All-Purpose Writing Thread!

[Mark Asher]

If you're doing it for fun, hey, do it for fun. I'd suggest trying flash fiction when you do an exercise, though. At least you can get a finished piece out of it.

[BaconTastesGood]

"You're late." the squid said as it loomed over the edge of its aquarium.

Good start! It gets things off with a bang since, hey, talking squid.

'Shut the hell up Paul' Darion said as he closed the door behind him. "It's not like I can buy this stuff around the corner."

Why the single quotes? Punctuation in general is a mess in all this,but I digress.

He flung the bag of shrimp on the table and dropped himself in the nearest chair.

I'd get rid of the "himself" and do "dropped into the nearest chair".

"It's not like that." Paul said "I was worried they had caught you."

While using dialog to convey emotion is better than just telling us about the emotion, it's hard to get a read on Paul's state of mind. Some extra description would help us tell if he was being patronizing, concerned, sarcastic, etc.

"If they had it wouldn't have been me at the door." he covered his face with his hands as he lamented the situation. Only six months ago he was a top agent with the Ghost division of Inicorp. There he had respect, women and more money then he had time to spend.

Gah, heavy handed exposition! Be more interesting!

"Six months ago he was a top agent in the Ghost division of Inicorp with all the perks that entailed. Now all he had was a healthy bit of paranoia, a fishy smelling suit, and an impatient, if not outright bossy, squid."

He eyed Paul who had withdrawn himself into the water.

"Sensing his mood*, Paul submerged and drifted to the opposite end of the tank."

That damn squid. It all went wrong from the moment I met that damn squid.

This last sentence is unnecessary. It's not horrible but it's somewhat heavy handed and repetitive.

* If you're doing third person omni

[Creole Ned]

If you're doing it for fun, hey, do it for fun. I'd suggest trying flash fiction when you do an exercise, though. At least you can get a finished piece out of it.

As BTG pointed out, writing exercises are that -- exercises. Some will push you out of your comfort zone, some will cause you to approach a subject in a new way, some just provide a concrete task to focus on when you can't bring yourself to do it otherwise.

They're handy for motivating and providing discipline for people either just starting to write or who may be struggling to get back on track. Yeah, if you've got a bunch of published books under your belt you may not find much interest or use in writing prompts. They're not intended for pros and they're also not meant to replace work on other projects like short stories, novels or whatever it is you might be working on. But that seems rather obvious to me.

I got a bunch of decent short stories out of the exercises I did over the last few years. It definitely helped me focus and the feedback I got from other participants was useful. Again, though, this doesn't really apply to established writers.

I ain't one of them, though. Not yet, at least.

[BaconTastesGood]

Some will push you out of your comfort zone, some will cause you to approach a subject in a new way, some just provide a concrete task to focus on when you can't bring yourself to do it otherwise.

And something else is that writing exercises actually can force people that want to write but who aren't writing to get off their asses and write. A lot of aspiring writers have the age old problem of "Getting started is hard!" so they don't even know how to approach the task. Saying "Well, write a story!" doesn't help when they're sort of just stalled getting rolling.

So in some cases writing exercises actually prevent stalling because they give you a framework in which to get going. I've never done any formal writing exercises nor have I ever taken a creative writing class or anything like that, so I don't know what the exact procedure is (assuming there's an established one).

[Creole Ned]

I don't think there is any exact procedure. :)

The one writing class I took in college was dead simple -- in one term we wrote a pair of short stories and gave feedback in class on each one, the other term we wrote poems and did the same. I assume the class size dictated the small number of assignments.

[BaconTastesGood]

Five Minute Paragraph(s):

"You really know -- knew -- John Travolta?" Spanky looked at me doubtfully.
"Well, he did say that stuff." I shuffled the deck of cards in my hand.
"Uh-huh. But did he say it to you? I mean, can -- could -- you text him? Were you Facebook friends? Did he read your blog?"

My relationship with Travolta was my business. Fine, I'd been quoting him from interviews I saw on Inside the Actor's Studio, but I went past the point of no return on that lie shortly after I met Spanky and Tim. And I was still accurate -- Travolta said that stuff -- but I highly doubted either of those guys ever watched that show. And seriously, who the hell lies about knowing John Travolta?

I shrugged and started dealing, ending the conversation, or so I hoped.

