11-13-2010, 09:16 PM
Oh is THAT why it's doubled? Dang, I think I may not have played all my tanks yet!
Back to the fight. :D
11-13-2010, 11:00 PM
this is still in closed beta right? Damn, but i'm getting an itch to play this...
11-14-2010, 11:03 AM
Yesterday I was seeing what you guys are talking about--long range shots on my KV-3 with the 107 or 100 were actually working! Sweet!
11-14-2010, 12:25 PM
So I'm still having the same problem I had before. Stuck in tanks I don't like because I missed the softwipe back when.
But at least I have the gold for premium so I feel less pain now.
Biggest mistake I've made: I'm playing the Pz4 trying to move up that tree. I complain and whine endlessly about being tossed into matches full of Tiger II's and IS-3's and such...and so I go and upgrade my gun and turret...which of course, moves me up another matchmaking tier apparently. So my shiny new gun is about as useful as my last. Urgggh I just want to move up into something new someday.
11-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Tiers change based on equipment? I thought it was purely based on the base tank model. I have no basis for the assumption besides the tier number next to the tank on the tech tree.
11-14-2010, 01:51 PM
Every piece of equipment has a number next to it, though I haven't a clue how it figures in. I do know that an upgraded low end tank will end up in crazy battles quite often.
Originally Posted by Hanacker
11-14-2010, 02:44 PM
Tiers don't change based on equipment - but the "weight" the system assigns any vehicle is based on how well upgraded it is - and how trained the crew is.
So yes, your stock KV will find itself in lower tier games more often than your fully upgraded one, decked out with the 152mm howitzer and sporting a 100% crew. The capabilities of your vehicle are taken into account, not just its base tier.
The "weight" system also affects artillery. That's why tier 5 Hummels and tier 6 S-51s/SU-14s find themselves in games with super heavies. The balance system weighs them more than tanks and TDs of the same tier.
Or so say the mods on the official forum - with the information supposedly coming directly from the developers.
11-14-2010, 02:51 PM
HE gun is your salvation. The 105mm one. It will damage those IS-3s and Tiger IIs by 10-15% a shot on their toughest armor. More if you hit the sides or back. Not a huge amount of damage, but highly preferable to doing nothing.
Originally Posted by Knightsaber
The lower the armor on a target the more of that HE damage will get through.
If you get dumped into a low tier game with that gun, you will one shot anything tier 3 and below, and two shot tiers 4-5. So it's workable no matter where you find yourself.
It's exactly what I do right now on my Sherman, and what many people do on their Hetzers and StuG IIIs. In the current environment having a low penetration gun is unacceptable when you find yourself so often in games with tier 7-9 heavies.
11-14-2010, 05:43 PM
Spent rather a lot of time playing since patch - overall, much improved.
The Abbey map is a crapshoot. Too many lanes isolated from each other, I've even won the game when two of us "guessed right" and capped without almost any opposition.
On the tanks: M5 once you have turned it into a GMC (open turret, 75mm howitzer) is fun - decent spotting range makes for a good scout too. I'm now on the M7 - purely because I want to play with the 6pdr. Hmm, so far, the T34-57 is better. Will grind to the M4 as well, for the M4-105. HE chuckers are fun... (see post above)
People are saying that the US heavies are pretty good once researched - you get the 90mm quite early, and the T1/M6 are apparently less frustrating/ better than the KV/KV3. I've never yet tried a heavy though.
The game changes have made me have to rethink playing the T44. Before, it was charge in close. The improvements in long range shooting (no warping) have made that suicidal. So need to be much more realistically cautious. With arty being in much shorter supply, I've even found myself using "top hat" tactics on the Sands map...! (using reverse slope to reload, pop up and take a shot, repeat) Need to research the 100mm gun now.
Conversely, the StuG III with 75L70 has now come into its own as a long range sniper
SPG's. Meh. Apart from getting the daily double bonus, have stopped with the SU8
11-14-2010, 06:59 PM
This is working pretty well. Still, taking forever to get any XP. :)
Originally Posted by Supper's Ready
The good news is I have either hit a few ammo racks/fuel tanks or fired some of the luckiest shots in the world.
11-14-2010, 07:19 PM
The stock M1 is a lot worse than the stock KV, but the upgrade path is a lot shorter than the KV's and it gets a lot better than the KV once upgraded. The M6 is nearly identical to the T1 initially (the in game models are almost indistinguishable from each other), but the M6 is lighter and better armored with the same engine. I've only just got my M6 though and the stock suspension makes it turn like a tugboat. The 76mm gun that both can equip, along with the sherman, seems to perform better than its stats would lead you to believe it would.
