Thread: Operation Occupy Wall Street

  1. #841
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    RortyBomb posts a lot of good stuff.

    Suzy Khimm goes through the numbers here. I’m curious about occupations. I’ll hand the mic off to “Jobs and Income Growth of Top Earners and the Causes of Changing Income Inequality: Evidence from U.S. Tax Return Data“ by Bakija, Cole, and Heim. This is the latest and greatest report on occupations and inequality. Here’s a chart of the occupations of the top 1%:
    Inequality has fractals. Let’s go into the top 0.1% — what do they look like? Here’s the chart of the occupations of the top 0.1%, including capital gains:
    It boils down to managers, executives, and people who work in finance. From the paper: “[o]ur findings suggest that the incomes of executives, managers, supervisors, and financial professionals can account for 60 percent of the increase in the share of national income going to the top percentile of the income distribution between 1979 and 2005.”

    I am highly amused that even doing well working at Microsoft doesn't get me into these rarified reaches. And that "deceased" is the same as "not working."

    Elizabeth Warren's fantastic writing on how dual-income families barely scrape by now, with far less "frivolous spending" than in the 1970s:

    Why does the over-consumption myth persist? Why does a story of misbehavior and irresponsibility win out over a story of hard-working people who get caught up in job losses, medical debts, and family breakups? Why is there no acknowledgement that financial misfortune is often a matter of bad luck, and that the long lines at the bankruptcy courts and the high rates of credit-card default have little to do with irresponsible spending?

    One explanation is political. High-interest credit-card issuers and sub-prime-mortgage lenders operate only because a careful combination of deregulation and protective regulation permits creditors to charge fees and interest rates that would have landed them in jail less than 25 years ago. If millions of Americans believed that families were losing their homes because of deceptive marketing and oppressive contract terms, there would be a public outcry to change the regulations that favor banks over consumers. But as long as Americans believe that the only people in financial trouble are the spendthrifts, there is no reason to restrict the lenders. Everyone is getting just what he deserves.
    Because it never gets old, Doug Henwood's fantastic insider book about the nuts-and-bolts of how Wall Street functions.

    A highly romanticized corner of finance is the venture capital industry, which supplies funds to small, new firms, prominently though not exclusively in high-tech. Typically, money is pooled by institutions and rich individuals into partnerships under the management of a small expert team. The failure rate is high, but the successes can make it all worthwhile; everyone wants to hit the next Compaq. Rates of return run between 0% in bad years (like 1984 and 1990) to 60% in good ones (like 1980 and 1995), averaging around 20% since 1980 (Venture Economics data, reported in Mehta 1996). Many initial public offerings (IPOs) are designed to cash out the original investors; though some venture capitalists keep their money and even a management presence at companies once they go public, the idea is not to nurture a large portfolio of mature operating companies, but to provide finance and guidance at the embryonic stage. As important as that sounds, the venture capital industry is surprisingly small. In 1995, venture pools totaled $34 billion, down a bit from 1990’s $36 billion, and dwarfed by the stock market’s $8.4 trillion capitalization. Inflows of $4.4 billion exceeded new commitments of $3.9 billion — well under 1% of that year’s nonresidential investment — suggesting that the venture industry isn’t going wanting for funds (Venture Capital Journal, various issues). This looks like further proof that the outside financing of real investment, Wall Street’s advertised social role, is actually a rather tiny part of what the racket is all about.
    Yes, that's right - Wall Street does not raise significant amounts of capital for businesses. It's almost entirely about the very-esoteric, third-removed process of giving a very small number of businesspeople a way to cash out when their businesses get really big, combined with retained-earnings-investment-by-proxy for everyone else.

    Did you wonder how the exact stock prices they report get made? It's literally a tiny number of guys acting as the bartering intermediaries on the floor. It's truly dumbfounding.

    In official mythology, the credit markets exist to collect the savings of households in order to lend to businesses that need other people’s money in order to make productive investments that allow them, and the whole economy, to grow. In some deep sense, this may be true; debts are claims on future growth in incomes, and under capitalism, the principal engine of growth is investment by nonfinancial corporations. But while such deep truths are not irrelevant, reality is a lot messier. Nonfinancial business accounted for just 22% of outstanding credit market debt in 1997, well under the 26% share owed by households, and just a bit above the 19% share owed by the U.S. government. These debts are not claims on future profits, but on future wages and taxes. Unlike business debts, there are no real income-producing capital assets offsetting these obligations.
    Wall Street is probably the single biggest impact book I have on my shelf.
    Last edited by Jason McCullough; 10-18-2011 at 12:32 AM.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damien Neil View Post
    Increased life expectancy doesn't necessarily translate to increased working life expectancy. Anyone working a job that involves much manual labor is going to be lucky to be able to keep it up at 65, let alone as they continue to age.
    You're right about the manual labour part, but my father is 74 and has continued to work in the education field. It's not a question of money but rather the desire to still be useful and active. All the research points to keeping mentally active as a way of staving off the degenerative aspects of the aging process.

