Ascension Live Challenge! Sinnick vs. DeForrestation

[sinnick]

During the March Ascension Tournament, I asked for advice from some of the top players on how to improve my game. As a way of thinking about strategy, Dave Perkins and I started posting our turns for all to see.

It's cool! But it's kind of shitting up that thread, and I feel guilty for distracting people from talking about the games that everyone else in the tournament are playing.

So I thought it would be interesting to "live" play someone else in another thread. And DeForrestation volunteered. He's currently ranked higher than me in the tournament, and he's beat me numerous times! I'm sure he can teach me a thing or two.

We'll both post our turns with screenshots, and justification for why we did what we did. And you should feel free to weigh in on what you would have done differently.

[sinnick]

This game will be played with both the base deck and the expansion.



And deForrestation gets the first turn!

[Nixxter]

Sinnick, please, I beg of you, nail the Duke of Lies, aka Xeron and get my Apprentice back from Deforrestation.

Seriously, this is cool, thank you for doing it!

[Justin Fletcher]

F5, F5, F5, F5...

I thought this thing was live! I have pearls of wisdom to give!

[DeForrestation]

Hello everyone, and sorry for the delay in our "live" game. Thanks to sinnick for setting this up!

The Opening Layout



From left to right: Arbiter of Fate, Burrower Mk II, Corrosive Widow, Runic Lycanthrope, Black Hole, Void Initiate

Arbiter of Fate
When this card is revealed in the center row each player is offered the chance to banish a card from their hand or discard pile.

Playing this card draws a card, but you must discard a card from your hand immediately after. This card is excellent at the beginning of the game, it cycles your deck and cuts out a weaker card in one shot!

Burrower Mark II
A mechana construct. Like all Mechana constructs, it is worth as many points as it costs to acquire, making this little guy quit an easy way to grab 3 points. Unfortunately, the burrower has little use early, as its ability (drawing a card) only fires when putting another mechana construct into play. There are no others on the board currently, so I think this card will stay here for a round or three.

Corrosive Widow
A 4 power Monster card that is worth 3 points when killed. More importantly, defeating this card forces your opponent to discard a construct in play. In the early game your opponent is likely to only have one or two constructs, so this card can cost your opponent time as he waits for a precious early construct to cycle back into their hand.

Runic Lycanthrope
One of the "More than a Mystic" 3 point cards. One of my favorites, too! When played after a Lifebound hero, the Lycanthrope gives an extra 2 Power!

Black Hole
The ultimate Void Construct, this 5 point bad boy culls a card from your hand in return for 1 Power. The effect of this card on the early game can't be stated enough. Within a few turns, errant Apprentices and Militia won't be mucking up your carefully laid plans.

Void Initiate
This little guy offers up 1 Rune, and allows you to banish a card from your hand or discard pile.

A lot of culling cards are on the board. The result will be lean decks for both players, and lots of powerful cards seeing repeat action. For me the obvious choice is the Black Hole. Purchased now, it would be in my hand by Round 3 or 4, and start culling cards like crazy. If I were to luck out and draw the elusive 5 Apprentice start that is. I can assume that whatever culling card I purchase, sinnick is going to snap up the other one. Or two if he decides the Arbiter and the Initiate offers more utility in a double dose of deck winnowing.

The game opens with an Arbiter of Fate being revealed. Because of this, I will be given the opportunity to banish one card from my hand.

My first draw: 4 Apprentices and 1 Miltia. Damn! Not only does this mean I can't buy the BH this round, it all but guarantees I won't be able to purchase it next either (barring an unforseen fate card event), next hand my draw will be exactly the same. Now time to cut losses, the Arbiter of Fate is still an excellent card, and I think my only choice. First, I will banish the Militia in my hand, he can't do anything in this round, and I plan to purchase more Void power later on. Besides I need all 4 Apprentices to purchase the arbiter, and I rarely pass up an early chance to banish a card. sinnick certainly won't :)

That's what I would do. What do ya'll think?

