Just Lost Job - Coping/Job Hunting Advice Needed

[Brian Rubin]

Oh, I always write a thank you letter after an interview.

So today was a discouraging day for a few reasons:

1. I had a phone interview yesterday with someone I had had a phone interview with in December. The guy on the phone said the job had changed, which is why they were considering me again, but today emailed me and said that he checked with his hiring manager "and nothing has changed from our side. Maybe next time. :)" Really? Next time? There won't be a fucking next time.

2. A job I had interviewed for last week (with a second interview, no less) that I really liked said they were going to make a decision by the end of the month, so yesterday, being the first, I emailed my contact there to follow up. I've heard nothing back.

3. I followed up with ANOTHER job I'm really interested in today after waiting more than a week, to see if any decisions had been made. They said while they think I'm the most qualified person for the position, I'm also the most expensive, as the salary at my last job -- which is what I put on the application as a requirement -- is $20,000 a year more than they wanted to pay. I said I'm a bit flexible though, but I know my skills are worth more than that. I hope they still consider me, but it's frustrating.

4. I had an interview today that was going well, and fairly lengthy, until I had to interrupt it in the middle to go pay my parking meter (which only allowed an hour for some reason). I was very apologetic, and they said they didn't mind, but it sure looked unprofessional to have my timer go off in the middle of the whole thing.

5. On Craigslist, a company that I had interviewed with three times -- twice for the same position -- today posted what looked like the position I applied for. I saw this last week, and was just as frustrated by it then as I was today.

So yeah, not my best day ever. Sorry to rant, but...blerg...

[SlyFrog]

I have a friend who is out looking for a professional job right now. He was a bit shocked at how far companies have fallen on what used to be basic interviewing etiquette. In probably a majority of the cases where he has gone in for an interview (some of them being half day long interviews with several different people), the company does not even have the courtesy to ever let him know that he didn't get the job. No follow up, and they don't even give a quick call or email in response to his inquiries.

I know he is not alone in this. I understand it is a employers' economy right now and that people are busy, but I still believe that common courtesy dictates that you at least drop a quick line or email (even if it is just a form letter) to people who actually took the time to come in and interview but did not get the job. Companies apparently disagree with that.

[BaconTastesGood]

This has been the case for companies in the game industry and tech in general for a long time (10 years). HR is one of the areas that even the best companies just fail at.

Part of the reason is that there isn't a strong benefit to tell a candidate that they didn't get a job because if they were borderline and other prospects didn't pan out you can always go back to them 6 weeks later with a "Sorry we didn't get back to you sooner, we've been swamped, but are you still interested?"

[Mark Crump]

Well, add me to the list. Reuters offshored my department to Argentina. Anyone hiring a tech writer?

[Lorini]

Well, add me to the list. Reuters offshored my department to Argentina. Anyone hiring a tech writer?

I'm having luck with leads from the Society of Technical Communicators. Might want to join or at least attend their functions in your area.

[VSys114]

In all the hundred of interviews I've had as a freelance software tester, I can't recall a single time I got a call or e-mail saying I did not get it. It's annoying, but I just assume I did not get it and move on.

[BaconTastesGood]

In all the hundred of interviews I've had as a freelance software tester, I can't recall a single time I got a call or e-mail saying I did not get it. It's annoying, but I just assume I did not get it and move on.

Yeah, when doing job searches you should never, EVER wait to hear back from someone before moving on. You can ask them for a guideline as to when they might make a decision, but don't expect for them to call you to say no, just assume that they will.

You can assume if they want you that they'll follow up. Just make it clear that you're exploring all options. When you adopt an attitude of "I have options" it comes across in an interview and can tip things in your favor.

I've been in plenty of situations where a candidate that was otherwise just marginal got a lot more serious consideration because of perceived scarcity ("Oh, I heard that XYZ is going to make an offer for them" or "They have friends at XYZ and are probably going to take that job").

If a company or hiring manager feels like they have time, they'll take their time waiting for a perfect candidate even if intellectually they know there's no such thing. And from the other side it feels good to accept a great job then have some company that was dragging ass call up 5 weeks after your interview asking where to send an offer letter.

FWIW, if you're willing to risk it, you can always pretend that you're about to accept another job/have a time limit on an offer and you're exploring other opportunities but have an externally imposed time constraint. This can force their hand as well (but has its own risk associated with it).

[krise madsen]

Anyone have any advice for writing a cover letter?

I've written a few before, and had interviews from them, but it's been a few months since I wrote one. Also, the job I want to write one for is the dream job for me. It's only a few miles from where I live and they're an internet marketing consultancy group. And that's exactly what I aimed my degree at. I'm struck down by a bit of paralysis with what to write to get my ambition for the job across.

Simple answer is: There is no right answer.

