Reply With QuoteWell, the Skins had Rex Grossman and John Beck last year, so it could be worse?Originally Posted by sluggo
At least Garrard and Smith are worthy of being in the NFL...
It just gets better and better for Miami. First Alex Smith, who I couldn't want less to do with, and now David Garrard will reportedly visit them Monday.
Who's next? Will AJ Feeley get an invite? Why does Ireland still have a job?
Well, the Skins had Rex Grossman and John Beck last year, so it could be worse?
At least Garrard and Smith are worthy of being in the NFL...
Flynn to Seattle is a fairly low risk move for the Seahawks and only $10m of the contract is guaranteed. So they have a couple of years to see if he is as good as he looked in those limited Packer appearances and they can walk away if he isn't. TJackson is still under contract for another year at $4m plus they have undrafted Josh Portis they've been developing. And they can see who falls where in the draft.
Miami is now not in a great spot, but on the other hand you have to figure they are going to be looking in the draft at this point anyway. Moore is a decent enough starter while someone else is developed, or they can even bring in Smith to hold things down for a few years if the new coaching staff doesn't like Moore.
The team that is now playing with fire is the 49ers. If Smith signs elsewhere and Manning does as well, where does that leave them? Best case scenario would probably be Hasselbeck if Manning goes to the Titans and pushes him out. Worst case scenario is that Peyton goes to Denver, which doesn't free anyone else up.
Who knows? Harbaugh may think Kapernak (sic) is as capable as Smith. The Niners may not want to give Smith the kind of money Smith expects.
More likely it's that they can't afford both Smith and Peyton. Until Peyton makes up his mind, they cannot sign Smith.
I wouldn't have a problem with Kapernick. Unless he is absolutely horrible, he can't be any worst than Alex Smith and has loads of potential. I wouldn't have a problem with Kap, Tolizen and Hasslebeck or Josh Johnson competing for the starter job during training camp.
Mike Holmgren in Cleveland has gotten some criticism for "whining" on a conference call with ticket holders that the reason the Redskins got the deal with the Rams to move up to #2 was because of the relationship between certain high level folks on the two teams. According to Florio at PFT, Holmgren may have a point, depending on how you look at it.
The Rams asked both teams for their "best offer." The Redskins offered what we know ended up working - first rounders for the next three years plus a 2nd round pick this year. So what did the Browns offer? Both their number ones this year plus their number one pick next year. The Redskins deal is better, though not by much.
But the Browns apparently upped their offer later with another 2nd rounder, from this year. In that package, the Browns offer is clearly superior because it would have meant the Rams at #4 to get (after the Vikings) their pick of the rest of the top players plus two more very good picks this year. That's potentially three impact players this year.
So you can see Holmgren's frustration. The only way to justify the Rams decision to go with Washington is to argue that was the honorable decision given the Redskins had the better initial "best offer." I would have thought the Rams would have preferred milking both teams for the best deal.
All that's left for Miami to do at this point is to trade away their next three drafts to get Tannehill (who I'm not interested in, fwiw), only to see some other team take him first.
It depends on how important it is to maintain the logic behind a "silent auction." Normally, auctions arrive at the highest bid by letting anyone bid as many times as they want until no one but the highest bidder remains. Its a way for the seller to know he got the highest price...
Except, what if the highest bidder would have been happy to pay much more than the eventual winning bid? However, since there was no one else there to drive up his price, the seller is "missing out" on the difference. One way to try to tap into that potential surplus is limit each bidder to a single bid, without knowing what any of the other bidders are planning. Then, the bidder has one shot to get it right. If he really wants the item up for auction, then he will more likely bid closer to his ceiling.
However, this maneuveur depends entirely on bidder only getting that one bid. If bidder thinks the auction will disolve into a traditional auction once the initial silent bids are in, then there is an incentive to offer a lower bid, and if necessary raise it to beat their opponent. If a bidders lower bid wins outright, the seller once again is missing out on what the winning bidder might have been willing to pay unless their was competition to drive up the bid.
