08-26-2011, 01:37 AM
Funny I never ran into those issues - guess I must be lucky.
08-26-2011, 02:34 AM
Something should probably be done about the AI behavior concerning minelayers. As much as I appreciate the huge damage of the mines themselves, it feels like cheating when all the enemy ships will always stop whatever they're doing to chase down and kill a newly dropped mine generator. It's the only reason I've won some of the story missions and harder random ones on insane. Then again, if it is fixed, that sure makes me wonder how you'd beat those same missions without a lot of grind and luck.
Aside from that and some ship balance issues I'm having a much better time with SPAZ than when it was in beta. I can't get any ships besides the Gyro and the Colt in their categories to work effectively, but perhaps it's just the way I've played. I used the Gyro exclusively as my AI ships for the longest time simply because 18 credits plus extreme dodging and a disruptor cannon that never runs out of energy is a beautiful thing.
The game could use a lot more proofreading too with some glaring typos, but I'm sure I'd rather see the mechanics tweaks and new ships come first.
08-26-2011, 02:41 AM
I thrust game designers
How? if the mission is "protect X", you can use your ship as a shield between the enemy and the target. Protect it with your body, so if you the one that take all the damage.
Originally Posted by Mazuo
Gravity missiles can help slowdown enemy ships. You can equip these in secondary missile slots. Even if the contribution is making the enemy 5% slower that could be precious.
I have never used mines.
08-26-2011, 03:13 AM
Well, without spoilers, the mission I'm referring to you'll need quite a lot of tech if you want to stand in the fire and kill the ship back and it only takes a few seconds for the enemy's actual target to die. I'm not even sure how it'd be possible as the fire is withering coming from a larger ship class. Gravity missile is an idea, but point defense sure seems to do well against them unless you've somehow setup your fleet to all fire them, and then I'm wondering how you plan to damage the slow ship since they don't really hurt.
Regardless, I'd hope we can agree that the AI's priority list having kill mine generators above anything else ever is probably not a great idea.
08-26-2011, 03:48 AM
I'm really enjoying the game but I literally have not been able to beat the second mission yet (about four hops away from sol...something about capacitors needing to be collected from a junk field.)
I'm starting to think I'm *really* doing something wrong as I've been playing for ten hours and have made almost no story progress.
I'm really on the verge of lowering the difficulty to "Rookie" any minute now despite the IRREVERSIBLE NATURE OF THIS CHOICE OMG.
I'm really spreading my upgrade points out broadly and not minmaxing at all (probably a bad idea from a game company called minmax games)
Any suggestions to keep me from wussing out?
08-26-2011, 03:58 AM
Are you picking up all the capacitors in one go? If so, don't. Every second one you pick up will spawn enemy ships. So pick up one. Wait five seconds to see if enemies appear. Kill them first then pick up the next capacitor.
If you try to pick them all up as fast as possible you are going to be swamped and killed.
Note that your AI ships also have a habit of picking them up so make sure they don't.
08-26-2011, 04:42 AM
Are these known bugs? What's the volume in which they're reported?
Originally Posted by Aceris
08-26-2011, 07:36 AM
I didn't experience these personally either before or after 1.0 (fresh 1.0 game) so it must be uncommon.
Originally Posted by Aceris
08-26-2011, 11:43 AM
Hmm We have never had bug reports on these missions before. If you can send a mail to our contact address and a savegame we will take a look. Any report of a broken mission gets the highest priority, and these missions have been around for over 3 months. Are you sure you do not have a bad install? It seems very odd. We have over 30,000 floating around out there, and this is the only report that I can find of this. If you send the info to contact(aht)spazgame(dhot)com we will figure out whats up.
Sorry that I have not been around for a while. Releasing has been insane and I have been juggling email, marketing, and patch stuff. We hope to get a new gameplay tuning patch out soon. The endgame became too easy and cannons are OP now due to the ion cannon (I added that the night before shipping, stupid me).
We hope you are all having fun, and we do read the comments and will be making adjustments accordingly. SPAZ is kind of a living entity that way. :)
08-26-2011, 11:52 AM
Thanks for making a wonderfully fun game. I'm recommending it to everyone. The teaser for the 1.001 patch on the home screen kills me though. When do you think it will be out?
08-26-2011, 12:01 PM
You learn by doing and erring.
Originally Posted by Blorfy
Thanks again for the fun hours.
My only 'complaint' is the lack of ability for more than the allotted ships.
Or, say, I have a large hanger but I can't split the used-up space between two medium or small ships that can fit in.
I'd really like to try and play with a larger variety and quantity of ships at once.
08-26-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't know if cannons are really overpowered now. Before 1.0 you really had to go cannons AND partial beams to pickup ion cannon and leech emitter, but the nerf to leech and giving cannons an ion weapon changed that.