"Fine," he said. He moved some cards around his hand, then moved them back. "I call, and," he added, while pushing a red chip onto the pile, "match you a scouting mission."

Fuck. Scouting missions sucked, and I had two pair, eights high. But if I folded I'd have second evening shift for three days. How good were two pairs with eights high? Three of a kind would beat it, and another two pair with --

"We should go grab some of those ladyboys in the pastry shop up the street" he added nonchalantly.

I sighed and threw down my cards. "I fold." I glared at him without much effect. In fact, he looked quite earnest. "What the hell are you talking about?"

[Creole Ned]

On the subject of writing, I should throw in here that I was generously given a copy of Stephen King's excellent On Writing by my secret Santa last Christmas (thanks, Christien!) but I already have a copy, so I would like to pass the extra along to anyone else who might enjoy reading it. Just say so and it's yours.

BTG, since no one else has stepped up, let me offer some feedback on your five minute paragraphs. I preface my comments by noting that an off-the-cuff out-of-context chunk of story is not the easiest thing to give feedback on. :)

"You really know -- knew -- John Travolta?" Spanky looked at me doubtfully.
"Well, he did say that stuff." I shuffled the deck of cards in my hand.
"Uh-huh. But did he say it to you? I mean, can -- could -- you text him? Were you Facebook friends? Did he read your blog?"

The halting repetition of know/knew and can/could would probably work better if the words were being spoken in a movie scene. On paper (or a monitor) they don't scan quite right for me, coming off a bit clunky. Unless they're setting up some interesting quirk about the character, I'd just drop the hesitancy from his speech.

My relationship with Travolta was my business. Fine, I'd been quoting him from interviews I saw on Inside the Actor's Studio, but I went past the point of no return on that lie shortly after I met Spanky and Tim. And I was still accurate -- Travolta said that stuff -- but I highly doubted either of those guys ever watched that show. And seriously, who the hell lies about knowing John Travolta?

In a longer piece some of this exposition might be blended into the story a little more seamlessly, though it's certainly not poorly done and it does serve up a seeming contradiction which the reader might be curious to see resolved -- why the protagonist is lying about Travolta when he apparently did have some kind of relationship with him. On the other hand, if this is much ado about nothing it may be too distracting for the reader as just details in the conversation that ultimately do not affect the story.

I shrugged and started dealing, ending the conversation, or so I hoped.

"Fine," he said. He moved some cards around his hand, then moved them back. "I call, and," he added, while pushing a red chip onto the pile, "match you a scouting mission."

I would change the second paragraph slightly, to:

"Fine," he said. He moved some cards around his hand, then moved them back. "I call -- " He pushed a red chip onto the pile. " -- and match you a scouting mission."

Fuck. Scouting missions sucked, and I had two pair, eights high. But if I folded I'd have second evening shift for three days. How good were two pairs with eights high? Three of a kind would beat it, and another two pair with --

You could probably condense this to something like:

Fuck. Scouting missions sucked, and all I had was two pair, eights high. But if I folded I'd have second evening shift for three days.

Then add something to provide a transition to Spanky's next remark:

Spanky stayed quiet until our eyes briefly met, then he turned back to his cards and said, "We should go grab some of those ladyboys in the pastry shop up the street."

I sighed and threw down my cards. "I fold." I glared at him without much effect. In fact, he looked quite earnest. "What the hell are you talking about?"

And the reference to a pastry shop in conjunction with 'ladyboy' made me double-check to see if ladyboy was a cute bakery term like, say, Long John and not just a reference to something more obvious. All I'll say is I do not recommend running such a search whilst at work.

[BaconTastesGood]

BTG, since no one else has stepped up, let me offer some feedback on your five minute paragraphs. I preface my comments by noting that an off-the-cuff out-of-context chunk of story is not the easiest thing to give feedback on. :)

There is no context. These are paragraphs to a non-existent story.

The halting repetition of know/knew and can/could would probably work better if the words were being spoken in a movie scene. On paper (or a monitor) they don't scan quite right for me, coming off a bit clunky. Unless they're setting up some interesting quirk about the character, I'd just drop the hesitancy from his speech.

The intent was to imply that the change of tenses were there for a reason -- the big event that's causing problems was obviously recent, and things like "knowing" someone were now "knew" because that someone is presumably dead or undead.