    I'm impressed that he's taking a Calculus course online from the local university. I wish I'd picked up the knack from him - I don't even know what Calculus is, heh.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Hatter View Post
    I wish I'd picked up the knack from him - I don't even know what Calculus is, heh.
    The summary under "Outline of calculus" is a bit clearer than that in the main wikipedia page on calculus.

  4. #844
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    Thanks for the link to that Warren piece, Jason M. I'd missed that. Great reading.

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Sheds View Post
    Thanks for the link to that Warren piece, Jason M. I'd missed that. Great reading.
    Reading Warren just makes me that much more pissed off that the Obama admin went out of their way to ensure she didn't get the job to lead the protection agency she was instrumental in getting set up.

  6. #846
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    Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

    1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.

    3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.
    http://files.neilgaiman.com/mirror/1...y-snicket.html

  7. #847
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    True story, Mr. Snicket.

    Thanks for the link.

  8. #848
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    Try to get a 200,000$ loan for investment. Go ahead, please.

    Now take 100,000$ in a stock acount and make a buy order worth 300,000$. The brokerage firm places the order, five minutes later you're holding 300,000$ in stock on margin. Thank you come again. (and at usually quite decent rates, no late fees, no payment penalties, no processing fees).

  9. #849
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    While I agree with the sentiment, regular people generally can't get more than 50% margin when buying. Maintenance might be 30% on most stocks, meaning you could hold $300k in stock with $100k in equity before you generate a margin call, but you can't start there.

    Institutions manage much higher leverage than that, but for the man on the street, those are the limits.

  10. #850
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    Hrm? I get 100% margin all the time. Under certain criteria you can be approved for up to 4x.

  11. #851
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    I guess people on Wall Street and in Washington didn't see what happened in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Snicket
    Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.

  12. #852
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    Egyptian activists are now advising American Occupy Wall Street protestors.

    The protesters in New York’s Zuccotti Park — and their offshoots around the country — often cite the mass demonstrations earlier this year in Cairo’s Tahrir Square as their inspiration. So maybe it shouldn’t be much of a surprise that Ahmed Maher, one of the leading figures in those Egyptian protests, has been corresponding for weeks with the Occupy Wall Streeters, whom he calls “our brothers.”

    Maher is one of the founders of the April 6 Youth, which used Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to galvanize Egyptians against President Hosni Mubarak. Recently, however, his attention has turned towards America, where he’s been chatting online with Occupy activists. Those conversations center around practical advice from a successful Egyptian revolutionary. Usually, they occur through Facebook. On Tuesday, for the first time, they happened face-to-face.

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    Awesome.

  14. #854
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    "OWS affiliated with Muslin Terrorists?" - next Drudge headline.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gus_Smedstad View Post
    While I agree with the sentiment, regular people generally can't get more than 50% margin when buying. Maintenance might be 30% on most stocks, meaning you could hold $300k in stock with $100k in equity before you generate a margin call, but you can't start there.

    Institutions manage much higher leverage than that, but for the man on the street, those are the limits.
    Maint. fees depend on account value. Low value accounts say, half a million to $2M pay high maint. and fees. Most financial places we checked out before parking our retirement money have a sliding scale for the fees. Eventually you get to a bracket where they become zero to negligible.

    So yeah the top 10% even subsidize the top 1%'s investment fees. They'd ask the bottom 90% but they can't buy into these accounts.

  16. #856
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    The REAL prediction Market?



    Whoops, meant to post in GOP thread, though in retrospect it works perfectly well here...

  17. #857
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    Whatever you think about #OWS -- useless, incoherent, stupid -- it's got Eric Cantor suddenly giving speeches on 'Income Inequality'. It's put Glass-Steagall on the lips of politicians everywhere.

    “The demands are broadly health care, education and not to feel exploited at the high-level, and the desire to not live month-to-month on bills, food and rent and under less of the burden of debt at the practical level.

    “The people in the tumblr aren’t demanding to bring democracy into the workplace via large-scale unionization, much less shorter work days and more pay. They aren’t talking the language of mid-twentieth century liberalism, where everyone puts on blindfolds and cuts slices of pie to share. The 99% looks too beaten down to demand anything as grand as ‘fairness’ in their distribution of the economy. There’s no calls for some sort of post-industrial personal fulfillment in their labor—very few even invoke the idea that a job should ‘mean something.’ It’s straight out of antiquity—free us from the bondage of our debts and give us a basic ability to survive.”
    http://baselinescenario.com/2011/10/...ity/#more-9377


  18. #858
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    Now there's a literate protest poster.

    [Please note how I didn't quote the image.]