Massed mass drivers are pretty damn strong, but i remember the fusion beam (i think that was the top level beam) being really strong too pre 1.0. The biggest problem beam had when i used it (pre 1.0) was that -recharge time doesn't (to my knowledge) have any effect on a beam that has no recharge time and fires continuously (ie all of the good ones). This useless stat is found in large amounts on the beam skill and i am pretty sure i noticed it on specialists too when playing through as cannons. This is sort of the same problem drone users run in to where the skill itself shoots players in the foot by not giving good bonuses (ie drone skill not having +drone damage).
But then fusion beams are pretty low range while mass drivers are VERY high range... Fusion beams are better against shields though if i remember right.
I agree the end game is too easy though, but i am not sure how to fix it. Pre 1.0 zombies invaded your ships way too easily making armor near useless and not making you worry about zombie damage at all (because 90% of the threat was them taking over your ships). Post 1.0 with both armor now working against zombies, they just have no chance of invading anything but your smallest escorts, even if you let the swarms of zombie boarders REALLY REALLY REALLY pile up.
Possibly making zombie boarders do more shield damage? I am pretty sure i read that if your defenses are up, they slowly damage you instead of invading. Assuming that is the case, increasing their damage to shields would indirectly improve armor which is still significantly worse than shields in my experience (but thankfully not useless now).
I am pretty happy with overall weapon balance now between cannons/beams/missiles (although to be fair, i am comparing my experiences with cannons in 1.0 to my experiences of the other weapons and predicted effects of 1.0 changes). I still think drones are probably underpowered with the minor change they got in 1.0, but i haven't had a chance to test them in real situations yet.
08-26-2011, 06:15 PM
So about these drones. How bad are they? Because I fully intend to take em to the limit.
Let the drone swarming commence!
Originally Posted by Blorfy
08-26-2011, 07:47 PM
ALmost all of this is from my pre 1.0 experience with drones. 1.0 did not see much in the way of drone changes though. Bomber Drones were changed to explosive damage type, likely making them more effective against armor and less against shields if i understand it right.
Perhaps more importantly, drones, like every other weapon type, gained access to bonuses from specialists. The unique case for drones is that previously drones had no way to increase drone damage through the skill which is strangely lacking +drone damage. Specialists can have +% drone damage, but then so can any weapon type.
(back to pre 1.0)
-Do less damage than focusing on a conventional weapon type. You don't get drones for nothing, you have to give up using a ship with other mounts instead of drone mounts.
-Require significantly more micromanagement than other weapon types. They don't realize it is time to attack until your ship is engaged in a mêlée battle with the enemy ship. If you get too far away, they will retreat. You can't select which target they attack or don't attack (some later missions require you to not kill hostile ships or you fail the mission, i'd imagine this would be horrible with drones).
-Are extremely short range while forcing you to use ships not designed for mêlée combat. (yes, this somewhat belongs with the previous point)
-are vulnerable to dying, further reducing their already lower dps.
-DO NOT TARGET ZOMBIE BOARDERS!!!!!!!! The fighter type drones cannot replace point defense lasers in function because they don't attack zombie boarders. they do attack mines if i remember right though.
-still require you to take a weapon skill and the turret skill. The best drone focused ship (the carrier is technically better if you use it for a missile boat) uses turrets so you need that skill. As far as i know and unless things changed, weapon skill affects drone damage (but even with both maxed it is still lower than just using the weapon) and you need to fill up those turret mounts to survive anyway. This means drones are more expensive and you will have to give up something else (like saying having max shields AND max armor, which is really nice) to max drones.
Drones are good enough to get through the game though, so I wouldn't worry about that, but you will have a noticeably harder time getting through the game than if you had gone any other weapon type. I suppose it could be worse though, at least drones have mounts on a huge ship, unlike poor Bombs/mines.
The current order of power in my experience (partially based on pre 1.0 and predictions of changes):
missile > > > Cannon > Beam > > > Drones > > > > > > > > > > Bombs > mines
(i believe cannon is very slightly more powerful than beam, not a great deal and nowhere near missile > cannon or shield > armor)
Shields > > > Armor > > > Some sort of hull tank without armor
P.S. i like the idea of drones in general and while late game with drones was very frustrating, i am itching to try drones again with some of the 1.0 changes after my cannon/shields/armor game.
08-27-2011, 02:20 AM
You can switch Cannon around with Launchers. I just finished a Veteran game with just maxed cannons. The combination of Ion Cannon + Mass drivers destroys everything within seconds regardless of what their setup is.
Originally Posted by Murbella
The final mission was me holding the left mouse button for 20 seconds. Whereas in my beta run it was much harder while using maxed Launchers.
Basically, the problem is that zombie ships are way too weak now as opposed during the beta when they were a menace. The real problem here is that if you make zombie stronger again any ship you have that isn't large or huge becomes useless.
I noticed that someone was running nothing but Gyro's and I did that for a while as well even though they only have one small shooter. Why? Because they don't die every 10 seconds.
Zombies need to become stronger again in combination with smaller ships receiving some kind of dodge buff relative to their mass, speed and size so that they become more viable.
Last edited by MarinusWA; 08-27-2011 at 02:29 AM.