In a longer piece some of this exposition might be blended into the story a little more seamlessly, though it's certainly not poorly done and it does serve up a seeming contradiction which the reader might be curious to see resolved -- why the protagonist is lying about Travolta when he apparently did have some kind of relationship with him. On the other hand, if this is much ado about nothing it may be too distracting for the reader as just details in the conversation that ultimately do not affect the story.

It's a meaningless aside meant to give a feel for the narrator -- he's the kind of guy who would like about knowing an irrelevant celebrity. Or, maybe it's foreshadowing something.

And the reference to a pastry shop in conjunction with 'ladyboy' made me double-check to see if ladyboy was a cute bakery term like, say,

If I had put in the next "paragraph" that would have been clear. The ambiguity was intended to be an argument point that would finally involve Tim to clear up the difference between a ladyboy and a ladyfinger. In fact, the next segment's humor was to make it clear that Spanky thinks a ladyboy is a ladyfinger.

I guess I should have prefaced that with *spoiler alert*, but I'm not sure if it's a spoiler if the segment being discussed doesn't actually exist =)

[Creole Ned]

There is no context. These are paragraphs to a non-existent story.

Even trickier than out-of-context!

The intent was to imply that the change of tenses were there for a reason -- the big event that's causing problems was obviously recent, and things like "knowing" someone were now "knew" because that someone is presumably dead or undead.

Understood. I did not pick up on that, could just be me.

It's a meaningless aside meant to give a feel for the narrator -- he's the kind of guy who would like about knowing an irrelevant celebrity. Or, maybe it's foreshadowing something.

It can work either way. Again, I was trying to imagine what the context might be when there currently isn't any. :)

If I had put in the next "paragraph" that would have been clear. The ambiguity was intended to be an argument point that would finally involve Tim to clear up the difference between a ladyboy and a ladyfinger. In fact, the next segment's humor was to make it clear that Spanky thinks a ladyboy is a ladyfinger.

I guess I should have prefaced that with *spoiler alert*, but I'm not sure if it's a spoiler if the segment being discussed doesn't actually exist =)

I like this. The pastry shop/ladyboy thing works well, then.

Back on my own writing stuff, I've finished tidying up the first of my short stories being readied for self-publication. I have a long way to go since I'm going to bundle them all into a single collection. I'm dividing my writing time between this, the edit of The Ferry and soon I'll be jumping in on some exercises on my own site, hopefully with a few others joining in.

[Crusis]

Hi all,

Great thread and a ton of wonderful advise. About 3 years ago I got sick of thinking about writing and decided to take some writing classes. I had just turned 40 and wondered if I could even learn new tricks. My previous writing was pure genius - in my mind. As I took classes and learned how to critique other's work I learned that, ... no surprise, I was writing crap.

But it got better as I wrote more and presented more. Honestly, critiquing other's work was a huge step forward. I have done in depth critiques on everything from a 500 word piece of flash to 10,000 word short stories.

As far as my current projects go ... My current book just broke 41K and I expect it to be around 100 ~ 110K. I'm just passed the part where I usually want to rip up the book and toss it in a heap, burn it, piss in the ashes, and then pound those ashes into the dirt. I am over that hump and it is smooth sailing for now. If I bust ass I will hit the half way mark this weekend.

The fastest I have written a novel (first draft) is about 90 days. The slowest was almost a full year. Personally, I think the one I wrote in 90 days was better. I'm an 'organic writer' but that doesn't mean I eat all natural stuff. When I work on long form I generally have an idea where the book is going. Plot points get fine tuned as I write and I develop characters as I go and follow the classic writers rule:

Put your character in a tree
Throw rocks at them
Get them down.

Along the way I usually like to set the tree on fire and offer said character a gallon of gasoline to put it out with. I keep a reminder of main plot stuff that flows along under which ever chapter I am writing. If I get a bright idea I like to jot it down. When I write the idea into the book I delete it.

Anyway, nice to meetcha all. Write on writers!

[Creole Ned]

I am now editing short story #2 for my to-be-self-published collection. This one is tricker because I've decided to turf the ending in favor of something entirely different. I am benefiting from as much objectivity as I can hope for with these stories, as most have been unread for many months.

