Thread: Conquest of Elysium 3

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedTheFreak View Post
    As far as my experinece with Desura goes it's pretty non-intrusive. In fact the download link for the game was right on the Desura product page for the game, and I used we web URL pointing to desura.com to get they key all without even having Desura running - presumably if I had it running it would have been a smoother process though.

    You don't need Desura to be running to launch and play CoE3 or anything though. It doesn't even use it for multiplayer or anything.
    Just to clarify, are you saying when I've purchased the game, I get the Desura product page in a "purchaser" version and can decide whether to download the game via the client or directly? (I think I've seen that with some freeware games hosted on Desura in the past.)
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  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edirr View Post
    Where did you even find the .tga files for the map squares? Did you extract them out somehow? I have absolutely zero idea of that.
    For me they show up as regular files in my \Desura\Common\Conquest of Elysium 3\Data folder (installed using the default folder location).

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezaf View Post
    Just to clarify, are you saying when I've purchased the game, I get the Desura product page in a "purchaser" version and can decide whether to download the game via the client or directly? (I think I've seen that with some freeware games hosted on Desura in the past.)
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    Yes - at least that's how it was when it went live. In fact when it went live it wasn't available through Desura, however the download links were working just fine, so I used those.

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixRising View Post
    There are no weapons in the game that are 9-10 damage or 13-20 damage. A 1-1 (+9) weapon rolls a 1d10, a 1-7 (+13) rolls a 1d20.
    Good to know; I took the numbers from a previous post.
    If we restrict to weapons that roll 1 to x, then expected damage is (x^2+x)/(2x-2);
    it looks like once we get past x=3 this is increasing in x , which is reassuring. :)

  5. #815
    Spinning Toe Kelan's Avatar
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    I am currently working on a custom 36 x 25 map balanced with starting points for 4 players. I still need to test it, but will post the map when I am done if there is an interest. I am not really sure where to put it to host it yet, though :). I guess I will have to look into the free hosting sites available.

    Basically, there will be monster spawning sites in each quadrant of the map that will grant the person that first takes them a magic item or more. There will also be a higher chance of the creatures guarding them to have magic items already on them.

    There is also a crystal tower in each area near the player's starting location. These will periodically (probably something like 1 per year) spawn random magic items for any army standing on it to receive it. So, these will be important items to keep armies on and to protect. There area a few other twists I am working on, but not sure if I will get them in.

    Now, to do some testing!

  6. #816
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    The map files are in effect text files. So you could use pastebin or similar or even post here and we could copy/paste. Of course there is always dropbox or mediafire.

    Your map sounds like a swell idea and I for one look forward to you posting it.

  7. #817
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    There is a maps directory at coe3.proboards.com.
    You could make a thread for your map and use the CODE tag then just paste it into a message

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloOhm View Post
    ...AI needs work. The last guy I beat kept basically suiciding his army into my giant army until he lost all his commanders. I never even saw where his capital was. I know I can give it uber advantages but that's not what I want. I want one that doesn't win the game for me. I'm not a very good strategy player, but this game feels like you don't lose to the AI, you lost because you made a stupid move or some random critter walked into your undefended citadel. I never feel like I have to protect myself from the AI unless he happens to wander by my citadel.

    I know it will get better, and I do really like the game but it's going to get old fast without some AI work.

    I'd like to see citadels have an automatic defense - something pretty significant. Such that you won't take an enemy out early in the game without a big effort. There's no way to rush back to your citadel so you spend too much time just wandering nearby your citadel waiting for the AI to take itself out.

    I'd also like to see the victory condition changed to you must lose your last citadel AND all your commanders. I don't understand why it's one or the other, this is also leading to too many random knockouts.
    I agree about the AI. In most of the games I've played the AI wanders into my area with small stacks with their starting commanders and they are easily destroyed. There is no sense that it is in danger. For a game that is SP focused if it doesn't have a stellar AI it is useless. And the state it is in now it seems it needs a lot of work.