  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Perkins View Post
    [Please note how I didn't quote the image.]
    You, sir, are a true gentleman.

  20. #860
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    There's still a lot of silliness going on, but as the piece drives home at the end, it may be better than doing nothing I suppose.

  21. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam B View Post
    You, sir, are a true gentleman.
    Someone needs to model appropriate behavior for the young people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolonial View Post
    There's still a lot of silliness going on, but as the piece drives home at the end, it may be better than doing nothing I suppose.
    For Canadians.

    http://dailyshow.thecomedynetwork.ca/#player-area

  23. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morberis View Post
    You, sir, are a true gentleman.

  24. #864
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    Well dam, proof of a few things - though some I'm sure some will say it's just common sense and a waste of time.

    Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world

    AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.
    Fun fact, my car insurance company is number 4! Damn if they don't treat me good though...

  25. #865
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    That's really interesting, although it's really hard to believe that "Old Mutual Public Limited Company" is actually a thing. Also, apart from the headline that seems like pretty responsible science writing.

  26. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard_King View Post
    That's really interesting, although it's really hard to believe that "Old Mutual Public Limited Company" is actually a thing. .

    They seem to have a really nice website though!

    Old Mutual is a leading international long-term savings, investment and protection Group ... Old Mutual plc is a public company limited by shares, incorporated in ...

    Share Price
    19 Oct 11, delayed 15 minutes
    LDN:
    108.80 GBp
    at 16:35 BST
    JHB:
    1360 ZAc
    at 17:00 CAT

  27. #867
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    Collusion, you say?

    The Texas Rangers nominated Dallas Mavericks power forward Dirk Nowitzki to throw out the opening pitch at one of their World Series home games. And why not? Dirk is a Dallas sports icon, and a historic figure as the first European to win an NBA MVP. His team, the Mavericks, is also the reigning NBA champions and thus an excellent good luck charm for a fellow Metroplex squad.

    But Major League Baseball vetoed the idea out of respect for the NBA owners’ lockout of its players.

    Note that this kind of “secondary strike” is illegal when done on the labor side. In other words, if one union goes on strike at a firm somewhere, other unions aren’t allowed to engage in solidaristic boycotts of the firm if it decides to stay in business by hiring replacement workers. The teamsters can’t refuse to make deliveries. This ban on secondary strikes deprives unions of the potentially powerful tool of cross-sector solidarity. For political purposes, unions can team up and collaborate, but in the basic world of labor negotiations they can’t. But when the NBA owners decide they won’t stage any games until players agree to accept lower pay, other rich types across the country come to their assistance and it’s all perfectly legal.

  28. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibble View Post
    I'm going to assume, for the sake of not being outraged, that you're just trying to compare methods here instead of comparing the underlying issues.

    The main issue here is that sitting down on the bus was as much about not being allowed to sit down on the bus as it was about the broader issue of equality. A sit-in at a bank isn't really about any denied right, specifically. Same thing with picketing outside some rich schmuck's house or standing around in the middle of Wall Street. As you're pointing out, the action right now is about venting and visibility for the movement rather than targeting a specific desired change.

    The tough part is figuring out what kind of visible actions people can really take if they want to fix the slanted economic system. Primary challenges to get better politicians are nice, but getting enough in there to make a difference is tough. Voting with your wallet might be effective if you could get enough people on board, but I have a hard time believing that anything less than a mass exodus away from big banks is going to make a difference.
    This is kind of hard to do with this issue set. The problem with wealth based protests is most of the ways you can break the law to protest them is actually... well... breaking the law. And not in a particularly sympathetic way. Imagine mobs deciding that they would stop recognizing the right of corporations to own property. That wouldn't play well even on social media.

    There's a whole moral angle to wealth and property rights by design that comes from having an extended period of time with a large middle class and a pervasive upward social mobility myth. It takes significant portions of society believing that property rights will never work in their favor for the social contract to fall apart but it only takes a thousand odd protesters (or Koch plants) to decide that a demonstration of a world without property rights would benefit their cause to blow up an otherwise useful movement in everyones face.

    The issues aren't as mediagenic as those of the Civil Rights Movement and the media isn't as open to the idea either.

    See upthread where I say that the Civil Rights Movement is a bad analogy and get slammed for switching the analogy to the Civil War as a more structural and economically motivated struggle.

  29. #869
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    [Referring to the bit above about secondary boycotts and such in Jason's post] You can thank the Taft-Hartley Act for that particular bit of bullshit. One of the main reasons that unions in the US became so focused on their current members as opposed to furthering the interests of working people in general was that the Taft-Hartley Act tied their hands in many ways. It was the first great victory in the post WW II project of the American Right to roll back the New Deal.
    Last edited by Papageno; 10-19-2011 at 10:55 PM.

  30. #870
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    MLB reversed that decision just so you know.

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