20 years from now, how do you think people will think of Adele?

[Scuzz]

Hey--old and "technologically impaired" do not always go together...I'll admit to more years than I'd like to (68), but I like to think of myself as in the technological loop. And I even own an iPad 2. :)

Heh heh...your old. :)

I'm only 56.

I feel better know.

[corsair]

But respect for the Grammys is on the artistic integrity axis, not the "who is or isn't a notable/famous" person axis.

Yes - I knew that. I did phrase it in such a manner that it was obvious it was an additional point rather than a directly related point.

You can dislike Grammy winners or be contemptuous of Grammy winners or find Grammy winners uninteresting musically, but in terms of "Who the hell is so and so", it's hard to call Grammy-winning type artists obscure.

I suppose it is a good thing I didn't say she was obscure, which will thankfully take the wind out of any who would make a chain of assumptions based on such.

I feel like, at this point, if you really don't know who Adele is, you're going out of your way not to pay attention to the world around you.

Perhaps. Or maybe she isn't a household name such as you assume she is.

This just gets back to my general irritation with people who seem proud of being ignorant of popular culture, which is not the same as being uncritical of popular culture or being required to love popular culture.

Considering that you are basing this diatribe on a false assumption, that would seem to be your own problem.

"I don't like Justin Bieber" is a perfectly reasonable stance. "I don't know who Justin Beiber is" just makes people come off like jaded hipster assholes. As I said before, the whole "I don't even own a TV." type.

I presume the opposite - because I don't know who Adele is, I am unhip. Though you do come off as a jaded hipster asshole who is having a hissy-fit because I am not as hip as you.

I think this especially annoying in the case of Adele, since one of the main knocks against mainstream pop is that the people are chosen for looks or dancing ability over any actual ability to sing, and then run around in weird costumes or laser light shows or CGI videos or whatever and a ton of autotune.

Oh wait - is she the woman who came out of nowhere in Britain, famous for her voice but not her looks? If so, yes, I kinda know who she is, but without any name recognition, nor have I heard a single song of hers.

Whereas Adele is a chubby woman who doesn't dance around, doesn't use autotune, doesn't wear art projects for clothing, and doesn't go nuts with melisma. She just stands there and sings, well. She's everything people claim they want/miss in good quality pop music, and any mainstream success she gets should be seen as a good sign.

I'm sure it is. Good for her. But why I have to know who she is or I'm an asshole and an arrogant hipster, I'll never know. I think the problem is yours, not mine.

[Omniscia]

How can we ever discuss the Grammy Awards without bringing this up?

[Hugin]

Yes - I knew that. I did phrase it in such a manner that it was obvious it was an additional point rather than a directly related point.

So long as you maintain a "who the hell is Adele" stance, my point stands. "Respect" for the Grammys is irrelevant.

I suppose it is a good thing I didn't say she was obscure, which will thankfully take the wind out of any who would make a chain of assumptions based on such.

Perhaps. Or maybe she isn't a household name such as you assume she is.

Make up your mind, is she obscure or isn't she?

I presume the opposite - because I don't know who Adele is, I am unhip. Though you do come off as a jaded hipster asshole who is having a hissy-fit because I am not as hip as you.

Again, make up your mind. Is she a bland, boringly mainstream Grammy artist or is she some hipster obscurity? And it's not about Adele, or any music artist. It's just people in general who are defiant in their ignorance of stuff, as if taking a moment to learn about something, even something in pop culture, or sports, or anything is so beneath them, such a waste of their valuable time.

Oh wait - is she the woman who came out of nowhere in Britain, famous for her voice but not her looks? If so, yes, I kinda know who she is, but without any name recognition, nor have I heard a single song of hers.

Thank goodness you've managed to avoid the burden of hearing one of her songs.

[corsair]

So long as you maintain a "who the hell is Adele" stance, my point stands. "Respect" for the Grammys is irrelevant.

I noted I figured out who she is, so your point doesn't stand, but even if I didn't figure it out, your point wouldn't stand anyway because if you really don't know who the hell someone is, why is it a crime to admit it? Why you think me admitting my ignorance is a justification for you being an obnoxious dick, I have no idea, but why don't you try having a conversation rather than going into some hostile fan-boy act?

Make up your mind, is she obscure or isn't she?

Not gonna admit I didn't say such at the time accused me, are you? As to claiming I did by the second statement: no, sorry, not being a household name does not inherently imply being obscure, just not as well known as you seem to think. I also admitted that it could, indeed, be me (something I doubt your ego will allow you to do).

Again, make up your mind.

I'm still of the opinion of you that I expressed last, time, only with even more evidence justifying that opinion. I assure you, I haven't changed it.

