Curiosity on Mars

[John Many Jars]

[Hugin]

I understand that: my point is that with limited passes by the satellite and (again, assuming I understood what I heard on launch night) very limited bandwidth during those passes, how long would it take them to actually upload such a video, and how often will they realistically do so at the expense of more scientifically useful (but less marketable) data from the sensors and the like?

According to NASA, between the satellite relays and Curiosity's own antenna, they hope to be able to upload about 30 megabytes of data per day.

Now, one thing to keep in mind is that Curiosity is slow. It does everything quite slowly, as a matter of safety and limitations in available power. So there may well be plenty of relatively low priority windows while it's (again, relatively speaking) farting around maneuvering into position or unfolding or stowing this or that thingy or waiting for somesuch experiment phase to finish cooking, where they can take some pretty pictures.

[Razgon]

Mars solar day!

I talked with a friend about this the other day, and asked if I was the only one getting a rush in the stomach (Or whatever the English word is), whenever I saw a picture from Mars? He felt the same way.

I listened and saw the call from your President the other day to JPL, and I hope he's right in that what they have achived will inspire kids and others all over the world to do MORE regarding space exploration.

Arthur C. Clarke once said (Paraphrasing) that it was silly of mankind to keep all its eggs in one basket and I've often thought he was right. We *Should* be out there, and we could, socio-economic and politic bull aside. Which is a shame.

But, I digress -I just find this so damn interesting and I wish I could participate in the exploration instead of watching, but you can be damn sure my kids are interested and know everything about this as well, because if the chance presents itself, I want them to help with what I see as the next Big Step, the exploration of Space and colonization of the planets out there as well.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

http://www.panoramas.dk/mars/greeley-haven.html

[JMR]

Check it. High res shot of Curiosity from the MRO.

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images....NOMAP-MSL.jpg

[John Many Jars]

Check it. High res shot of Curiosity from the MRO.

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/images....NOMAP-MSL.jpg

OK, there's a very clear picture of a horse head carved into the landscape at the lower right. The Horsey on Mars.

[jpinard]

http://www.panoramas.dk/mars/greeley-haven.html

Wow, that is incredible. Are the solar panels covered in dust alreadyor is that just they way they look?

[Woolen Horde]

Wow, that is incredible. Are the solar panels covered in dust alreadyor is that just they way they look?

That's one of the other rovers. Numerous little tells, but it's smaller, it also has tracks all over the place (Curiosity is still downloading its rover code. NASA had to replace the flight/re-entry code).

[arctangent]

Curiosity doesn't have solar panels, it's powered by a nuclear thermoelectric system.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view...-mars-mission/

[Alistair]

That's one of the other rovers. Numerous little tells, but it's smaller, it also has tracks all over the place (Curiosity is still downloading its rover code. NASA had to replace the flight/re-entry code).

Is this because code is heavy?

[Woolen Horde]

Is this because code is heavy?

NASA didn't include enough storage for Curiosity to hold both its flight code and the rover code at the same time. The plan was to remote delete the flight code after landing and upload the rover code all the way to Mars.

[ReptileHouse]

Makes sense. In a storage constrained environment, it'd be silly to keep around the flight and reentry code in a rover that will never use it again.

[arctangent]

Curiosity has 2GB of non-volatile memory. For comparison, Spirit and Opportunity each have 256MB of non-volatile memory.

[ReptileHouse]

Do we know if that memory is shared between data and program memory? I would expect them to be completely separate physical memories for this sort of application.

[fire]

NASA didn't include enough storage for Curiosity to hold both its flight code and the rover code at the same time. The plan was to remote delete the flight code after landing and upload the rover code all the way to Mars.

I'll... I'll be in my bunk.

[arctangent]

Do we know if that memory is shared between data and program memory? I would expect them to be completely separate physical memories for this sort of application.

No idea. I think the cameras have their own internal memory, though.

[Teiman]

It will be interesting to read in what format the images are, how are send, and that stuff. Like, are the images raw grayscale, or rgb, or what.

[arctangent]

No idea. I think the cameras have their own internal memory, though.

Yep, they do.