[Tom Chick]

I love it when a Corrosive Widow and a couple of juicy constructs show up early. You can practically hear the Widow licking her creepy spider lips.

-Tom

[Justin Fletcher]

I would go Runic Lycanthrope and Void Initiate. I think the buying power+ of Greenie Wolf Man trumps the draw power of the Arbiter, especially early on, when you'll probably just draw another Apprentice or Militia. The downside is that you'll reveal two new cards in the center instead of one, which I hate doing in the early rounds.

[Mini-Cyn]

Going off of this thread idea, I think a spectator mode in ascension would be an awesome addition. Or at the very least replays (if there are replays forgive my ignorance). I'd go for lycanthrope and void initiate as well. Depending on my mood, or expectations of the game I'd also pick up the burrower next turn as well. I do enjoy a good mechana deck. This of course depends on what's on the table.

[DeForrestation]

I would go Runic Lycanthrope and Void Initiate. I think the buying power+ of Greenie Wolf Man trumps the draw power of the Arbiter, especially early on, when you'll probably just draw another Apprentice or Militia. The downside is that you'll reveal two new cards in the center instead of one, which I hate doing in the early rounds.

Going off of this thread idea, I think a spectator mode in ascension would be an awesome addition. Or at the very least replays (if there are replays forgive my ignorance). I'd go for lycanthrope and void initiate as well. Depending on my mood, or expectations of the game I'd also pick up the burrower next turn as well. I do enjoy a good mechana deck. This of course depends on what's on the table.

Hmmm... perhaps this is why, after 250+ games I'm only 5 over .500 :)

Everyone really thinks my best move is to let sinnick have a huge chance at getting both of the major culling cards? It goes against my most ingrained instincts to pass up a draw/banish ability. The Arbiter will appear in round 3 or 4, and will probably show up with whatever other card I acquire next turn. Remember, this is just my logic... I will certainly take the advice of the crowd, tyranny of the majority and whatnot.

[wilykat]

Hmmm... perhaps this is why, after 250+ games I'm only 5 over .500 :)

Everyone really thinks my best move is to let sinnick have a huge chance at getting both of the major culling cards? It goes against my most ingrained instincts to pass up a draw two/banish ability. The Arbiter will appear in round 3 or 4, and will probably show up with whatever other card I acquire next turn. Remember, this is just my logic... I will certainly take the advice of the crowd, tyranny of the majority and whatnot.

note that the Arbiter does not have the ability you think it does.

[StGabe]

IMO the choice is clear: get the arbiter. The problem with the Void Initiate/Lycanthrope is that it increases your total draw length by 2 (you need to draw 12 cards to get through your deck). That means that you'll see your culling card less often and your deck will end up significantly fatter. With one militia already gone due to the fate ability of the Arbiter you've got a good chance to get a lot of culling out of the way in the early game setting yourself up for great combos in the late game. If you grow your deck too fast you won't get nearly as much momentum.

[DeForrestation]

I fixed the above posts where I erroneously stated that the arbiter draws two/banishes, when it only draws a single card. Beware of ctrl-c. Thanks to wilykat for pointing that out. Also, like St. Gabe said, I'm doing my thang and taking the Arbiter.

Result:


The Arbiter of Fate has been replaced by a Temple Librarian.

[Dave Perkins]

Holy nerd hive.

[Dave Perkins]

I would have banished a card from my hand, and taken the Lycanthrope.

I LOVE BANISHING CARDS

[sinnick]

I would have banished a card from my hand, and taken the Lycanthrope.

I LOVE BANISHING CARDS

That's precisely what I did!



I banished the useless Militia, and took the Lycanthrope and the Void Initiate. In their places showed up two Monsters:



Hopefully some Lifebound will show up soon, so that my Werewolf can reach his full potential.

[RichVR]

Wow. Cool game. Should I buy it?

