Handbrake/codec advice

[Mighty Ponygirl]

I'm trying to convert my DVD library to high-quality m4v files, and I have to admit that I don't know what I'm doing :)

We bought a Western Digital TV Live Plus and a nice 2TB hard drive to go with it, not a bad little box but I'm really in over my head on what codecs to use to create a good, high-quality m4v file that isn't completely bloated and a larger file size than the file on the disc. The presets on Handbrake don't seem to help me out much: I either get a file that's completely bloated (ie, a 40-minute episode of television taking up 2GB of space), or I get some lossy, artifacty POS that isn't worth the effort.

I've tried looking at some torrented movie files that have worked and been unable to determine the codecs and settings that they've used so that I can replicate that while I'm trying to get my library onto my hard drive.

If anyone out there could point me in the right direction for what format and settings to use so that I can get back on the saddle with this, that would be great.

[mkozlows]

So are you actually ripping each episode to an individual file? I tried to do that, but I had DVDs where it was literally impossible for me to tell which video stream was which episode (and which weren't episodes at all), and I basically decided that unless I wanted to spend like 30-60 minutes doing each disc, it'd be easier to just rip to ISO, which has the advantage of preserving every drop of picture quality (such as it is from DVD) and working well with XBMC, but the disadvantage that I still need to use the stupid DVD menus.

[Mighty Ponygirl]

I'm not having too much difficulty threading out my DVD streams (although BtVS was a little annoying in places).

ISOs look like they could be problematic for the WD Live Plus -- and even if they weren't, I get so annoyed with the bloaty DVD menus and stupid previews and unskippable crap I would much prefer to just have nice, tight little episode files that I could navigate in the file browser view.

[Zylon]

If you're at all concerned about image quality, transcoding is never a good idea.

And why M4V? That's an accursed proprietary iTunes format.

[Mighty Ponygirl]

I suppose they're technically mpeg-4 files, they just have an m4v extension. Again, I point you to the first post where I declare I do not know what I am doing. I suppose it's interesting to nitpick the whys instead of addressing the hows, though.

And I see plenty of transcoded stuff online that doesn't look like ass. I just can't seem to re-create it.

[chequers]

In handbrake, use x264 in Constant RateFactor mode, trying values from 23 - 18. Higher values are lower quality.
Make sure you have latest handbrake and x264

[wumpus]

Why not just use the "High Profile" or "Normal" preset in Handbrake? That's what I do and it works great.

(beware, only High Profile preserves the AC3 soundtrack, if you're into that; Normal converts it to high quality stereo.)

[rei]

M4V isn't an "accursed proprietary iTunes format."

[dermot]

If you're at all concerned about image quality, transcoding is never a good idea.

And why M4V? That's an accursed proprietary iTunes format.

It's an open standard you lunatic. That's why practically every player under the sun supports it these days. I don't think Apple use many proprietary formats at all these days.

[Sean Hargraves]

In Handbrake, I use the High Profile preset, then tweak it in the following way:

Picture Tab: I set Anamorphic to "None." This limits the Width to the size of the source material, which as far as I can tell for DVDs is 720 pixels. Setting Anamorphic to "Loose" or "Strict" makes the Height of the source material the more important of the two dimensions, usually making the width of the transcoded video bigger than the source.

If I'm transcoding a blu-ray, I'll set the width to 1280 for a 720p video.

Video Filters Tab: For DVDs I'll leave Detelecine and Decomb to "Default." Detelecine is for sources that run at 23.976 frames per second and Decomb is for deinterlacing frames that need them. When they are not needed, they are not applied.

For Blu-ray, I'll turn Decomb off, since the source is progressive and not interlaced. While it is true Decomb will only deinterlace frames that need it, as far as I know (and I'm probably wrong) it will still analyze each frame to see if it needs to be done, which is wasted CPU work.

Video Tab: For DVDs I use "x264" as the codec, the framerate is "Same as source" and I go with 15MB/(Minutes+1) for target size. I also enable 2-pass encoding and Turbo First Pass.

At first, I was using Constant Quality, but I'd get wildly different file sizes for material of about the same length, without a large difference (that I could tell) in quality between an RF of 20 and using 15MB/min. A 42 minute TV show will be about 645 MB in size. A 90 minute movie will be around 1350 MB.

For Blu-ray I set the size to 4474 MB for movies and 1118 MB for TV shows only because I like having the option of backing them up to a single-layer DVD if I need to and don't like to waste space on a DVD (1 movie or 4 episodes). I've found that 50 MB/(minutes+1) works well enough at keeping file sizes small enough if I don't care about burning them to disc, but still of OK quality. All other settings in this tab I keep the same as for DVDs.