Is she a bland, boringly mainstream Grammy artist or is she some hipster obscurity?

Dunno. Haven't listened to her music - why are you conflating two different points that I further clarified were not-connected? Here there are again:

I don't know who Adele is.

I don't like the grammys because of past decisions biased towards bland music (which explains why I didn't watch the grammys, thus not seeing her performance and therefore knowing who she is).

Note, they are two separate statements. I did not say that Adele is guilty of the one (being bland).

And it's not about Adele, or any music artist. It's just people in general who are defiant in their ignorance of stuff, as if taking a moment to learn about something, even something in pop culture, or sports, or anything is so beneath them, such a waste of their valuable time.

You aren't taking the time to actually understand what I have written, so kindly don't lecture me about lack of effort. And honestly, I find this tedious. If all you have to say is more of the same, just assume I have contempt for it and let's move on and spare everyone else.

Thank goodness you've managed to avoid the burden of hearing one of her songs.

If only I could say the same about reading one of your messages...
;-)

[JPR]

FYI, guys, Corsair thinks you're talking about Susan Boyle.

[corsair]

FYI, guys, Corsair thinks you're talking about Susan Boyle.

Broken link, but I presume she's the one I'm referring to (and if not, who the hell is Susan Boyle), which simply returns me to: who the hell is Adele? (and for fan-boy, that does not mean who the hell does she think she is, it means I am so unhip that I have no clue as to who she is or what she has done beyond she was at the Grammys last night, which I unhipply did not watch).

[Stepsongrapes]

But is it really just about whether you watch the Grammys or follow pop music? I don't watch the Grammys either.

However, it's impossible to go the next day without seeing the major winners plastered on the front of the NY Times (or presumably any other major newspaper). You'll see it on the front of Huffington, CNN, etc.

Basically, to say "I don't know who Adele is" (which is different than saying I can't recall an Adele song or some such) requires that one be a bit isolated from major news outlets.

Finally, all of the above is separate from what motivates an individual to expressly post in a thread that they don't know who the individual is. That's the part that sings overt hipster affectation to me.

[JPR]

When the subject of the thread is "what is this person's legacy likely to be", it's not totally unreasonable to chime in to say that you don't know who she is.

[Stepsongrapes]

When the subject of the thread is "what is this person's legacy likely to be", it's not totally unreasonable to chime in to say that you don't know who she is.

It's only reasonable if you feel obligated to post in every thread.

If I didn't know who someone is, the topic of whether they will maintain their nonexistence to me is not of much concern.

[corsair]

But is it really just about whether you watch the Grammys or follow pop music? I don't watch the Grammys either.

I don't follow pop music. I don't watch American Idol, for instance. I like Classical, blues, rock, but not pop. But I'm certain there are major blues bands that I am totally clueless about.

However, it's impossible to go the next day without seeing the major winners plastered on the front of the NY Times (or presumably any other major newspaper). You'll see it on the front of Huffington, CNN, etc.

How in the world am I going to answer the question posed in the thread title if I have no idea of what her music is like, or what songs she has done, or really anything about her beyond she was in a headline in the Los Angeles Times in an article I didn't read because I don't care all that much about the Grammys. So yeah, it does come back to that.

Basically, to say "I don't know who Adele is" (which is different than saying I can't recall an Adele song or some such) requires that one be a bit isolated from major news outlets.

I think you are working far too hard to define what I said in a narrow fashion I didn't mean. I understand that if Adele is connected with winning a grammy (the day after it happened) that she is a musician/singer of some sort, but I still don't really know who the hell she is.

Finally, all of the above is separate from what motivates an individual to expressly post in a thread that they don't know who the individual is. That's the part that sings overt hipster affectation to me.

Originally Posted by Blips
You're missing a pole option: "who the hell is Adele?"

So forgive me to responding to something already mentioned in the thread. It does explain a lot about your overt hipster affectation though ("You don't know Adele's career and songs? You must be a liar and are simply affecting to not know as a sneer).

I wasn't sneering, I was simply admitting I didn't know a thing about her (beyond obviously, that she just got a Grammy). What part of that is so difficult to accept?

And no, as I explained to Hugin, I'm not really interested in some ego contest with someone who can't admit that they went barking up the wrong tree.

[Derek French]

Not a good singing voice. Imagine that song done by someone who can sing...

What. The. Fuck?

[HeavenlyInsane]

I used to like Adele but then she won a Grammy and now I don't even own a TV.

[Hugin]

How in the world am I going to answer the question posed in the thread title if I have no idea of what her music is like, or what songs she has done, or really anything about her beyond she was in a headline in the Los Angeles Times in an article I didn't read because I don't care all that much about the Grammys. So yeah, it does come back to that.