Originally Posted by Wisbechlad
11-14-2010, 09:17 PM
I'm working on the T1 to M6 upgrade right now and I can't see the T1 ever being better than the KV. Or even equal to the KV. Right now it's all about the guns. You either want high penetration/damage guns or you want to spam HE.
The KV has three guns that fit this profile:
1. 107mm. With 167 penetration and 300 damage this gun allows you to engage tanks way above your tier. You can even damage tier 8 heavies from the side.
2. 122mm U-11. It's an HE only gun, and allows you to keep the original turret. You can spam it at 6 rounds a minute, and it's pretty much the same as the HE spammer on the Sherman, StuG III or Panzer IV. More importantly, being HE it allows you to damage anything in the game and one shot low tier tanks.
3. 152mm howitzer used with HE only. Once your crew is up there in skill levels this thing is amazing. Now without warping I've made shots from across the map and hit. Not just occasionally, but game after game I would finish with 7 shots fired and 5-6 of them hit. This was true even before the patch (I actually unlocked the S-51 through my now elite KV before the update - just required more careful timing with the shots). There's nothing more satisfying than seeing a JagdPanther or T-34-85 turn its side to you 500 meters away, and nailing it in a single hit.
Now what about the T1? It gets more maneuverable than the KV, sure, but that's about it. Its side and back armor are ridiculously weak, but even that I could have lived with. Its main problem is the guns.
The best gun the T1 has is the 76mm NERF cannon with 128 penetration and 115 damage. Since penetration drops with range, in the current environment you will ding and ding and ding yet again on anything above tier 6.
What's more, the low damage / high rate of fire nature of this gun makes you expose yourself more often to potential fire - and you don't have the HP to take it. It's fine, actually very effective even when you're one of the top tanks in the game, and the highest enemy is your equivalent (KV, T1, T-34, etc). But whenever dumped into a "real" game, the T1's usefulness is in being there to take a shot meant for a better tank.
I'm now forced to use this 76mm gun on both the Sherman Easy Eight and the T1 and it's just painful in "real" matches. The M4 Sherman was a pleasure to use, comparatively, with its 105mm HE spammer.
I'm really glad the M6 has an upgrade to this travesty. Without the 90mm gun being an option the path to the higher tier US heavies would be unbearable.
11-14-2010, 10:38 PM
Well, I use the 122mm on my KV with the first turret because I can't stand the slow traverse of the KV2 turret. And with that profile as a comparison, I prefer the T1. And I hurt T8 heavies just fine with it on side shots with the 76mm too, at long range even. Overall I find the T1 to be a pretty awesome tank. I've got multiple top gun awards in it, and have killed multiple heavies above my tier with it on many occasions. To each their own.
11-15-2010, 05:54 AM
I really do like long-range shooting now. Actually, it's more like "more realistic range shooting," because you can use the weapons you have as they were designed, more or less. Seeing a target a long way away and being able to not only hit it but actually damage it at range is great and makes a lot of vehicle/gun combos usable for the first time. Of course, it changes the way you play overall, too, more for some tanks than for others.
My KV-3 with the DT10 is really fun to play now; fire 12 times, hit 10, kill 5 is not unusual, and some of those are across-the-map side or top kills on big nasty things, usually. But even the M4 Sherman with the stock 75 can do wonders against lighter vehicles, because you can use the high rate of fire to plink effectively and many folks expose a lot of their vulnerable parts way too often.
11-15-2010, 06:50 AM
I think you are in for a surprise.
Originally Posted by Dave Markell
The US heavy line looks great so far. T29 is awesome in game, clearly superior to Tiger and IS and the higher tiers look even better (on paper so far :)). I think we will all learn to hate those inpenetratible turrets, buttoned down T29 is a bitch to bring down.
11-15-2010, 09:03 PM
The T29 is one tier below where it should be. It has 102mm of hull armor, but it's sloped, so it's about as good as a KT.
The 178mm of turret armor is abusive and the 105mm gun outputs way more damage than the long 88 on the Tiger. It's actually better than the first 105 on the KT, and about as good as the second.
The only area where the T29 lags the KT significantly is in hitpoints, 1150 to 1400.
11-16-2010, 12:25 AM
It's a bit funny. The T29 being the best tank of its tier and the Panther now being wholly superior to the T-44 (as an uber brawler it's done for) the claim of a clear Russian bias is seriously undermined.
If anything there are simply tiers and types of vehicles where one faction has a clear advantage over the other (see tier 9-10 heavies for example), but no faction has total dominance.
11-16-2010, 04:40 AM
I still think the T-44 is hands down the best looking tank in the game.
