Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread so we can talk about [REDACTED]

[Quitch]

Well, you only know that now that you've watched a YouTube video. That's not a negative because it's the same as The Witcher 2: I didn't appreciate the profound change in perspective until I replayed it. But I was already excited to explore it just from playing the game. In ME3 the story wrapped so closely around me it was hard to see cause and effect, if that makes sense.

I can't criticize it further than that until I've replayed it.

That's my point, I didn't need to see an alternate play out to enjoy it. The relationship between Tali and Legion made sense in my game. Had the dialogue from that other game been in mine it would have ruined the moment, and visa versa.

That, for me, is the beauty of the C&C system. Not knowing that I did mission A and not mission B, but rather that the story shapes itself seamlessly around my actions. I don't need to know where it does it, only that everything fits just right. I think it's a huge factor in why people get so wrapped up in the story, and why there's such anger at the ending.

[Giaddon]

It's practical if you use a savegame editor. That's my plan.

You can do that, but I feel that, no matter the intent, it will end up feeling like a laboratory experiment (if I change these variables, what will the result be?) rather than a natural narrative experience.

[rowe33]

What's this C&C that people keep referring to?

Thanks! Was a bit confusing as I probably missed the original post where it was defined...

[Giaddon]

Command and... Er, choices and consequences.

[Quaro]

Ideally, I would have liked to see maybe 4 or 5 'main' endings, gated by various factors going all the way back to ME1. So you're character would have at most 2 or 3 to pick from. And each with a distinct ending sequence. Also a montage put together from smaller choices, like in Fallout.

[Quitch]

I'd have segmented dialogue and small segmented in-game scenes. You can then piece them together in whatever order you need according to decisions made.

[Tim James]

You can do that, but I feel that, no matter the intent, it will end up feeling like a laboratory experiment (if I change these variables, what will the result be?) rather than a natural narrative experience.

I guess we'll find out!

Don't worry about me. I'm already planning to replay it to try another class and listen to Renegade dialogue. It's not going to harm my feelings on the game. Spending the time to replay ME1 and ME2 probably would though.

[Polite Nate]

If I ever go back to replay games like this one, I have the hardest time not making the same decisions all the way through, unless there was something that I really didn't like how it turned out. I guess I'm weird that way, but after I sort of sketch out "my" playthrough initially, it just feels off... definitely that "lab experiment" feel, and I inevitably abandon it early.

Strangely enough just knowing that the options exist make things more satisfying though, even though there's no good reason for it to be so. It's like Alpha Protocol: I'll probably never get a chance to replay it, but I loved how bananas different everybody's story ended up being even if I didn't experience all the differences myself.

[Tim James]

I haven't thought about it too much, but I think I just like watching the differences play out to expand my appreciation of the game and the depth of the system. I'm a bit detatched from that part of most games.

[Quitch]

If I ever go back to replay games like this one, I have the hardest time not making the same decisions all the way through, unless there was something that I really didn't like how it turned out. I guess I'm weird that way, but after I sort of sketch out "my" playthrough initially, it just feels off... definitely that "lab experiment" feel, and I inevitably abandon it early.

Strangely enough just knowing that the options exist make things more satisfying though, even though there's no good reason for it to be so. It's like Alpha Protocol: I'll probably never get a chance to replay it, but I loved how bananas different everybody's story ended up being even if I didn't experience all the differences myself.

I play things the same way. Multiple runs of the Baldur's Gate series all turned out pretty similar. Likewise with Mass Effect. Even when I tried to kill the Rachni Queen my squad argued and I backed down. Argh!

[Pogue Mahone]

I do tend to replay the Mass Effect games, but that's mainly to try out different classes and difficulty levels. I just can't bring myself to use a lot of the renegade options in these games, for some reason. The little things here and there, like pushing a dude out a window in ME2 can be fun. But causing mass genocide, like killing the rachni queen, makes me queasy.

[Brad Grenz]

According to this page, Amazon are offering full refunds for PS3 copies of Mass Effect 3.

Whatever side of the ending fence you're on, this is becoming quite the story.

Apparently they'll accept returns on any game if you say you weren't satisfied with the purchase. It's not a special policy for ME3.

[Quitch]

I wish there'd been more Jack in ME3. I appreciated the character in ME2 but never used her much, but in ME3 she's grown as a person and feels like a good friend. Her very nature makes it seem like she's been with the team for years and I'd have loved her to rejoin the Normandy.

[Hammet]

Apparently they'll accept returns on any game if you say you weren't satisfied with the purchase. It's not a special policy for ME3.

