missing out on, I usually can ignore cash shops in games.
Edit: Oh, and I am Kulv in game, in case anyone was wondering who that was in chat at times. If there is a cabal that is Templar on the Arcadia server (can cabals be cross-server?), would be interested in that also.
Last edited by Kelan; 07-02-2012 at 04:26 AM. Reason: name/cabal request
Oh lordy, no. I really like a lot of what the game does. And in terms of what I don't like, the silliness about selling costumes is pretty low on the list.
-Tom
Fair enough :)
In a strange way, the gameplay design reminds me a lot of my experience with the GW2 beta. The primary difference being the story/setting/atmosphere - and they're the main reasons I'm being entertained.
See, I was hoping for the X-Files and I ended up in the Matrix.
My biggest problem with the extra clothing options in the cash shop is that the clothing options available through character creation and the clothing store in town (maybe there are other ones?) are very limited. This leads to me feeling like i can't customize my character's appearance much without spending $30 in the cash shop.
What about decks and the stuff you get in faction rank?
I honestly haven't felt the need to change my appearance so far - and it seems to me there are plenty of cool outfits outside the cash shop.
That said, I haven't really gone out of my way to research this. I just took a look at the deck outfits and knew I was going to be a Ninja. I don't really care about much else ;)
Peter, there are -tons- of older characters. You just can't play them, which I'm assuming is what bothers you. And, yeah, that'd be nice, but I assume if pressed about it Funcom would have some sort of game-fictional logic behind that. PCs are after all meant to be newly awakened to their arcane powers.
I do agree that they could probably do with offering more guidance about the skill system if they're going to stick to their guns about not respeccing. It's not quite as bad as you've portrayed it because the ability to repeat quests does mean that someone who grinds enough can eventually simply grind around to a build that will take them back into new content, but I don't know that that really addresses the issue. In general the game seems a little light on the training. I'm all for not holding my hand for the actual quest content, but there were basic things the game never really clued me in on like the finer points of crafting (it does explain the funky shape system - for weapons, not talismans - and if you find the right quest, how to attach glyphs, but it doesn't, for example, explain that you have to combine stacks of five materials to go up to the next material grade and that nothing at all uses base grade materials), the fact that I could click questions on characters with dialogue multiple times until they hit a check mark, the fact that I could detach and lock part of my bag to have an item use hotbar (which is really unintuitive), the fact that there are vendors that can sell you better sprint speeds, etc.
The writing is just going to be one of those matters of taste thing. I think it's a little awkward (maybe translation?), but it's also full of funny, quotable lines and creepy scenarios, and I find characters like Deputy Andy pretty memorable.
My new favourite line from a mmo is now one like this (i am paraprasing) "I can kill all of you, but I know you guys will be revived by the bees. Fucking bees. I must search a permanent solution". Something like that. A sweet 4th wall breaking knip from a boss in the game.
Hehe, lots of amusing pop-culture references, and unlike WoW - there's a measure of verisimilitude about having them there :)
"Aren't you a bit short for an Illuminati?" had me chuckling...
I am impressed how funcom has managed to create this detailed world. Everithing in the real world seems here too. It just works, is believable and pretty in a ugly way. Wow, Funcom outdid thenselves.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote