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Thread: The future of Quarter to Three's message board

  1. #1
    Administrator World's End Supernova
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    The future of Quarter to Three's message board

    What has happened in the past

    Except for the last three months, this forum has always been moderated. Moderation has included variously vetting accounts, talking to people privately, sometimes intervening publicly, sometimes closing accounts, and so forth. The methodology has varied, but the goal has always been the same: to encourage a certain kind of interaction.

    So a few months ago, after lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth -- from me and others on the forum -- concerning accounts being banned in full view, or behind the scenes, or some combination of the two, I somehow figured maybe I could just ask people to leave. Imagine standing in your living room, and asking someone, "Hey, I think you're out of line and this is my house. Would you please go away?" Now imagine that person replying, "No. You're going to have to throw me out." What kind of house was that?

    So I closed my own account, and opened everyone else's account, and decided to abandon the whole idea of this being my house for a while. It would be the house of anyone who wanted to come into it. It would belong equally to the guys who've been here all along, to the guy who refused to leave, to the guys who had been thrown out earlier, and to whichever new guys just strolled in.

    That was Qt3's forum for the last three months. As the admin, I still saw all the reported posts, some valid, some specious. But beyond deleting spam, I let things run their course. Mostly, everything was pleasant. But the things that weren't pleasant were extremely unpleasant. Things happened that I don't want happening on my site. And I'm convinced those things will continue to happen. So I had to make a choice, which brings us to what is happening today.

    What is happening today

    Quarter to Three is once again a moderated forum. New accounts will be vetted. The rules for participating are posted here. Unfortunately, several accounts have been closed. The following message was sent to Abilio Carvalho, Adree, Blackadar, BobJustBob, Brandon Clements, Charles, Cubit, Damien Neil, Frank Austin, Hans Lauring, James Johnson, Kalle, Matthew Gallant, quatoria, Raife, Sebmojo, Therlun*, and ZekeDMS.

    Apologies for the impersonal nature of this message, but I've attempted to work directly with almost every one of you. It hasn't ended well. I consider that my failing as much as yours and I wish it could have turned out differently. Since you're one of the folks who is unhappy enough with how I've run the forum, I'm going to save you the gesture of quitting. I think you'll agree that we have what could be called irreconcilable differences. Therefore, it's best we go our separate ways. As of today, you won't have posting privileges. You have a week to send out PMs if you want to grouse, commiserate, or just let folks know how to reach you. Your account will be completely closed a week from today. I wish you the best.
    I have also PMed several other posters, and the contents of those PMs are between me and the person in question. My hope in each instance is that the person I've PMed will stay. But I expect that there will be other accounts closed, mostly by mutual agreement. We're probably going to lose at least 20 and maybe as many as 50 frequent posters. I'm not happy about that because I know many of these people are good people, and I even like some of them. Almost all of them can make valuable contributions to the forum. But there's a point where irreconcilable differences are, well, irreconcilable. If you're interested in staying in touch with any of the people Quarter to Three has lost -- and I encourage you to do so -- you can find many of them at this forum.

    Why this is happening

    Here is something I've never articulated because I thought, perhaps naively, it was understood:

    The priority for participating on this forum is not the quality of the content. I ultimately don't care how smart or funny or observant you are. Those are plusses, but they're never prerequisites. The priority is on how you treat each other. I expect spats, arguments, occasional insults, and even inevitable grudges. We've all done that. But in the end, I expect you to act like a group of friends who care about each other, no matter how dumb some of us might be, no matter what political opinions some of us hold, no matter what games some of us like or dislike. This community is small enough, intimate enough, that I feel it's a reasonable expectation.

    Furthermore, if you're unhappy with how I run the forum, there are plenty of other communities available to you. You have no right to be here. You furthermore have no right to use this forum to frequently air your disagreements. If you can't get along with everyone -- and that includes getting along with me -- then you're not welcome here. And there is therefore no reason you can't go to Facebook, IRC, Google Plus, Neogaf, or some other place. Those are all fine places, and many of them will offer what you want. But here, on the Quarter to Three forum, you get the community I want. Not the community you want. You can do that somewhere else.

    What's going to happen after today

    * We are going back to the old rules about the forum being safe for browsing in the same room as your daughter, grandmother, or coworkers. You might not mind hawt gifs of bouncing breasts, but please be considerate of other people's browsing habits.