And now I am going to indulge in a little bit of shilling for my relaunched website, thenwrite.com. The main page is a WordPress blog and a series of links that will get updated regularly. The heart of the site, though, is the forum: http://thenwrite.com/forum/

I originally launched the site back in January and a few Qt3ers took part back then -- Tracey, Tim, erik, russellmz00 -- but I was mired in the worst sort of writers block at the time and let the whole thing whither away (I must also apologize to all of them, as the forum got corrupted -- including the backup -- and had to be wiped). This time I have a tighter focus in mind and even if no one else uses the site (*sob*) I'll be doing the exercises regularly to keep me sharp, focused and in-practice. I welcome any feedback and participation!

[erikg88]

I am now editing short story #2 for my to-be-self-published collection. This one is tricker because I've decided to turf the ending in favor of something entirely different. I am benefiting from as much objectivity as I can hope for with these stories, as most have been unread for many months.

And now I am going to indulge in a little bit of shilling for my relaunched website, thenwrite.com. The main page is a WordPress blog and a series of links that will get updated regularly. The heart of the site, though, is the forum: http://thenwrite.com/forum/

I originally launched the site back in January and a few Qt3ers took part back then -- Tracey, Tim, erik, russellmz00 -- but I was mired in the worst sort of writers block at the time and let the whole thing whither away (I must also apologize to all of them, as the forum got corrupted -- including the backup -- and had to be wiped). This time I have a tighter focus in mind and even if no one else uses the site (*sob*) I'll be doing the exercises regularly to keep me sharp, focused and in-practice. I welcome any feedback and participation!

Cool, I reregistered at the forums, good luck with attempt 2.

[Creole Ned]

Thanks! Once a few people are onboard I'll post the first daily prompt to get things rolling.

[Creole Ned]

The first writing prompt is up and it's a haiku. Everyone loves haikus, so get writing!

(I shall now officially stop whoring the site here.)

[Relayer71]

Speaking of reading about writer's writing, I figured I'd list my favorite books on writing I've read:

• Stephen King's Danse Macabre
• Stephen King's On Writing
• Orson Scott Card's How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy
• Orson Scott Card's Characters & Viewpoint
• Strunk & White's Elements of Style

Along the years I read a lot of the various Writer's Markets and a lot of other books -- sometimes they were just forewords before an anthology by an author I liked, etc. and so I've been influenced by thoughts and snippets a bit at a time.

* With the caveat that I think a lot of potential writers waste time studying the art instead of practicing the art, because reading about writing is a good procrastination strategy. But I did love the above books.

Just read Terry Brooks' "Sometimes The Magic Works" which contained some useful and enteraining insights and anecdotes regarding the writing life and how he got started. Nice short read, too, I highly recommend it.

I enjoyed "Danse Macabre" but I recall it was more just a kind of short history on the modern horror genre and its influence on pop culture than a guide to writing - but I did read it 20 years ago so could be forgetting some of it.

[BaconTastesGood]

I enjoyed "Danse Macabre" but I recall it was more just a kind of short history on the modern horror genre and its influence on pop culture than a guide to writing - but I did read it 20 years ago so could be forgetting some of it.

For me the best books on writing typically aren't about the act of writing but a lot of the influences and tangential stuff that help mold us as writers. There are straight up "This is how to write" or "This is how you should write" but most of those books really aren't that good (the few I liked I've noted).

[Relayer71]

For me the best books on writing typically aren't about the act of writing but a lot of the influences and tangential stuff that help mold us as writers. There are straight up "This is how to write" or "This is how you should write" but most of those books really aren't that good (the few I liked I've noted).

That's a good point.

You should check out Brooks' book; he basically lays out how he does his thing and WHY it works for him and also talks about mistakes he made early on in his career regarding his mindset and expectations.

Most importantly though, his love for the craft shines through in every chapter and is pretty inspiring in and of itself.

[Miramon]

For me the best books on writing typically aren't about the act of writing but a lot of the influences and tangential stuff that help mold us as writers. There are straight up "This is how to write" or "This is how you should write" but most of those books really aren't that good (the few I liked I've noted).

I remember Gardner's Art of Fiction as being pretty good, but I only read a few chapters of it long ago.

[Houngan]

In the spirit of BTG, a five minute paragraph. (nod to bacon in the last sentence.)







