11-15-2012, 08:22 AM
Sorry, I just don't see Torii Hunter as the answer to the Tigers' issues. I supposed if you view it as basically trading Valverde for Hunter, its a wash, but I can't see giving a guy who will be 38 $16 million. That age cliff could hit at any point.
11-15-2012, 09:29 AM
The Tigers had two awful corner outfielders and Hunter is a solid one. He's a definite upgrade over Young/Boesch/Berry/Etc. Sure, he's getting older but his defense is still good in a corner OF spot and his bat is still above average. They shouldn't expect his numbers from last year to repeat but he will be an OF upgrade. And 2/$26 isn't going to block them from addressing the bullpen.
11-15-2012, 04:02 PM
Cabrera wins AL MVP over Trout. Posey wins NL.
Very happy about Dickey winning NL Cy Young.
11-15-2012, 07:46 PM
I was looking at a breakdown of how the AL MVP vote went and I'm a bit confused about who gets to vote. The Wikipedia page says something about 2 writers per MLB city, but there were 28 votes cast for AL MVP and some of the writers were from national publications (i.e. two from ESPN), not every AL city was represented (no Baltimore, for example), and many had only one representative, while a few others had two.
11-16-2012, 01:38 AM
This chart from the BBWAA site lists all the writers and who they voted for. Tim Kurkjian is listed for ESPN and Paul White is listed for USA Today, but both are credited to Baltimore.
The part of that chart that leaves me shaking my head is how high most of the voters placed Cano, who struggled a lot of the season and whose stats were propped up by a few hot streaks. If anything, Derek Jeter and Rafael Soriano were the Yankees MVPs this year.
11-16-2012, 05:17 AM
Never looked at the vote breakdown like that before, thanks for the link, sluggo. As expected it was pretty much all Cabrera and Trout, except that one clown who put Beltre second. How on earth did Pujols get even two votes at 6th and 9th place? The man was average at best in 2012. I guess baseball writers vote on celebrity status like everyone else.
11-16-2012, 08:44 AM
The internet is statistical rage on Jeter being over rated, and I'm not trying to add to that collection, but how can you possibly say that Jeter was the Yankees MVP over Cano?
Originally Posted by sluggo
Cano hit .313/.379/.550 for an OPS+ of 149 and wRC+ of 150
Jeter hit .316/.362/.429 for an OPS+ of 114 and wRC+ of 117
If you're into the counting stats Cano leads in 2Bs, HRs, Runs, and RBIs. Neither of them steal bases.
And then defensively Cano one of the top defensive 2Bs in the game and even if you want to charitably give Jeter some credit for a bounce back year, I don't see how you could think he was more valuable than Cano in the field.
What does that leave for him to be more valuable at?
11-16-2012, 09:29 AM
Me: Cano's stats are misleading. He actually struggled a lot of the year, and his stats were inflated by a few hot streaks.
Other people: But look at how good his stats are!
11-16-2012, 11:06 AM
I feel like the writers made the right call. Trout had a great year, but it wasn't that much better that it offset the triple crown or greater Tigers relevance.
Last edited by Sarkus; 11-16-2012 at 12:06 PM.
11-16-2012, 01:13 PM
Every player has hot and cold streaks. But look at his numbers monthly:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I still don't see how you can argue that Jeter was in any way more valuable than Cano. His offensive numbers are categorically worse. His defense is worse than Cano.
If cold streaks hitting are a major factor (which I assume you're claiming) how about Jeter's June: .232/.295/.313?
11-16-2012, 01:25 PM
So I say "the numbers are misleading", and your argument is to present more numbers?
Let me know how that works out.
11-16-2012, 01:34 PM
Well, they aren't just random numbers, they are facts showing his performance for each month of the season and how they were pretty consistent despite your claims of his struggles and streaky nature.
Originally Posted by sluggo
So, basically, your point is that without a single reason Jeter was more valuable than Cano during the regular season. And simple things like getting on base more, slugging better, playing better defense, and basically universally being hailed as having a better season by both statistical and traditional analysis aren't going to get in your way of asserting it?
Awesome. I guess you didn't add your profile location ironically.
11-16-2012, 02:43 PM
You know what I'm basing it on? Actually watching Yankees games. Crazy, right?
I probably watched 100-120 Yankees games this year, and I'm telling you, I don't care what numbers you want to throw around, Cano was nowhere near the terrifying, MVP-worthy player he was last year. For a lot of the first half, he could not get a hit in a big spot and constantly left players on base in key situations where last year he'd routinely crack a double off the wall and wreck a game. He got his hits and his HRs, but they never seemed to come at the right time. And of course he's an amazing fielder, but there's absolutely no way any writers should have put him third or fourth in the MVP voting. He just did not carry the Yankees that way this year.
On the other hand, I've never been a Jeter fanboy, but he was unquestionably the heart and soul of the Yankees this year. Night in, night out, he was the most consistent player on the team, and there were a lot of nights where it seemed like he was the only guy who bothered to show up at all. Not that I think he should have been any part of the AL MVP voting, but it was sort of remarkable watching him put together this 200-hit, league leading season this year, and feel like it went somewhat overlooked.
But assuming I'm a crazy person with no idea what I'm talking about, how do you explain how the two New York writers voted? One of them them put Cano 7th, the other didn't have him in his top ten at all, and both had Jeter higher. Are they crazy, too? Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that they also watched the Yankees play all year and saw the same things I did, instead of basing their votes on a spreadsheet?
(also, my location was added during Hurricane Sandy, dickhead.)
11-19-2012, 01:01 PM
This is what you get when you deign to slight St. Jeter.