Obviously, there is some game theory involved and this isn't a guaranteed way to for a seller to get a higher bid at auction. Furthermore, St. Louis could have insisted that they were doing a one bid game and "changed their minds" after the initial bids. That kind of stinks though, and now if St. Louis ever decides to hold another one of these, there bidders are more likely to high ball from the start.
That being stated, I'm kind of glad the Browns lost. I kind of get the feeling the Browns FO are trying to pull a Cam Newton, grabbing the incredibly gifted quarterback to try to rack up some wins and keep their jobs. I don't think that is playing the long game, though. While seeing the Browns go 8-8 next season after 4-12 this season would be nice, draft picks smartly used are how a team goes to 12-4 and clinch home field advantage in the playoffs.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Redskins way overpaid for what they are likely to get even if RGIII turns out to be good. Unless he turns out to be a HOF caliber QB they will have paid too much in my mind. So in that sense the Browns would have been overpaying as well. I much prefer what Seattle has done in the Carrol/Schneider era, which is wait to see what falls to you, never overpaying, and looking for bargains. If the Seahawks step up to a playoff team in the next year or two, anyway.
That said, I do see why Holmgren would be frustrated by the outcome in this particular case.
Apparently, Les Snead of the Rams told the Skins and Browns to give him their "best and final offer." The offers were similar (3 1sts), but the Redskins offer included a 2nd round pick as well. The Rams accepted the Skins offer, and informed the Browns. At that point, the Browns said they'd then add in a 2nd rounder to their original best offer. Holmgren is now complaining they didn't accept this revised offer...made after the Rams had already agreed to trade the pick to the Skins. Kudos to Snead for not reneging on the handshake deal with the Skins at that point.
That's not what best and final offer means. It wasn't the relationship that made the Redskins win the bid; it was a better offer when requested to make their "best and final" offer.
I'd have sympathy for Holmgren if his original best offer wasn't taken because of a relationship issue, but that's not the case here. He just got outbid, plain and simple.
Yeah, what Eightball said. Snead of the Rams told them to make one offer and there wouldn't be a bidding process. The Rams didn't want to drag it out because they wanted it done before free agency started and Manning and Flynn were in play. There was always the chance that Cleveland would go after Flynn and Manning might sign with the Redskins.
If Holmgren had tossed in the 2nd round pick in the initial offer I'm sure the Rams would have taken it. He didn't, so they took the Redskins offer. Holmgren is just engaging in some CYA with the season ticket holders.
As it stands, the winner and losers will be determined by how well the players who are drafted perform. Maybe RG3 is a HOFer or maybe he's just average. Maybe the Rams draft four starters with their picks or maybe they go bust with each pick. Maybe Cleveland drafts for offense this year with the picks they would have traded and Colt McCoy has a breakout year.
Denver wins the Manning sweepstakes. I hear screams of anguish from Knoxville, Nashville and Chattanooga. I hear laughter from Memphis.
And Denver wants to trade Tebow. Will Jacksonville step up?
Oh, please, please, please sign with Miami, Alex Smith. Fuck Harbaugh! Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Well, if nothing else, this makes the AFC West interesting instead of just pathetic. Unlike the last few years.
From my perspective, I'm happy because this probably means the 49ers re-sign Smith, and I don't have to watch him flop in Miami.
My new worry is whether the Dolphins might have any interest in Tebow. Please god, no.
If not Jacksonville who will have interest in Tebow? I enjoyed watching him play but he's challenged as a passer. (He does seem to throw a nice deep ball.)
Everyone seems to be assuming Manning can actually play again. I remain unconvinced. What I think will happen is Tebow will start the season. The plan will be to work Manning in along the way so by the time the playoffs roll around Manning can step in and lead them to glory.
In reality I think every week it'll be "No, Manning isn't starting this week", then about ten weeks in or so the team will realize Manning isn't going to play at all and the wheels will come off and the Broncos miss the playoffs. The season ends with Tebow ready to smite someone, the fans angry, and Manning sheepishly retiring.
No word on Alex Smith at all.