“There is literally no way for this to fail.” Jake rocked back in his chair looking smug, contemplating the sweaty pint in his hand instead of meeting my eyes. I think he was a little embarrassed about his idea. Maybe ashamed.

“But what if they don't work?”

He let the chair crash onto the deck, his face lunging over the table. “Of course they don't work! How could they? What possible mechanism would allow a tiny bit of metal to do anything to a body when it's not even touching it? Well, non-radioactive metal.” A gleam came into his eyes that usually meant bleeding or vomiting within the hour. “None of this shit works! Shoes, bracelets, amulets whatever, it's all a bunch of bullshit. If it worked then walking around with a pocket full of change would be like taking random pills out of somebody's medicine cabinet. But shoelaces, man, that's an untapped market! And they're portable, you don't have to buy the crappy shoes that the quacks want to sell you, instead you get all your placebo happiness in your favorite pair of chucks.”

“But if the copper doesn't do anything, why would you put it in the shoelaces?” My own beer was untouched. “Why not just sell magic shoelaces and be done with it?”

“Because the rubes need one layer of abstraction between them and the truth. They've already been wearing shoelaces, right? So they know a bunch of bullshit about how identical shoelaces are gonna fix their gout or bunions or whatever isn't true. You have to give them one more layer so that they can turn off their brains and trust the nice man in the doctor coat. You put a copper thread in the shoelaces and quadruple the price. They get to feel better, I get rich. Win-win.”

Jake reclined again looking satisfied. I grabbed my revolver.

[Meghan Bowyer]

I like the Pocket Muse books for writing prompts and little lessons in proofreading and editing. It's a great combination of inspiration for writings and more technical lessons on how to work through the process. I actually used one today, and wrote with more enthusiasm then I have in weeks - the act of writing it down, whatever it is, seems to make it easier to keep writing. Writings prompts are good for getting past that initial hurdle of "but what do I write about?"

[Mark Asher]

Houngan, I liked it. All I would say is I'm a big fan of the simple "Jake said" rather than the "Jake rocked back in his chair looking smug, contemplating the sweaty pint in his hand instead of meeting my eyes."

That's the writer being a writer. Readers don't need to see that.

I'd keep reading. You grabbed me.

[BaconTastesGood]

I actually like the "Jake rocked back" style, it adds motion and interest to the scene. What I didn't like was that particular sentence though, in that you had him looking smug while avoiding eye contact, which is a weird combination that made me stop to reconcile how that would work.

[BaconTastesGood]

“There is literally no way for this to fail.” Jake rocked back in his chair looking smug, contemplating the sweaty pint in his hand instead of meeting my eyes. I think he was a little embarrassed about his idea. Maybe ashamed.

Smug but ashamed/embarrassed? Hard for me to parse. How about "Jake rocked back in his chair, contemplating the sweaty pint in his hand. He looked up, apparently awaiting my reaction."

“But what if they don't work?”

He let the chair crash onto the deck, his face lunging over the table.

Minor thing, but I had to reread and think "When was he STOPPING the chair from crashing?" Maybe this:

He lunged forward, his chair crashing onto the deck. "Of course they don't work!"

“Of course they don't work! How could they? What possible mechanism would allow a tiny bit of metal to do anything to a body when it's not even touching it? Well, non-radioactive metal.” A gleam came into his eyes that usually meant bleeding or vomiting within the hour. “None of this shit works! Shoes, bracelets, amulets whatever, it's all a bunch of bullshit. If it worked then walking around with a pocket full of change would be like taking random pills out of somebody's medicine cabinet. But shoelaces, man, that's an untapped market! And they're portable, you don't have to buy the crappy shoes that the quacks want to sell you, instead you get all your placebo happiness in your favorite pair of chucks.”

Wordy! Also, the gleam thing didn't seem to fit well. I'd condense it.

“But if the copper doesn't do anything, why would you put it in the shoelaces?” My own beer was untouched. “Why not just sell magic shoelaces and be done with it?”