    I also agree about citadel defense. The defenders should get a significant bonus as in Civ. And I would like to see some PD as in Dominions for important sites. Being able to invest some resources to stop wandering small armies would help game play a lot. Losing resources on the other side of the map (or anywhere) to roaming small armies is annoying.

  9. #819
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    Have you made these recommendations? The Desura forums has places to recommend directly to the developers.

    I thought we had done fairly well on the suicidal AI. It used to send out everything. Then it sent only commanders. Now I think most of them send commander, with army, and leave a few behind. Altho it might be tweakable

    You can get specific with your recommendations. What nation was it? What did it attack? what site did it not attack?
    Last edited by gp1628; 02-24-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by T77 View Post
    ...I also agree about citadel defense. The defenders should get a significant bonus as in Civ. And I would like to see some PD as in Dominions for important sites. Being able to invest some resources to stop wandering small armies would help game play a lot. Losing resources on the other side of the map (or anywhere) to roaming small armies is annoying.
    Home citadels offer a significant def bonus to any units garrisoned there. You can leave a small stack at any location, they will fight without a commander unit, they just won't be able to move until you bring a commander back.

    I usually start by giving 50% of my starting army to the minor hero (so he can venture far), and then splitting the other half between my major hero (for close range roaming and recapturing properties from indies), and the rest at home to protect the citadel.

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by gp1628 View Post
    Have you made these recommendations? The Desura forums has places to recommend directly to the developers.

    I thought we had done fairly well on the suicidal AI. It used to send out everything. Then it sent only commanders. Now I think most of them send commander, with army, and leave a few behind. Altho it might be tweakable

    You can get specific with your recommendations. What nation was it? What did it attack? what site did it not attack?
    No I have not - I will. I have to make note of things, I don't recall specifics.

  12. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeForrestation View Post
    Home citadels offer a significant def bonus to any units garrisoned there. You can leave a small stack at any location, they will fight without a commander unit, they just won't be able to move until you bring a commander back.

    I usually start by giving 50% of my starting army to the minor hero (so he can venture far), and then splitting the other half between my major hero (for close range roaming and recapturing properties from indies), and the rest at home to protect the citadel.
    Fair enough. It just seemed to me that my token garrisons of 10 units or so are easily dispatched by armies not much bigger. But, maybe I need to play more.

    I don't want to sound too negative about the game. I am a huge Dominions fan and I really like this game. It really has that one-more-turn to it and I hesitate sitting down to play it because I know I will lose a lot of time - which is a good thing.

  13. #823
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    It depends on who you are playing. The home citadels do not all have the same defenses.

    The Baron or Enchanter have 3 shields (the max). And the Baron gets free troops there each year. On the other hand the Druid just has a Hut with one shield.

    One of the first things I do as a Druid is look for someplace with the recruitable crown that has more shields. I basically move all home activities there as soon as possible. Dwarfs also are not well off. I look for a location I can turn into a colony that is right next door to a citadel or something I can dive into when something gets too close. I make sure a rune master stays there available to replace the queen if we have to abandon her

  14. #824
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    ^Huh, well that's good to know as well! I haven't played all the classes yet, so please forgive my incomplete information.

  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelan View Post
    I am currently working on a custom 36 x 25 map balanced with starting points for 4 players. I still need to test it, but will post the map when I am done if there is an interest. I am not really sure where to put it to host it yet, though :). I guess I will have to look into the free hosting sites available.
    If you go to their indie db site and click on the downloads link, it looks like you can put a download in there which will make it easily available for the whole community.

  16. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by gp1628 View Post
    It depends on who you are playing. The home citadels do not all have the same defenses.

    The Baron or Enchanter have 3 shields (the max). And the Baron gets free troops there each year. On the other hand the Druid just has a Hut with one shield.

    One of the first things I do as a Druid is look for someplace with the recruitable crown that has more shields. I basically move all home activities there as soon as possible. Dwarfs also are not well off. I look for a location I can turn into a colony that is right next door to a citadel or something I can dive into when something gets too close. I make sure a rune master stays there available to replace the queen if we have to abandon her
    Thanks for the information and tips. That helps a lot. Any advice for guarding remote territory form small scale attack? Just stick a small army in the territory? I never seem to have enough gold to do that. I barely have enough to guard my citadel and replenish troops early to mid-game. Late game it's not as much an issue, it's getting there that is. I know to destroy monster lairs and such.