Audio Tab: First, I will use the AC3 Passthru option, as it retains the original sound with no compression. On average, it will take up about 1/6th of the total file size. If I find that the picture quality is noticeably of poor quality I will choose the AAC codec with Dolby Pro Logic II mixdown. This will compress the audio and downmix it to stereo (which I don't mind) decreasing the amount of space the audio takes to about 6% of the total file size, allowing for a higher video quality with the same filesize.

That's what I do and it works for me. If you're a video and audio purist, what I've described above may sound sacrilegious and blasphemous. I don't care. It works for me. And it may work for someone else.

Also, I don't know why but I've noticed a huge difference in video quality playback between WMP, VLC and XBMC with the order in quality increasing respectively. Playing videos I've transcoded in WMP look like utter crap. In XBMC, they look at or near DVD quality.

[Sean Hargraves]

So are you actually ripping each episode to an individual file? I tried to do that, but I had DVDs where it was literally impossible for me to tell which video stream was which episode (and which weren't episodes at all), and I basically decided that unless I wanted to spend like 30-60 minutes doing each disc, it'd be easier to just rip to ISO, which has the advantage of preserving every drop of picture quality (such as it is from DVD) and working well with XBMC, but the disadvantage that I still need to use the stupid DVD menus.

DVD Shrink and DVDFab are great for figuring out which episodes were which since they have the ability to play the file selected before ripping begins.

[Mighty Ponygirl]

Sean, thanks -- I think the difference between Constant and Target might be the big difference for me. I'm going to burn a test file and see how it works.

One niggling point: Did you mean 15 * (minutes + 1) ? If I divide, I get a half-meg file for a 22 minute episode and that can't be right. :)

[peterb]

You don't indicate what playback device these files might be targeted for.

In my experience the hidden tradeoff of customizing your settings too much is that you risk ending up with something that won't lay back on anything other than a computer. My advice would be to just use either the "high profile" or "Apple TV" settings (which are fairly compatible with most devices) and stick with it. Those settings works pretty well, at least to my eyes.

EDIT: the one thing to watch out for is that interlaced sources (like some TV shows) will sometimes have fine horizontal lines in moving areas, like comb teeth. That's an indication that there's so much interlacing that the default decombing setting can't overcome it. Go to 'filters', and switch from decomb to deinterlace/slow. You can typically see if this will happen from the preview window.

[Sean Hargraves]

Sean, thanks -- I think the difference between Constant and Target might be the big difference for me. I'm going to burn a test file and see how it works.

One niggling point: Did you mean 15 * (minutes + 1) ? If I divide, I get a half-meg file for a 22 minute episode and that can't be right. :)

I meant 15 MB per (minutes + 1). Sorry for the confusion.

[Mighty Ponygirl]

So I spent the weekend messing about with some of the suggestions here and here's what I've ultimately determined:

The WD Live Plus is a temperamental device, and I don't know that I would recommend it after the hoops I've jumped through. It has a couple of nice features, but until they get the codecs worked out, it's a real PITA to get files that work right on it (I had to install a beta patch on the device to get the sound to synch properly. Despite this, WD is being pretty obstinate that the problem is user error). My output device is a 720p 46" Plasma TV. However, be that as it may...

After a few non-starters, it looks like a modified Sean option is best:
1) High Profile for starters
2) I had tried using Anamorphic set to "none," but this actually resulted in a few problems: Anamorphic should probably be set to "Loose" if you have a widescreen display, because "none" will sometimes store the "standard" aspect ratio. After doing a bit of research, it looks like you want to use Loose in order to preserve widescreen aspect ratio/resolution. Strict can also be used, although Handbrake suggests using Loose.
3) Video Filters kept at High Profile Default
4) For the video tab, I use the MPEG-4 (ffdshow) codec -- I noticed that I was again getting some sound synching problems when I used H.264 as my video codec, and I'm not sure that the WD Live fully supports that codec. For the Target Size, 15 * (min + 1) is good enough for most cartoons and simple live-action, but for really CGI-heavy stuff (especially anything that involves clouds and really subtle pallet shifts) I went ahead and bumped it to 20MB per minute + 1, just to get rid of some minor pixelation effects that were happening in a shot of fog or clouds.
5) Audio tab I keep at the default.

anyhow, I'm pretty comfortable moving forward: I have a 2TB Elements hard drive to fill up now... I'm hoping to get my full library converted before Christmas. Thanks to everyone for their help.