What I'd love to see, just for a hoot, is them model an Abrams, T-90, and a Leopard II with the same math they use for the existing tanks, and see what happens. How many WWII tanks would it take to bring down a modern MBT? You'd think the modern tank could kill, on the run, everything on the map if it could see it at all, at least. Be interesting to see how much damage one could take, given the difficulty in taking down even an IS-4 sometimes.
11-16-2010, 06:52 AM
Completely agree. I met a few of T29's yesterday on my Panther and was having serious problems getting through that turret armor on autoaim. T29's will require a lot of flanking and getting closer to bring them down, certainly Tigers and IS's are not even close. And I am scared to even think about the later tiers. Hopefully it levels down a bit, I noticed that their turret's armor (?) stops getting thicker with tiers.
Originally Posted by PapaSmurf
By the way, the same stuff is going on in the lower tiers as well. I decided to play a few US tanks and noticed that, for example, M2 Medium is clearly superior to T28, even though it's 1 tier lower. M3 Lee is better as well but its stupid "no turret" implementation spoils the tank completely, making it an overgrown TD with no way to hide. It would be sooooo awesome (and completely overpowered) if they fully implemented it with the working 45 mm gun in the turret.
It's going to be interesting to see whether German's heavy line is going to get any players now that there are 2 superior lines available. I think I am going to abandon my VK36 and switch to the US line completely for my heavy tanking needs but it will be a shame if the game about WWII tanks won't have any Tigers in it.
11-16-2010, 09:00 AM
I'm sure it will, at first, just because of how famous the German heavies are. Later on, though, yeah. Since I'm not currently playing, how are the US heavies above the T29? It would be fun to explore a brand new line of tanks in the release, and from comments so far the US heavies look viable.
Originally Posted by Stridergg
11-16-2010, 11:17 AM
Why would it be overpowered if they implemented that second turret?
Originally Posted by Stridergg
11-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Overpowered for its level of course.
Originally Posted by JoshV
Because all other tanks in this tier have a single 35 - 45mm (or less depending on configuration) gun while this monster would have an additional 75 mm gun when facing the enemy. In addition to its superior armor and decent speed/maneurability, it would make for a pretty overpowered tank that would obliterate any opposing tank of the same tier and most likely even +1 tier. A couple of these tanks could destroy a lot of incoming enemies. :)
They would probably have to lower its maneurability a lot to compensate for the additional firepower. It's a game after all.
Although IIRC Soviets also had a multi-turreted tank (75mm + 2x45mm), I think it was T35, which is not currently in the game. It would be fun to pitch these 2 against each other.
11-16-2010, 01:29 PM
The Soviet T-28 has the option of the 85mm or the god-mode 57mm gun.
Originally Posted by Stridergg
On another note, I'm undecided what I hate more about this game: the moderators or the artillery.
11-16-2010, 01:31 PM
Arty. You can avoid the mods entirely by ignoring the forums.
11-16-2010, 01:42 PM
... no you can't.
I got banned for making jokes about the asinine forum moderation in the game.
11-16-2010, 01:46 PM
Wow, someone went to trouble of screenshotting your jokes and sent them in? You have an enemy out there. I'm not surprised the mods acted on it once they got them, though. They're thin-skinned fanbois with almost no exceptions.
Ah well, thanks for the free lesson. I won't mention the mods in game chat.
11-16-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm pretty sure I was playing with a mod or one of their clanmates in the game when I said that the forum moderation is extremely anal that there's no point in complaining about artillery because you'll just get banned and told to post in the well-hidden "artillery sucks" ghetto.
And yes, I do have a history with the mods. A long and glorious one, in my opinion.
Upon receiving the email notifying me of the forum ban, I replied by succinctly pointing out that I could not possibly be insulting the devs, because while the worst possible job in the world is QA tester, moderators actually somehow manage to rank lower than that because they're not actually developers.
You could say I was asking for it. Or you could say the community manager is an asshole and has promoted assholes from within the community.
11-16-2010, 03:21 PM
Sounds kind of like "guard at the front gate" syndrome. They have little to no real power so they feel like they have to express what power they do have as much as possible.
11-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Well, undermined until the announcement of nerfs to the T29 and T32 that's already come out.
Originally Posted by Supper's Ready
11-16-2010, 05:28 PM
I wonder if not just those two are suffering from +20%.
Originally Posted by Dave Markell
I've had 88L71 shots bounce off the front of the M6 at almost no angle. I know the hull is sloped, but I can penetrate the KT frontally in my Panther. M6 should be a cinch.
Tags for this Thread