I think Tebow to the Jags is unlikely. They still have Gabbert and just signed Henne. They've pretty much moved on, and even if their new owner forced them to trade for Tebow then they are stuck with a bunch of wasted cap space. And he hardly fits in Miami and that Packer offense. But who knows.
He's passed physicals for every team and all the teams saw him throw. Why do you think he won't be able to play?
Peter King was just on locally in Seattle to talk about the Flynn deal, and he said that while things look good for Peyton he still hasn't fully recovered and there is still a risk he won't. So while the odds are better for him, he's not out of the woods yet. The Broncos need some sort of backup plan just in case, ideally someone who could play this year if they had to but is ok sitting for a few years as well.
King thinks the Broncos should keep Tebow unless they get a third round or better offer. Tebow could be a pretty good slash player, running some routes, occasionally carrying the ball, etc. It's not like he's costing them some huge amount of money under his current contract.
A little torn, as I do hope Peyton can contribute, just not in the Raiders division ;). But I certainly want the Broncos to keep Tebow or at least trade him to KC.
I think there's zero chance of this happening. If they're paying him, they think he can play. Unless Peyton suffers some sort of new, additional injury, he's going to be their starting QB when the season opens.
I'd also be surprised if they didn't trade Tebow off. They're going to tailor a new offensive scheme around Peyton, and they'll want a more traditional qb to back him up. Tebow's trade value might never be higher than right now, so I'd expect him to get dealt before the draft.
I wonder if Jacksonville would trade Gabbert straight up for Tebow? Then the Broncos get a young backup who has a few years to learn under Manning and the Jags get a big boost to ticket sales, and still have Henne as a backup.
I don't know if Seattle had any plans involving bringing back recently cut Robert Gallery, but that won't happen as he's signed with the Patriots, surprisingly.
I hope Henne does well in Jacksonville. I watched many of the remaining Dolphins games with him and he was pretty resigned to his fate. One of the nicest athletes I've met.
(My son is actually a Giants fan, but I couldn't let him wear his Manning jersey in the Dolphins' box!)
A couple of reasons which I admit might not mean much:
1. Indy just let him go, no attempt at a trade or anything. If it looked like he had value(ie a chance to play again), why wouldn't they try to get something for him? Sure he had that 28mill due, but for a playing Peyton Manning you mean some team out there wouldn't spring for it?
2. Arizona went with Kolb after all, paid him his roster bonus. Once again, if it really looked like Manning was going to play, would they have dropped out like that? After the success they had with Warner, another reclaimed vet?
Personally, I think this chase for Manning is just a couple of teams taking a gamble. The team that 'wins' Manning gets to be the NFL focal point for the year, with a higher profile, extra tv coverage and merchandise sales, etc. Until Manning washes out(if he does), the owner of that team gets bragging rights of grabbing the all time greatest free agent signing. And finally, if he does play then the owner looks like a genius. And I bet the contract will be heavy on performance clauses, so it's not much to risk in a way, besides disgruntling your current QB.
I don't think you've been following this very closely.
It wasn't just a $28m roster bonus, it was a committment to the multi-year deal Manning signed last year. Nobody would have given the Colts anything for that given Manning's unknown health status. And given the Colts situation, even if Manning had only missed last year because of a lesser injury they would still have had to consider taking advantage of the contractual out they had and moving on given the overall state of the team and their cap situation. Especially with the number one pick.
Arizona was told Manning had ruled them out before they paid Kolb. They didn't drop out; Manning told them they were not a finalist.2. Arizona went with Kolb after all, paid him his roster bonus. Once again, if it really looked like Manning was going to play, would they have dropped out like that? After the success they had with Warner, another reclaimed vet?
There is still a doubt about Manning, but the teams that went after him all had sketchy QB situations anyway or an owner that overruled his football people. For those teams its a risk worth taking because if Manning comes back entirely or mostly healthy, they have a much better chance at winning it all, a chance they would not have had standing pat.
What's weird is that I read that Gallery was at the dinner with Matt Flynn when he flew in to visit Seattle. Seems odd that you wine and dine your big free agent hope at QB with a guy who's on the way out the door.
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