    * I will not tolerate compromising someone else's anonymity. Many of us are open about who we are with each other. But everyone else is welcome to be as anonymous as they like, and I will not have their real identities (photographs, real names, job histories, etc.) used against them.

    * Multiple accounts are no longer allowed. If you're using multiple accounts, let me know now so we can settle on which account you'd like to keep. If you have a good reason for needing multiple accounts, I'll happily work with you. Otherwise, anyone caught using alts will have all of his or her accounts closed.

    * I hate the spoiler tags and how they affect the flow of conversations. But I'm in the minority, so they're here to stay.

    * As much as I'm loathe to do this -- it just seems so silly -- I'm implementing an infraction system. See the updated rules post for more information about how this will work.

    I hope we'll eventually go back to the policy of each banning being a mostly private matter between me and the closed account. But for the time being, I'll try to keep everything above-board and transparent, so long as it doesn't violate anyone's privacy. This thread is the place to discuss forum moderation stuff, past, present, and future. I'll try to answer any questions, address any concerns, and so forth. Some of you might be tempted to jump in here with Hurt Locker hur hur hur, tapir this, cunt that, how dare you condone child abuse, here's a picture of a skateboarder wiping out that represents you, etc. Spare me. I can tell the folks who want to have a discussion from the folks who want to heckle or cajole. This thread, although I expect it will get messy, is for the former. So yenta away and I'll try to keep pace with you. If you'd rather contact me directly, send me a PM or email me at [email protected].

    I expect some of you will want to leave, and I respect that. But I mostly hope you'll stay. This is going to be tough for a few weeks, but I'm convinced it's necessary. 2012 could be very interesting for Quarter to Three for reasons that I can't talk about yet. And as things change on the front page, I want this forum to continue to be a certain kind of place. This is a place for you. You should feel welcome, safe, and like a full participant. I intend to do everything I can to make that happen for the greatest number of you.

    -Tom

    * account reactivated
    Last edited by Tom Chick; 01-05-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Hustle
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    Welcome back?

  3. #3
    World's End Supernova
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chick View Post
    * We are going back to the old rules about the forum being safe for browsing in the same room as your daughter, grandmother, or coworkers. You might not mind hawt gifs of bouncing breasts, but please be considerate of other people's browsing habits.
    Thank you. Seriously. I work at a pretty open company that allows some surf time, but the NSFW posts were getting out of hand.

  4. #4
    New Romantic
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    Should we infer from your resuming control over the boards that you are also returning to participate?

  5. #5
    Mad Chester
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    It all makes sense to me, with one exception - if the forum is going to change its moderation style, even if its a return to past rules, why not give people a last chance to conform? If they cross the line again, they get the chop. It seems a bit arbitrary to ban first, then moderate.

    I don't know the history of these people and their posting problems. I just saw some names there that seemed like reasonable people in the time I've been reading regularly (the past six months or so).

  6. #6
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Hatter View Post
    It all makes sense to me, with one exception - if the forum is going to change its moderation style, even if its a return to past rules, why not give people a last chance to conform? If they cross the line again, they get the chop. It seems a bit arbitrary to ban first, then moderate.

    I don't know the history of these people and their posting problems. I just saw some names there that seemed like reasonable people in the time I've been reading regularly (the past six months or so).
    I second this motion. Clean(ish) slate.

  7. #7
    New Romantic
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    I'm glad you're going to be part of the forum once again Tom. I hope 2012 is a great year for Qt3 and that we can all take advantage of a fresh start.

    My participation in the forum is mostly focused on reading and browsing at work, so I'm not the most active, but I will say that the forum, from my perspective, has gotten along pretty civilly. I'm sorry to hear that some folks were "extremely unpleasant," but I'm glad to have missed most of it. The only thing that springs to mind that fits that description is an incident where some folks were calling a female forum member variations on terms for one that takes money for sex. That was definitely beyond the pale and I look forward to never seeing that again.

  8. #8
    World's End Supernova
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    Yeah, some of those names are a suprise to me as well, though I don't follow some areas very well and generally stay out of threads I have no interest in. I guess we have to give the benefit of the doubt that those people have been given multiple opportunities to reform in the past.

    Its going to be different, for sure.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bowyer View Post
    I second this motion. Clean(ish) slate.
    Definitely thirded, it seems appropriate to at least offer a probationary period first.