What the potential employer really wants to know is, "why the hell should I choose you over all the others?" So tell them. Tell them the job sounds friggin' awesome and that you you'll be perfect for the job. Then tell them why it's awesome and why you'll be perfect. This is where any info you have on the company and the job is useful. Also, remember they're looking for a colleague as much as for a set of skills. Don't be afraid to tell them what a cool and easy-to-work-with kinda guy you are.

[Stepsongrapes]

Simple answer is: There is no right answer.

What the potential employer really wants to know is, "why the hell should I choose you over all the others?" So tell them. Tell them the job sounds friggin' awesome and that you you'll be perfect for the job. Then tell them why it's awesome and why you'll be perfect. This is where any info you have on the company and the job is useful. Also, remember they're looking for a colleague as much as for a set of skills. Don't be afraid to tell them what a cool and easy-to-work-with kinda guy you are.

I agree with the above, but be careful about how you characterize the job.

I can't count the number of candidates who make clear, through their letter, that they don't really have much understanding of what the job really is. That's actually fine- I don't expect a newbie to know that much; I just expect them to be a bit more cognizant of their expected ignorance about the ins-and-outs of the position.

Stick to generalities on the job and focus on specifics about your background and skills.

[Lorini]

I hope all you guys are taking advantage of Linkedin too. That's the way to get connections that you can use to for example refer to in a cover letter (naturally be sure to get the person's ok first). If a hiring manager sees the name of someone she knows or can look up in her company, she's much more likely to keep reading your resume.

[Coreander]

In all the hundred of interviews I've had as a freelance software tester,

How does that work? Aren't most testing jobs either full time or for at least an extended time with the same company via a contracting firm? I don't see how one "freelances" that way.

[VSys114]

How does that work? Aren't most testing jobs either full time or for at least an extended time with the same company via a contracting firm? I don't see how one "freelances" that way.

I use contracting firms, so freelance may not be accurate, but it has a romantic sound to it.

[Ender]

Also as an HR person let me offer some advice for the interview.

Be ready to talk about your 30-60-90 day plan. Think about and potentially prepare one prior to going in for the interview. Then look for an opportunity to bring it up. You want to show that you've given some thought to the role, the company, and the demands of the job. A basic framework (for HR jobs):

1-30 days: 1. Observation: meet greet…learn what the business does (how they make money) Where have they been? Where are they going? Where do they want to go? 2. Are the HR initiatives aligned to enable the business to meet it business objectives? 3. How does the current HR organization work and how is it structures? 4. Perform needs analysis for HR development.

30-60 Days: 1. Perform HR audit to learn how effective the HR group is for the Business. 2.Do SWOT analysis and define goals. Gather input from business owners and stake holders including the HR practitioners. 3. Define Budget.

60-90 Days: Define Long-term objectives. Define Structure changes if needed in the HR group. Define short-term goals and action plans.

[Alan Dunkin]

I think knowing your long-term plan within the company is a pretty good thing to consider going into an interview... the company is always interested in what you what to get out of the work, if you want to move up in the company, if you're ambitious, etc. I got asked about 6-month (roughly every six months, sometimes shorter, there's a very good possibility of raises and/or promotions) and long-term plans. Knowing about how you see yourself in the company and knowing your future plans (whether you actually believe in them or not) looks good to people in that company, because it shows you're actually interested in them.

--- Alan

[Lunch of Kong]

Well, add me to the list. Reuters offshored my department to Argentina. Anyone hiring a tech writer?

We've got one opening for a non-beginner techwriter in Austin. If anyone is interested, PM me with a resume that I can send to the boss.

http://www.pcrecruiter.net/pcrbin/re...YQYy5ExBIrs%3d

[Brian Rubin]

Interesting stuff, Ender and Alan. Never really looked at it that way, but that gives me clues on how to better answer that question when it comes up again. Thanks!

[divorced]

We've got one opening for a non-beginner techwriter in Austin. If anyone is interested, PM me with a resume that I can send to the boss.

http://www.pcrecruiter.net/pcrbin/re...YQYy5ExBIrs%3d

Man, I would love to live in Austin. I heard it's a blast to live there! Sadly, I possess no technical writing experience...

[Lorini]

I thought this was a good article, particularly this part:

3. Focus on How You Can Help the Company — Today For example, according to Wienick, if you’re asked “What sort of things have you done to grow a company in the past?” you might respond “In my prior role as CEO (situation) of a company trying to turn itself around (task), I convinced the board that we needed to put together a small M&A team to explore acquiring other businesses (action). As a result, I was able to accelerate growth from 3 percent to 10 percent and profitability by 20 percent (resolution).”

If you’ve got 10-plus years of experience, mine your resume for at least a dozen detailed STARs (half that is probably enough if you’re less experienced). By the time you’ve brainstormed, framed, and rehearsed these examples, you should be able to pull out on-target answers for virtually every question that comes your way. To boost the impact of your examples, Mark Horstman, co-founder of Manager Tools, which offers career-related podcasts, suggests using the same material but starting with the bottom line: “Here was my result. Now let me tell you how I got there.”