Main Function: Color Stereo Imaging
Location: Mounted about human-eye height, about 6.5 feet (2.0 meters), with about 10 inches (25 centimeters) between them
Color Quality: similar to that of consumer digital cameras; 2 megapixels
Image Size: 1600 X 1200 pixels
Image Resolution: 2.9 inches (7.4 centimeters) per pixel at a distance of about six-tenths of a mile (1 kilometer) and about 0.006 inch (150 microns) per pixel at a distance of 6.6 feet (2 meters)
Left Eye (Mastcam-34):
450 microns/pixel at ~6.5-foot (2-meter) distance
22 centimeters/pixel at ~.6 miles (1 kilometer)
Right Eye (Mastcam-100):
~150 microns/pixel at ~6.5-foot (2-meter) distance
7.4 centimeters/pixel scale at ~.6 miles (1 kilometer)
Focal Length: in focus from about 6 feet (2.1 meters), the nearest view of the surface, to infinity
Left Eye: ~34 mm
Right Eye: ~100 mm
Focal Ratio and Field of View:
Left Eye: f/8 and 15° to f/8.5 and 39.4°
Left Eye: f/8 and 15° to f/8.5 and 39.4°
Stereo Baseline of the pair is ~24.5 cm
Memory: 8 Gigabyte memory allows several hours of HD video or 5,500+ raw frames to be stored (e.g., a full-scale mosaic of 360° x 80° imaged in 3 science color filters with at least 20% overlap between images)
HD Video: 10 frames per second

from http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multime...y/index-2.html

[Sarkus]

Man, I realize weight is always a concern but are you seriously telling me I can get a 64gb SD card that weighs just about exactly as much as an 8gb SD card but NASA settled for the smaller card?

[Teiman]

Man, I realize weight is always a concern but are you seriously telling me I can get a 64gb SD card that weighs just about exactly as much as an 8gb SD card but NASA settled for the smaller card?

the type of hardware that you need for space conditions ir probably much different and with built-in redundancies.

[corsair]

Man, I realize weight is always a concern but are you seriously telling me I can get a 64gb SD card that weighs just about exactly as much as an 8gb SD card but NASA settled for the smaller card?

The time frame for selection and test of hardware was something like 2004 and completed in 2008 (which means the actual hardware is earlier than 2008). Computer stuff is invariably obsolete by launch time.

Edit: also what arctangent said. Materials will be selected for radiation resistance, and reliable beats latest and greatest on something that simple must not fail.

[arctangent]

Temperature and radiation hardness and reliability issues pretty much guarantee NASA goes with hardware that's been tested for years. The CPU on Curiosity, for example, is a RAD750 which is essentially a PowerPC 750 from 1997, hardened fro use in extreme climates and tested extensively for years on the ground and in other spacecraft.

When you have no way to replace a piece of hardware, you get conservative with your design.

edit: also what corsair said.

[Alistair]

They ejected 6 55lb tungsten ballast weights. You'd think they could double up on HD space. And possibly add a phonograph.

[Teiman]

Don't hear the voices that ask for more bloat, for is the voice of satan itself tryiing to stop science.

[Sarkus]

Thinking about it some more I realized a couple of things:

1. There are probably backups to the memory amounts listed. So that 8gb camera storage likely has two more in case it fails.

2. The amount of storage space is irrelevant beyond a certain point given the bottleneck of upload speed anyway. You can take a million photos, but then you have to upload them all back to earth. If you had a camera and knew that only way anyone would ever see the photos you took would be to upload them via dial-up speeds every night you'd probably realize you didn't need more then that 2gb memory card it came with.

[Houngan]

Look you jacklegs, it's an entirely different question to ship memory across 200,000,000 miles and then expect it to work PERFECTLY NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Fucking capacity isn't that big a deal when you're talking about memory that pretty much needs to work inside a microwave set on Low for years.

[fire]

When someone asks me about the Curiosity landing, I have three videos that I play for them in order. Here are my favorite videos about the landing.

1) 7 Minutes of Terror: Curiosity Rover's Risky Mars Landing | Video
2) Phoning Home: Communicating from Mars
3) NASA Lands Car-Size Rover Beside Martian Mountain

What are yours?

[Quaro]

Yup. The reason for the obsolete hardware is:

1) Radiation/space vetted hardware lags behind by a bunch of years anyway

3) They choose parts at the beginning of the design, but the process from there to finally being built takes years.

3) Time waiting for launch window, and time spent traveling in space, could easily add even more years.

Add all the up and you end up with the best that 1997 had to offer.

Damn, RAD750 costs 200k each even now.

[mono]

When someone asks me about the Curiosity landing, I have three videos that I play for them in order. Here are my favorite videos about the landing.

1) 7 Minutes of Terror: Curiosity Rover's Risky Mars Landing | Video
2) Phoning Home: Communicating from Mars
3) NASA Lands Car-Size Rover Beside Martian Mountain

What are yours?

Thanks for that! I'd not seen the Phoning Home vid.

[fire]

Thanks for that! I'd not seen the Phoning Home vid.

Ah, it was upthread. :)