  10. #10
    World's End Supernova
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    I can't speak for the whole list (nor would it make a difference if I could, because I cannot know the PMs and such) but many of those on the list have been very vocal (or the writing equivalent) about Tom and his policies, despite repeated warnings against such behavior. I can almost guarantee that they would be continuing this course in this thread if they were not banned.

    I agree that from my perspective many of the people on that list are good posters who have been respectful in my experience. I'm just noting why Tom might (rightly) feel that there is no need to give a clean slate to them. It would not be a second chance. In many cases, it would be a fifth or sixth chance.

    Note that this does not mean I agree with the bannings (or disagree). I'm just trying to explain them a bit, especially since Tom dislikes doing so.

    Oh, and welcome back!

  11. #11
    Spinning Toe
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    Yeah, I think there should be some sort of amnesty in light of what happened the past few months.

  12. #12
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    Granted, there have been a lot of disputes. I just think it'd be nice to at least make the attempt. Why start the new regime with an unnecessary tide of blood when we could have flowers, right?

  13. #13
    New Romantic
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    I was saddened to see Cubit's name on the list after reading these posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubit View Post
    I guess I'll start 2012 off with a positive online dating story. Early in 2011 I came out of a bad five year marriage that was the result of being young and Christian. ugh. By June though I was ready to meet some new people. I knew from reading this thread that OkCupid was one of the better sites, so I signed up and messaged a few high matches including one that really caught my eye, but she lived an hour away so I didn't think much would come of it. I'll call her "ladyparts".

    I went on a couple one off dates that didn't go anywhere, but during this time had been exchanging countless messages and soon phone calls with ladyparts. We decided to meet near her place and had some pizza and then went to see Super 8. I think we were both a little apprehensive, but after spending time together it became clear that we connected really well.

    A quick anecdote: When I first started seeing ladyparts, my divorce wasn't quite final. I agonized over how to disclose this. On our second date, as I nervously tried to bring it up over our meal, ladyparts jokingly asked "you're not married, are you?". I was shocked and responded with "actually..." and then went on to explain the situation. My worrying was ultimately for nothing though, as she was very understanding and accepting of it all.

    Today, Ladyparts and I have been bf/gf for nearly six months, and despite the distance we've managed to see each other every weekend since we met. She has helped me repair relationships with friends and family that I neglected during my unhappy married years, and has gotten me excited to revisit some old dreams and hobbies that I had abandoned.

    No relationship is perfect and we have our rough days, but I feel as though I'm growing and developing as a person for the first time in a very long time. I hope I'm having a similar effect on her.

    Later in the spring she is moving towards better job opportunities, and we won't be living so far apart anymore.

    Here is a picture of us taken right before the holidays:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubit View Post
    That is actually her mannequin, named Kevin, and he manages to perfectly photobomb nearly every fucking photo I try to take in that apartment.

    Haha, in my defense that name is her own internet handle that she uses on a couple of different sites. It existed before I even knew her.

    Like I mentioned briefly in the post, in my late teens/early 20s I was a fundamentalist Christian. This led to an early marriage based more on religion than an actual healthy loving relationship. After a couple of years I realized how batshit I had been, and began to feel trapped in a marriage where I was now an atheist and my wife was still a devout believer. At that point I kind of shut down for a couple years in a depressed state as I tried to make a relationship work that was based on something that just didn't exist anymore.

    Eventually we talked things out and separated followed by a divorce a few months later.

    Thankfully, no kids were involved.

    Once I escaped that religion and that relationship, it felt like a huge weight was off of me. I was free to explore who I was and what I wanted out of life without that shit hovering. I feel like I'm on a positive path now, one that ladyparts encourages me greatly on. For many years I was on a negative path and very unhappy, which honestly probably affected how I acted on Qt3.
    I guess the important part is that he's turned his life around for the better, not whether or not he can post on Qt3. But maybe there is more going on behind the scenes that I don't know about.

  14. #14
    Neo Acoustic
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    Jeremy Johnson? Maybe you mean James Johnson as Jeremy is the most inoffensive person I know.

  15. #15
    New Romantic
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    Then perhaps a one chance and done thing. I don't want to speak for anyone on that list because I don't know them, but at least one member on there was posting in the last few days about the reason for his poor behavior in the past and seemed apologetic and sheepish about it. I'm hoping some conversation can get him back on.