[DeForrestation]

It's monster town in here! A Wind Tyrant (Power 5, Gain 3 Runes) and his lil brother the Doom Weeper (Power 4, Gain 2 Runes) have revealed themselves. Neither of us can kill any of these monsters yet, we both have only a single militia in our deck, thanks to the Arbiter. Plus, sinnick got the same first hand, so we can be pretty sure that he will only have 4 Runes in the next hand as well. The Black Hole remains a big prize.

So here comes my big choice. My deck will cycle after this turn, with a good chance of the Arbiter and/or the card I acquire this turn appearing. I can buy a Mystic and have a great chance of getting the Black Hole, or I buy the Librarian and A Heavy Infantry and hope for the 5 Runes through deck shuffling magic.

With 3 decent monsters on the board, I'm taking the Librarian/Heavy route. Here goes
nothing, and let me know what you would have done differently.

[sinnick]

Of course I only drew 4 runes again, as DeF mentioned.

Given there are so many monsters on the board, I decided to grab 2 Heavies instead of that Burrower.



Board stays the same! ...for now.

[sinnick]

Wow. Cool game. Should I buy it?

Absolutely. It's my favourite iPhone game by a long shot.

[DeForrestation]

Yeah Rich, it really set the bar for iPhone games, and kinda started an asynchronous gameplay renaissance.

[Justin Fletcher]

DeF: I would have taken the Librarian alone. With only one militia and another draw card, getting five apprentices for the Black Hole is almost a certainty. Putting the Heavy in there lowers your chances.

Sinnick: I would have taken a Mystic for the same reason: increase the odds of buying the Black Hole. Though two Heavies in the same hand would kill the Doom Weeper, which would net you two runes for that purpose.

[RichVR]

Just to be sure, it's Ascension: Chronicles of the Godslayer? I don't want to buy some crappy ripoff.

[krayzkrok]

Watching these "live" games shows me how much I have to learn about playing this! It also means that I get to realise what stupid mistakes I've just made shortly after playing them. But then, some of you have been playing Ascension for well over a year, right?

[krayzkrok]

Just to be sure, it's Ascension: Chronicles of the Godslayer? I don't want to buy some crappy ripoff.

Yes, and then Return of the Fallen is an IAP. Pretty much essential if you enjoy the game.

[sinnick]

DeF: I would have taken the Librarian alone. With only one militia and another draw card, getting five apprentices for the Black Hole is almost a certainty. Putting the Heavy in there lowers your chances.

Now that's very interesting. If I were in DeF's shoes I would have done the same as him. I never consider burning runes on the first or second turn of the game, but what you say makes sense. Hmmmm! You learn something new every day.

[Dave Perkins]

Thumbs up for Jason's idea!

[sinnick]

Who?5

[Dave Perkins]

Justin, of course!

[DeForrestation]

DeF: I would have taken the Librarian alone. With only one militia and another draw card, getting five apprentices for the Black Hole is almost a certainty. Putting the Heavy in there lowers your chances.

Curses! Justin was right and I am dealt a pretty awful hand for the situation (3 Apprentice, The Arbiter, and my Heavy Infantry. So bad I slept on it! Playing the Arbiter draws an Apprentice. I am left with an agonizing choice:

1)Do not banish a card, and grab 2 Heavy Infantries, creating the start of a power deck. Doing this will will mean the Black Hole is out of reach, unless I can kill the monsters worth runes.

1)Banish an Apprentice and take a Mystic. Although this gets me closer to the Black Hole I so desperately want that starts kind of hybrid deck that often leads to failure.

There are so many big monsters on the board that I'm gonna grab the Two Heavies and hope I don't screw myself out of the early runes I need for building my deck. It's possible that 2 of my 3 Heavies will join with 3 apprentices to get me a Doom Weeper kill and the BH. With my leftover 2 Power a Cultist goes down. First Blood!

Again the board stays the same.

[Dave Perkins]

I choose NOT to banish a card from my hand about 2% of the time. I'm a banishing fiend. So you know what I would do!