Why was your own beer untouched? Is it trying to indicate something? Because that was somewhat jarring, since it's like "Hey, I'm saying something -- oh, my beer is still here -- anyway, as I was saying"

“Because the rubes need one layer of abstraction between them and the truth. They've already been wearing shoelaces, right? So they know a bunch of bullshit about how identical shoelaces are gonna fix their gout or bunions or whatever isn't true. You have to give them one more layer so that they can turn off their brains and trust the nice man in the doctor coat. You put a copper thread in the shoelaces and quadruple the price. They get to feel better, I get rich. Win-win.”

I love the concept of "one layer of abstraction" but again, too many words, and not enough personality.

Jake reclined again looking satisfied. I grabbed my revolver.

Feh. You call that a tense ending?

Jake reclined, satisfied. I wasn't, so I shot him once in the chest and left. I had a pallet of shoelaces I had to return.

=)

[bloo]

Jake reclined again looking satisfied. . . .

And fell on his ass because the chair had already crashed to the deck, no?

"...rocked back..."
"...let* the chair crash ..."
"...reclined again..."

I like it but the variable chair jumped out at me

* The "let" in this sentence makes me think it needs an "as"
"He let the chair crash onto the deck as his face lung[ed] over the table."
Or maybe take out the implied intended action entirely:
"His chair crashed onto the deck as his face lunged over the table"

Or for a different rhythm:
"His chair crashed onto the deck, his faced lunged over the table."

(It's okay to post these kinds of nits and suggestions, right?)

[bloo]

Why was your own beer untouched? Is it trying to indicate something? Because that was somewhat jarring, since it's like "Hey, I'm saying something -- oh, my beer is still here -- anyway, as I was saying"

That line works for me. It indicates he is not there to drink beer. Foreshadows the intent with the pistol.

[BaconTastesGood]

(It's okay to post these kinds of nits and suggestions, right?)

Yes!!

[BaconTastesGood]

That line works for me. It indicates he is not there to drink beer. Foreshadows the intent with the pistol.

Good point. I guess that it didn't work for me because there's no inner dialogue to give any sense of the narrator's state of mind, if anything he seems kind of dumb ("Wait, why? How? I don't get it!" even though it seems to have been explained in some form already)

Something to establish the tension so that the untouched beer indicated something more foreboding. But that's neither here nor there, just a random comment on my part.

[Mark Asher]

Good point. I guess that it didn't work for me because there's no inner dialogue to give any sense of the narrator's state of mind, if anything he seems kind of dumb ("Wait, why? How? I don't get it!" even though it seems to have been explained in some form already)

Something to establish the tension so that the untouched beer indicated something more foreboding. But that's neither here nor there, just a random comment on my part.

The thing with all this is that we seldom read books with this kind of critical eye. We settle in and want a story and read right through a lot of the nit-picky stuff.

What I believe readers want in genre fiction is to not be taken out of the story. They are happy to ignore niggling little things as long as there's no big roadblock stopping them. If they get hooked, they read to see what happens next.

[erikg88]

The thing with all this is that we seldom read books with this kind of critical eye. We settle in and want a story and read right through a lot of the nit-picky stuff.

What I believe readers want in genre fiction is to not be taken out of the story. They are happy to ignore niggling little things as long as there's no big roadblock stopping them. If they get hooked, they read to see what happens next.

The reader might not notice or care, but an author's obligated to write as well as possible. Not just because many readers do notice, but because you've got to take some pride.

[Mark Asher]

The reader might not notice or care, but an author's obligated to write as well as possible. Not just because many readers do notice, but because you've got to take some pride.

Why? Do you think newspaper reporters delay stories for a couple of days to go through redrafts that get sent out to critique partners? There's a commercial element to all this.

Many writers will argue that rewriting doesn't make the story better, only different. Heinlein said never rewrite unless your editor demands it. Just move on to the next story otherwise.

I think stories need a good copy edit, but it's far too easy to get bogged down in minutiae that only the critiquers and the author care about.

You could take apart a Dan Brown book and find sentence after sentence that needed help, but most readers don't care. And Dan Brown wouldn't become a better writer from your nit-picking.

If you want to make money from writing, there's a balance between doing the actual writing and laboring over a draft and doing redrafting. If you're Jonathon Franzen, sure, take eight years between books. If you're not in that league, write quickly and move on to the next work. You're an entertainer. Your readers want you to entertain them, not dazzle them. The kind of readers you have probably won't even like your attempts at dazzling, and the kinds of readers who would like that you probably can't dazzle.