I will set up a notebook with some STARs (as well as notes on the 30-60-90 plan mentioned previously). Concrete examples of what you've done and can do to help a company will almost certainly go a long way toward convincing a company you're the right person for the job.

[Brian Rubin]

So besides one phone interview this morning, I have no interviews for the rest of the week, and it's freaking me out.

I do have a question for y'all though. About a month ago I originally interviewed at an SEO agency. The next week I had two interviews at the same agency, one for a whole new position and a second interview for the original position.

Since then I've seen them post listings for the same position I've applied for twice. When I emailed them to see how things are going in late January, they said they were still interviewing folks. However, a posting for the same position went up last week.

Should I email these folks again, or should I just let it go?

Thanks!

[BaconTastesGood]

Let it go. They are likely trying to find applicants they're more comfortable with and won't bother telling you no unless you corner them on the issue.

Again, if you want to play ballsy, you can always email/call and say you're about to accept another offer and just wanted to make sure they were out of the running (i.e. it's a courtesy call).

[mkozlows]

What BTG said. If they haven't gotten back to you but they're still looking, the best case scenario is that they have you filed away as their "not what we want, but I guess he'd do if we can't find someone better." The "hey, I'm going to be unavailable soon" call forces them to decide whether you really are good enough for them or not, but odds are heavy in favor of "not," in that case, so.

[BaconTastesGood]

The "hey, I'm going to be unavailable soon" call forces them to decide whether you really are good enough for them or not, but odds are heavy in favor of "not," in that case, so.

The elements at play are:

- the company's need to hire someone right away. Some companies have a time window to hire, others keep open reqs floating hoping to grab talent as it becomes available.

- the company's need vs. their opinion of you and your scarcity

Best case (short of them falling in love with you right away) is that they have a pressing need but want to give it a few more weeks in case someone better comes along, but if not they'll go with you. In that case you can force their hand by saying you're about to accept another job.

If the company is just keeping an open req in case someone they love falls in their lap, then removing yourself from the pool isn't going to make any difference to them if they didn't love you when you interviewed.

[Brian Rubin]

K, thanks guys. :)

[Mysterio]

Huh...I had no idea this thread existed, so I'll contribute to it!

Sadly, I believe I have all of you beat. I'm an Electrical Engineer with 19 years of experience who was laid off from STMicroelectronics in August of 2007, right before the Great Recession hit. For those counting, that's 3.5 years of unemployment and the inability to find a job, let alone be granted more than one face-to-face interview. Couple that extended period of unemployment with my age (now 46; not old, I know, but still) and you have an individual who can't receive even the time of day from these companies (which is ridiculous, because I can (and have) run circles around the average engineer and have received multiple company awards). If not for my incredible girlfriend of over 3 years (met her a month or so before I was laid off), I would be in worse shape than I am now.

Last week, though, a vendor rep I've known and worked with for many years contacted me to see if I'd be interested in a Sales Engineer position with his current employer. He knows I don't have any experience in sales, so I asked him why he thought of me. He said it was mainly because I'm not your typical engineer, that I'm a great communicator, articulate, funny, easy to talk to, personable, etc. I know I'm not the only engineer with such characteristics, but it was a nice compliment. I told him I'm interested in pursuing it to see where this path leads.

And for those Qt3'ers who have the ear of those responsible for hiring Electrical Engineers, I'm a resident of Scottsdale, AZ, who's currently living in Tampa, FL, with my girlfriend. Will work for...well, money! :-)

[Brian Rubin]

Wow, Mysterio, that's awful, but hey, I hope that lead works out for you. :)

And wait, how can you be a resident of Arizona but living in Florida?

[Mysterio]

Wow, Mysterio, that's awful, but hey, I hope that lead works out for you. :)

And wait, how can you be a resident of Arizona but living in Florida?

Thanks! Everyone in this thread currently unemployed derserves to be employed. I can't speak for everyone, but I grew up being taught by my parents that if you put in the work to obtain a college degree, you'll be rewarded. Of course, that's assuming the jobs remain in the US, which they haven't.

Not currently earning an income (of course), plus living with my girlfriend while driving one of her cars.

[Brian Rubin]

So...wait, what? You have a mailing address in Arizona and Florida, for example?

[Mysterio]

So...wait, what? You have a mailing address in Arizona and Florida, for example?

No, just FL. My residence in AZ is currently rented.

[Brian Rubin]

Oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[VSys114]

Hope the search is going well, Brian.

I got strange call this morning from someone who could barely speak English who had a job interview he wants me to go to tomorrow. He quoted me a great salary, and I officially confirmed that I would let them represent me for the job and... nothing.

It is about five hours later and I still do not know where the job is, what it is, who I'm meeting... How does somebody like that recruiter still have a job and I don't?