  16. #16
    World's End Supernova
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    Wow, had no idea those folks were volatile or anything. Guess I missed those conversations. Whew! :)

  17. #17
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    I think this is a terrible move, it doesn't improve the forum in any way, and it's very telling that the handful of genuinely awful posters who screw up every thread they participate in are left untouched.

    Everyone on the banned list has had a problem with Tom, but Tom has also had a problem with them. They do not drag down this board. Tom's inability to get along with them (and in some cases, their inability to not harp on about it - not the world's biggest crime) is the issue here, not the health of the board in general.

  18. #18
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telefrog View Post
    Thank you. Seriously. I work at a pretty open company that allows some surf time, but the NSFW posts were getting out of hand.
    Really? Where? I literally cannot remember running across a single NSFW image here in the past six months.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyPoof View Post
    Jeremy Johnson? Maybe you mean James Johnson as Jeremy is the most inoffensive person I know.
    I was thinking the same thing, actually, but I may be biased since Jeremy was my Secret Santa! He's good peeps though, in my book.

    Hugin, check the example in Tom's post. (here is the link again: http://www.quartertothree.com/game-t...&postcount=205) NSFW, obviously.

    BTW, Tom, I can't see the infraction on the post. I can see why it was given one, and maybe that's what you meant by 'example' but I expected us to be able to recognize when one was given.

  20. #20
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chick View Post
    2012 could be very interesting for Quarter to Three for reasons that I can't talk about yet.
    My take: Sounds like you have an affiliation deal in the works and the habits of certain posters could put a damper on that.

  21. #21
    Spinning Toe
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM View Post
    I think this is a terrible move, it doesn't improve the forum in any way, and it's very telling that the handful of genuinely awful posters who screw up every thread they participate in are left untouched.

    Everyone on the banned list has had a problem with Tom, but Tom has also had a problem with them. They do not drag down this board. Tom's inability to get along with them (and in some cases, their inability to not harp on about it - not the world's biggest crime) is the issue here, not the health of the board in general.
    I agree. Most of the banned people are what I consider to be quality posters around here.

  22. #22
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugin View Post
    Really? Where? I literally cannot remember running across a single NSFW image here in the past six months.
    Me neither, though Tom did link to a post with a GIF that featured huge, bouncing boobies. I have to say that while I appreciate and respect the rule against posting such images in the forum, I am not displeased that I saw the GIF.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugin View Post
    Really? Where? I literally cannot remember running across a single NSFW image here in the past six months.
    I was directed to a blurred out sideboob from a magazine when this question was last asked.

    edit: I think the linked boobs were an ironic example since they were posted a couple days ago as a joke about Tom's mail.

  24. #24
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    Wow. That is really not the banned list I expected.

    In the new regime, Octonoo is okay but Hans isn't?

    I can't even begin to make sense out of that.

    I definitely agree with the growing "wait, what?" chorus.

  25. #25
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    I had no idea about Hans and Matthew, I enjoy their posts.

  26. #26
    New Romantic
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlanza View Post
    Wow. That is really not the banned list I expected.

    In the new regime, Octonoo is okay but Hans isn't?

    I can't even begin to make sense out of that.

    I definitely agree with the growing "wait, what?" chorus.
    The logic appears to be that it is OK to piss off the entire community, but pissing off Tom is asking for the banhammer.

  27. #27
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    I agree that some of the people on that list have seemed pretty reasonable to me, but I also know that I read the forum fairly selectively, so I miss a lot.

    I do agree with Tom's internet living room ideal, and frankly it's the kind of living room I want to hang out in too. What's wrong with having a corner of the Internet where manners are still important?

  28. #28
    World's End Supernova
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    Octonoo may be an alt, in which case the new rules will get rid of that account anyway.

    Perhaps we should have a special vote to free someone from crucifixion, like in Life of Brian:

    Welease Wodewick!

  29. #29
    Account closed How To Go
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    It's going to be interesting seeing which P&R posters suddenly disappear after the alt rule takes effect.

  30. #30
    Hustle
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    I do have to say that no one really on that list has ever struck me as a net-negative for the forums.

    I guess I don't really need to understand, since I'm not running the place or whatever.

    But when posters I think are neutral or positive contributors are getting kicked back out while horrific rampaging trolls like Octonoo and Brett are permitted to run wild and free, I'm confused.

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