08-27-2011, 04:53 AM
I play with the big and small carrier (i.e. drone ships) in my flotilla now, so that is what, 4 drone squadrons flying about. 2 fighters, 1 bomber and 1 stealth bomber. I've also upgraded drones to max. I haven't really paid attention to what they are doing or not, but I seem to be able to kill anything that gets close to my main ship. Recently I've started to select all ships and just put them on agressive and send them on their own way, since it takes ages to clear up systems otherwise, when you have 14-15 objectives spread over a large map.
Finally caved and decided to use the Evacuate instead of waiting till I had killed all the enemies, as they kept respawning in 1s and 2s, so it just took too long chasing down all enemies before I could make a normal jump.
08-27-2011, 05:50 AM
The missions where a hammerhead attacks the mothership is killing me. Im at like lvl 34 or so, specced on beams, shields and reactors. My big bus dont put out enough damage, nor does a right hook. Should i take a mine dropper? i dont have ion beams yet.
08-27-2011, 06:21 AM
You should try to find ion beams first.
08-27-2011, 06:22 AM
Got access to a Grinder? That huge shooter mount really does make a difference.
08-27-2011, 06:45 AM
I've always been of the opinion that the right hook is the best ship of that size for beams/cannons myself.
That mission is pretty hard. You want your mothership to tank the hammerhead as much as possible because it is more powerful than anything you can field individually, but your mothership can't survive that long under sustained fire from it, so it is a balancing act even if the hammerhead cooperates.
You basically need strong offense and a bit of luck.
08-27-2011, 06:50 AM
The best defense is an unrecoverable, decimating, onslaught.
The faster you destroy them the sooner they cease being a threat.
08-27-2011, 07:10 AM
thanks sun tzu :P
Originally Posted by Foxstab
I'll try and get me one of them alligator like ships with the big spine mounted gun. and ion beams. then try again with an unrecoverable, decimating onslaught.
08-27-2011, 08:00 AM
Those of you that are complaining about drone damage, you know that upgrading your weapons skills that they use upgrade their damage as well right? Though you do have to upgrade 2 skills which sucks...
08-27-2011, 08:40 AM
Yes, but in my experience:
(with maxed beam/drones/turrets and power not limited damage)
hammerhead with beams > > > sunwhatever with 3 zapper drones.
I haven't tried cannons with bomber drones though so maybe they are actually decent. Energy with bomber does not work too well obviously.
This is kind of my point though. You pay significantly more in micromanagement, fragility and skill points in return for less damage and less range.
This reminds me: I want to play with drones next, but that means i have to use cannons again when i am currently finishing up a pure cannon user.
08-27-2011, 09:05 AM
thinking of using the respec to go from beams to cannons.. worth it?
08-27-2011, 01:05 PM
Unless your cannons blueprints are WAY better than your beams blueprints, in my opinion, no. Even if this is the case, it is a short term problem, not a long term one. If you just like cannons better, that is another thing entirely of course...
That particular mission is just a single encounter and after a while in the game which means you should be able to go other places first. I would personally try to find better weapons if possible and boost your beams skill (and reactor too if you're constrained by energy problems) primarily from the levels you get.
Of course you can always save your game, respec, try out cannons and if you don't like them, respec back.
08-27-2011, 02:04 PM
i maxed beams and reactors, so no problems there. the savegame idea is a good one that i hadnt thought of yet, thanks :)
08-27-2011, 02:27 PM
Will AI drone ships stay out of a fight if they have nothing but drones? Because drones are seriously good at pissing me off so I'd not mind having one or two in the fleet.
I've been going with a mixed setup without much trouble, beams and launchers with a little cannon, and am working on getting a big brother unlocked because they look cool. The huge gun on that one ship is neat, but I'm loving the crawler for sheer hilarity. Its also usually the biggest threat I have to face, so I was pleased to get one. Shields have been a big help, am working on getting them high enough that I can ditch armor entirely.
08-27-2011, 02:35 PM
I thrust game designers
I don't like the crawlet. I don't know how to decently fit it. If you remove laser to add bosters, you end with poor dps. If you don't you have poor dps. Is only good for very weak enemy, and the lasers don't have a long range. While a right wing, or any other fat ship with beams feels like a dead sentence to anything that kiss the beam and is not fast enough to go away. I think is lots of small beams with poor range vs a big fat beam with decent range.
08-27-2011, 02:43 PM
This is going to stab you in the back later on. The benefit from skills increases exponentially and both beams and cannons have uber weapons at the end of the line. Specialists probably just make it even more key that you max out your primary weapon asap and focus mainly on one weapon.
Originally Posted by Aeon221
I'd have to agree with teiman on the crawler. The weapon mounts on the crawler are simply too small, and the right hook just outclasses it for use with beam or cannons.
I don't know about the drone question, but you never want to do that. There really aren't any boosters that help a drone carrier a great deal and you need that extra damage from your conventional mounts. You also probably want an ion cannon on your drone carrier as well.
This is not true. Once you have some experience flying a right hook, you can target enemies with the forward firing weapons very easily. This will also give you practice for flying huge ships which are generally even more unwieldy.
Originally Posted by Teiman