You...dont? If you're completely ignorant of the subject of the thread, why would you even bother to post in it? It's as if someone made a thread in Games going "Which is better, Mass Effect 1 or KOTOR 1?", and someone replied "I've never played either." Okay, what does that contribute? At least in the case of Adele you can take 2 minutes, listen to one of her songs on youtube, and come back and go "Meh." or "Seems decent" or whatever.

I think you are working far too hard to define what I said in a narrow fashion I didn't mean. I understand that if Adele is connected with winning a grammy (the day after it happened) that she is a musician/singer of some sort, but I still don't really know who the hell she is.

So go "Jeez, her name seems to be popping up all over the place lately, but I'm not sure I've even heard one of her songs. What's her best one, or the big hit she's famous for? What makes her different from any old Britney/Xtina/Gaga type?" There's the beginning of an actual conversation.

Also, I'm not an Adele fanboy. I own one of her singles and neither of her albums. I think she's talented, but it's not about Adele per se. We could be having the same conversation about people who go out of their way to make it clear how ignorant of sports they are, or all the TV shows they don't watch.

[HeavenlyInsane]

I first heard of Justin Bieber when he was in Australia and there was a news story about teen girls going crazy. Not knowing what the big deal was but knowing how to use Google I did a search and found out what the big deal was thanks to the magic of wikipedia. What I didn't do was go into an internet thread about Justin Bieber to let folks know I don't even who Justin Bieber is, because frankly I'm annoying enough as it is.

[Omniscia]

What the hell is Australia?

Some kind of night club?

[HeavenlyInsane]

Australia is in the future, which is why you haven't heard of it. We get to enjoy today before it becomes mainstream.

[John Many Jars]

If you don't watch every single episode of American Idol and every single one of its ripoffs, if you don't read very single issue of People magazine, if your favorite song isn't "My Humps," if you don't know the bio of every actor on Glee, if you don't think Stephen King is the greatest novelist of all time, if you know anything that Howard Stern doesn't know, if you match your socks to either your trousers or your shoes, if you know how fuckin' magnets work, you are an elitist snob and belong in the line for the guillotine.

[Scuzz]

Basically, to say "I don't know who Adele is" (which is different than saying I can't recall an Adele song or some such) requires that one be a bit isolated from major news outlets.

If you don't care about the Grammy's why would you read news about them in a "major news outlet". If you don't listen to a radio station that plays her music how would you be acquainted with her music? If you don't have teenage kids or friends who listen to her who would you know that would talk about her.

Music seems to have the flavor of the month, year etc. If you are not into that genre how can anyone possibly keep up with them?

[Scuzz]

If you don't watch every single episode of American Idol and every single one of its ripoffs, if you don't read very single issue of People magazine, if your favorite song isn't "My Humps," if you don't know the bio of every actor on Glee, if you don't think Stephen King is the greatest novelist of all time, if you know anything that Howard Stern doesn't know, if you match your socks to either your trousers or your shoes, if you know how fuckin' magnets work, you are an elitist snob and belong in the line for the guillotine.

Shit, I am in trouble then. :)

[Hugin]

If you don't care about the Grammy's why would you read news about them in a "major news outlet". If you don't listen to a radio station that plays her music how would you be acquainted with her music? If you don't have teenage kids or friends who listen to her who would you know that would talk about her.

Music seems to have the flavor of the month, year etc. If you are not into that genre how can anyone possibly keep up with them?

But this is just the same old circular argument. "If I refuse to pay any attention to popular culture, how can I possibly know anything about popular culture?"

[Scuzz]

But this is just the same old circular argument. "If I refuse to pay any attention to popular culture, how can I possibly know anything about popular culture?"

It's not a refusal it's a statement of priorities, or perhaps of differences. Like I said earlier, I invest all my time in sports. That part of the modern culture keeps me going. Modern music is of no interest to me as I am stuck in the past with (from time to time) certain breakthroughs, but they are in a different genre than Adele.

"Popular Culture" to me doesn't designate bad or good. As I said before I can't name 90% of the people in movies now either. I haven't seen a single movie on the Oscar's nomination list.

I am a dull boy. :)

[Stepsongrapes]

Music seems to have the flavor of the month, year etc. If you are not into that genre how can anyone possibly keep up with them?

Obscure genres don't make it on the front of major papers. "Popular" music, is pretty much by definition, what shows up on the front of major newspapers.

But again, there's no requirement to keep up with pop to avoid being a snob. It's not the lack of knowledge, alone, that is snobby. The snobbery (or at least the appearance of snobbery) comes from choosing to post in a thread on a topic that you don't keep up with and providing a contribution that amounts to nothing more than asserting that you don't know or care about the topic. Literally, one can learn at least a basic amount about the topic in the time it takes to post "who's that?" if one were driven enough to put in the calories to make the post in the first place.