  17. #827
    Spinning Toe Kelan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice on ideas to post my map. It is proving a bit more difficult than I planned, but I am learning a lot! I can't seem to get the -2 player flag to work with some events. It does seem to work with a -1 though, but that may allow independants to claim the magic items first! That could make it interesting though :).

    I think I finally have the commands figured out to work that way I want to. I am testing with a 4 player (all Human) hot-seat game and one thing that I don't like is that just before player 1 gets their turn, the messages for all of the scripted recurring and ownsloc events are firing at once for all players. So, if players 2-4 aren't looking over player 1's shoulder, they wouldn't realize they got some new magic items. I am unsure how this will work with a networked game, but hopefully it is just because it is hot-seat.

  18. #828
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    Okay!

    I tried the proboards forum first and seemed to do the trick. Here is a link to the post and the map file. I think you have to register to be able to download files.

    http://coe3.proboards.com/index.cgi?...play&thread=27

    I hope it works okay, but as I mentioned there, I haven't had a lot of time to test it. However, feel free to test it if you want to play with some more magic items!

    Hopefully the snow will not take too long and I can try a game myself later.

  19. #829
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    Druids seem OP to me though maybe I've just been lucky with maps with lots of forest tiles.

    Also noticed this game creates a lot of folders in the temp directory. Default: (C:\users\username\AppData\Local\Temp)


  20. #830
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    About guarding resources, one thing I've been trying out as a strategy is that once I capture a mine or other resource I drop off units in my army that have battle afflictions (you can hit "b" in the troop transfer screen), along with a grunt or two. Generally this has seemed to be enough to hold many places, and I've noticed fewer losses to brigands and beasties this way. It depends on finding more citadels one can use to replace the garrisoned units, of course, and having the gold to buy them.

  21. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by thither View Post
    About guarding resources, one thing I've been trying out as a strategy is that once I capture a mine or other resource I drop off units in my army that have battle afflictions (you can hit "b" in the troop transfer screen), along with a grunt or two. Generally this has seemed to be enough to hold many places, and I've noticed fewer losses to brigands and beasties this way. It depends on finding more citadels one can use to replace the garrisoned units, of course, and having the gold to buy them.
    Yeah I've found usually 5 troops or so are enough to defend a location against most wandering stacks. When you factor in the defense bonus and defenders attacking first that gives a pretty big boost to garrison units.

  22. #832
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    I'm enjoying the way you have to figure out how to play each side. My first attempts at witch and enchanter were disasters until things clicked for me and then suddenly I had a horde of Older Gods and Golems sweeping the map. Both had hard choices to make- the witch needs a few armies to constantly patrol forests and the enchanter needs to completely remove mines from the map to get the good stuff. My attempts with a Demonologist went fine right up until I lost my only magic user.... 50 turns later and I still have not a single magic user come up for recruitment. What's the deal with that?

  23. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepiche View Post
    Yeah I've found usually 5 troops or so are enough to defend a location against most wandering stacks. When you factor in the defense bonus and defenders attacking first that gives a pretty big boost to garrison units.
    Likewise. I think some complainants and folks asking for auto-defences expect to be able to roll through the early game quickly. You need to use a bit of patience early on while you build up your resources. You can't just take everything you want and expect to hold it all initially.

  24. #834
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    In my current game I'm finding commanders with 0-5 troops sent to areas works OK. They can be used as scouts too. They can take back undefended resources and deal with small threats. Not sure about leaving troops around, early on troops are hard to come by. Having a commander and a few units in an area seems better to me.

  25. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by T77 View Post
    In my current game I'm finding commanders with 0-5 troops sent to areas works OK. They can be used as scouts too. They can take back undefended resources and deal with small threats. Not sure about leaving troops around, early on troops are hard to come by. Having a commander and a few units in an area seems better to me.
    Yeah, early on small patrols work well. I tend to only add garrisons once I get into the mid game and have a good gold income coming in.