I see, my bad. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Woolen Horde]

Dr. Ray steps in
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

[DarthMasta]

Dr. Ray steps in
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

So, chances of a "Mass Effect 3: Epilogue" DLC are rising? :D

[Jack Howitzer]

I wish there'd been more Jack in ME3. I appreciated the character in ME2 but never used her much, but in ME3 she's grown as a person and feels like a good friend. Her very nature makes it seem like she's been with the team for years and I'd have loved her to rejoin the Normandy.

Agree completely. It felt as if the character had grown and matured, would have been nice to explore that new, more mature, personality further.

[Teiman]

Dr. Ray steps in
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

Heres the TL;DR version:

[DarthMasta]

Heres the TL;DR version:

Not sure if complete post.

[Quitch]

Perhaps he's being cynical, I found it encouraging. I don't know that it's possible to salvage the existing ending though, and it's ironic that they're going to provide answers to an ending that was supposed to encourage speculation.

Still, we shall see. The current ending appears to be as a result of planned endings not working out and an impending deadline. Maybe the creative team will welcome getting the chance to revisit it?

[Knightsaber]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...-Mass-Effect-3

Pretty funny.

And Dr. Ray's post is about 99.5% lip service imo. We'll see.

[Teiman]

I like how the sister forum, BrokenForum, theres a "no talking about the end" spoiler thread. I don't want another me3 thread. I feel somewhat sad the discussion about the end is a shadow that big, and has hidden possible comments about other parts of the game. Some of the comments about the end are interesting (there are a few very good post in this thread), but there are a lot of comments that add nothing interesting. Also, a lot of good intentioned people just repeat things that other good intentioned people have already said.

And about that Dr. Ray dude. He say absolutelly nothing. Of course, he say he support his team. I applaud that, but then again, *talking about the game* what new he have to say? nothing... other than "we goot FAT metacritic scores".

This dude, and all his team, has made a awesome game for me, and people like me. I am very happy about that. But his awnswer is one that answer nothing.

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[forgeforsaken]

I like how the sister forum, BrokenForum, theres a "no talking about the end" spoiler thread. I don't want another me3 thread. I feel somewhat sad the discussion about the end is a shadow that big, and has hidden possible comments about other parts of the game. Some of the comments about the end are interesting (there are a few very good post in this thread), but there are a lot of comments that add nothing interesting. Also, a lot of good intentioned people just repeat things that other good intentioned people have already said.

There's one here too, that's what the cool or emotional moments thread is.

[Tom McNamara]

Based on the good doctor's response, it sounds like Bioware is still determined to downplay the volume of displeasure, ask for feedback, and assert that they're listening. So they haven't really been pressed out of the first stage of PR disaster management. Note how no comments are allowed on that page, despite his response ending with ""Thank you for your feedback -- we are listening." The new twist is implying that decisions cannot be wrong if you declare them as art. In which case, expectations for what he's hinting at come April can stay fairly low.

[Kevin Grey]

Based on the good doctor's response, it sounds like Bioware is still determined to downplay the volume of displeasure, ask for feedback, and assert that they're listening. So they haven't really been pressed out of the first stage of PR disaster management. The new twist is implying that decisions cannot be wrong if you declare them as art. In which case, expectations for what he's hinting at come April can stay fairly low.

Also, that large "Comments are closed" notice at the bottom of his response, which just ended with "Thank you for your feedback – we are listening," is fairly ironic.

I think the quickest, cheapest, and easiest thing for them to do is just get some epilogue information out there- maybe in the form of motion comics and maybe some additional codex updates. Just some stuff that clarifies that state of the galaxy at the end and follows up with what happens to the surviving characters. And all that stuff will be free and likely non-interactive.


Considering how much they seem to be in damage control mode from a PR standpoint, I don't think they will dare put out any DLC mission content that costs money that is designed to clarify the ending.

[DarthMasta]

Seems to me they could just add something like this.

[Quitch]

Won't fix the total lack of internal consistency, the fact that two of the three choices are things you've been actively fighting to prevent, etc.

EDIT: Okay, it's intended as tongue in cheek, I rather enjoyed it :)

EDIT2: Okay, the James Vega one was great :)

[DennyA]

Oh, that video is just hilarious. (And I was one of the ones who was fine with the ending.)

[Shimarenda]

The new twist is implying that decisions cannot be wrong if you declare them as art.

If they are making art for art's sake instead of art for their audience, one wonders why they expect the audience to be fine with it or even buy it. In addition, if the ending contravenes what came before it, it makes it badly done art.

[Ryan Markel]

I'm just astounded that statement was posted today. This is getting curiouser and curiouser.

It doesn't contain an apology of any kind, nor should it.

I don't think much is changing; I wouldn't be surprised if the content that we hear about in April is just something that has been planned all along and this is really just a statement that is intended to try and make the discussion more rational.

There's still inexplicable sniping regarding the situation coming from some game journos on Twitter. I wish I knew what that was all about.