As with HeavenlyInsane, I refrain from posting in threads that I have no interest, or knowledge, about. Moreover, the appearance of snobbery is particularly and uniquely enhanced when the topic is one that may be viewed as being pedestrian or designed for mass consumption.

[JPR]

Again, if the question is "what are people going to say about Adele in 20 years", it is relevant that right now there are people that say, "Who?" ...

[Scuzz]

Again, if the question is "what are people going to say about Adele in 20 years", it is relevant that right now there are people that say, "Who?" ...

Exactly. And I did say I knew who she was, I just didn't know her music.

You don't think it is elitist to believe that the music "flavor of the month" should be known by everyone or "they " have problems.

[Stepsongrapes]

Exactly. And I did say I knew who she was, I just didn't know her music.

I wasn't meaning you in particular. Your posts in this thread are clearly substantive (e.g., "her music, while she has a nice voice, isn't anything that much different to me").

It's the Corsair type post of "who the hell is Adele" that are the equivalent of "yawn, why should I care?" The obvious answer being, you don't need to care, but if so, why did you bother posting?

[Hugin]

Again, if the question is "what are people going to say about Adele in 20 years", it is relevant that right now there are people that say, "Who?" ...

But why? Someone in this thread mentioned they didn't know who Karl Lagerfeld was. Now, Lagerfeld is the fashion equivalent of a Hall of Famer, and he's been in the business for over 50 years. Someone not knowing Lagerfeld is not a terrible crime, but it's also not very relevant to his importance/legacy, any more than the people who insist on not knowing anything about sports if they say "Blake Griffin who?", if the discussion is how is his career going to wind up.

"Well, I've never heard of the guy, so I'm gonna assume he's pretty weaksauce, AMIRITE?"


What they're going to say about Adele in 20 years will be "Blah blah (Success, failure, ruler of the world, whatever), oh and also over in the corner, here are some random people who have no idea who she is." How enlightening and relevant!

Do you see what I'm saying? People are being asked to make a prediction. "Who is Adele?" is not a prediction, unless the implication is "I predict she'll be a nobody, because I don't know who she is right now.", which then means "If I don't know someone, they aren't important/worth discussion/aren't impacting their fields.", which is of course idiotic.

[corsair]

Again, if the question is "what are people going to say about Adele in 20 years", it is relevant that right now there are people that say, "Who?" ...

Of course it is, but some don't get that. Nor do they get that that kind of comment happens on lots and lots of threads on QT3, with varying degrees of relevance.

[CLWheeljack]

I'd say that a baseline level of pop-culture knowledge includes pop singers, but doesn't include fashion designers. You would expect a hall of fame level pop singer to permeate the zeitgeist to an extent you wouldn't expect of some other professions. I don't think it's out of line to expect exposure into general pop culture as a metric of success for that particular industry.

For instance, I'd expect somebody with a cursory knowledge of pop culture to know who Justin Bieber is, even if they don't follow music. He was in a Super Bowl commercial, for god's sake.

Obviously there's still room in the irrelevant corner for people who don't have that cursory level of familiarity. If somebody followed up "Adele who?" with "Lady Gaga who?", the problem is clearly with them, not with Adele's level of exposure.

Iiiiiin any case, trying to answer the OP, the Norah Jones analogy seems apt. Some very good work, but nothing she's done has struck me as timeless hall of fame stuff yet, although I wouldn't say it's out of the question. Then again, I'm a poor judge of female singers.

[Hugin]

I'd say that a baseline level of pop-culture knowledge includes pop singers, but doesn't include fashion designers. You would expect a hall of fame level pop singer to permeate the zeitgeist to an extent you wouldn't expect of some other professions. I don't think it's out of line to expect exposure into general pop culture as a metric of success for that particular industry.

For instance, I'd expect somebody with a cursory knowledge of pop culture to know who Justin Bieber is, even if they don't follow music. He was in a Super Bowl commercial, for god's sake.

Obviously there's still room in the irrelevant corner for people who don't have that cursory level of familiarity. If somebody followed up "Adele who?" with "Lady Gaga who?", the problem is clearly with them, not with Adele's level of exposure.

Iiiiiin any case, trying to answer the OP, the Norah Jones analogy seems apt. Some very good work, but nothing she's done has struck me as timeless hall of fame stuff yet, although I wouldn't say it's out of the question. Then again, I'm a poor judge of female singers.

Right. Like I said, not knowing who Karl Lagerfeld is no great crime. But it also doesn't say much about his legacy within the fashion community, where he's very big. For example, from a pop culture perspective, I do think it's reasonable to have heard of Chanel, and he's head designer there.