  26. #836
    Spinning Toe Profanicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T77 View Post
    I agree about the AI. In most of the games I've played the AI wanders into my area with small stacks with their starting commanders and they are easily destroyed. There is no sense that it is in danger. For a game that is SP focused if it doesn't have a stellar AI it is useless. And the state it is in now it seems it needs a lot of work.
    Have to agree as well. Most of my games have been me trying out all the classes on smaller maps using the default difficulty, so maybe this is somewhat better at the harder levels.

    Beyond the odd edge case where I was defeated by circumstances, I have won all of them fairly early and easily, either to poor enemy citadel defence or the enemy commander sending lots of little stacks straight into my hands and then deciding to come over himself and offer up his head.

    Being near a couple of undefended resource locations exacerbates this, as he will bounce back and forth trying to capture them rather than be concerned about my army waiting there. Often he will not even end his turn within the site defences, but sitting between them which means he is dead when it is my go. Then I can flip the sites back to my colour and wait for his next stack to wander in and do the same thing.

    I also agree about citadel defense. The defenders should get a significant bonus as in Civ. And I would like to see some PD as in Dominions for important sites. Being able to invest some resources to stop wandering small armies would help game play a lot. Losing resources on the other side of the map (or anywhere) to roaming small armies is annoying.
    I don't agree with this; I don't want pd or artificial citadel boosts. I like having to come up with some sort of scrappy defence myself, and having to worry about my rate of expansion, and whether I am spread too thin to maintain my holdings. If you don't want to lose resource sites, you need to come up with the means to defend them.

  27. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by gp1628 View Post
    Have you made these recommendations? The Desura forums has places to recommend directly to the developers.

    I thought we had done fairly well on the suicidal AI. It used to send out everything. Then it sent only commanders. Now I think most of them send commander, with army, and leave a few behind. Altho it might be tweakable

    You can get specific with your recommendations. What nation was it? What did it attack? what site did it not attack?
    You may be right but In most of my games the AI's are taking themselves out long before I see them and it's usually the "no commanders left". Now it could be the other AI's taking them out but based on how I see them react to me I think they are throwing themselves at bad odds with their last commander. Is there any way to see all moves? If I set all armies to AI control can I just watch them play? I'll have to try that and see.

  28. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profanicus View Post
    I don't agree with this; I don't want pd or artificial citadel boosts. I like having to come up with some sort of scrappy defence myself, and having to worry about my rate of expansion, and whether I am spread too thin to maintain my holdings. If you don't want to lose resource sites, you need to come up with the means to defend them.
    It's playstyle I guess but I find no fun leaving half my army at home and waiting 5-6 extra turns to get enough gold to buy more troops to take out that important site near me.

    I guess a solution between what you want and what I want might just be more starting troops - that might lead to a lot of early rush victories though.

  29. #839
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    I think the game would benefit from just making everyone's starting citadel give a lot more gold.

    I can understand how the idea of wandering stacks is to force you to clear and hold locations, rather than executing a bum rush across all the good spots. A large empire is a vulnerability as well as a strength and you need to be wary of overextending.

    But in the early game, when you need to get enough units to hold down the sites right next to your home base, having to garrison everything and swat down wandering monsters when you can't afford to split your forces and scout out brigand lairs or graveyards... it's dull. Just flat out not fun. When your choice is between aggression and conservatism, the strategic choices involved in patrolling and garrisoning are meaningful. When you just can't afford to do anything except wait to recruit more units, there's no choice. In some unlucky start locations, it can be a struggle to clear a second site, never mind actually explore the world and, you know, play the game.

  30. #840
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    I mostly find myself wanting a better starting income. More starting troops would help a little but my central issue is that I have to take a lot of sites with virtually every class I've tried just to get to the point where I can feasibly produce a tiny handful of troops on a regular basis. (regular defined as maybe once or twice a year). Senator (and presumably Baron) have it better because of gold bonuses and solid core troops that aren't based on special resources or commander actions, but on the other hand are significantly less thematically interesting.

    Edit: Yeah, what Thasero said.

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