How do adults do college?

[frank austin]

Here's the scenario. I'm 28 years old, and I've worked retail every year since I turned 18 to make ends meet. I have done management and now purchasing and I feel like I've covered all of the bases and topped out my earning potential. I absolutely hate my job. I have always tried to pursue what I want to do without relying on formal education, and in most things I have been very successful. With the economic downturn, a degree seems to have been tacked on to every list of job requirements just because companies can, and I'm finding the transition out of my current job almost impossible.

The advice I usually receive when I talk about this is "Go back to school!" I usually write this off because I've got too many bills to pay to really think about this. I don't make a small amount of money, and I can't imagine any school loans covering my basic living expenses as well as paying for me to go to school. I live with my girlfriend and between the two of us we pay a total of about $1800/month in rent and bills. Beyond that I still need to eat, gas the car, and do whatever else I want to do with my life.

I still always hear about adults going back to school full-time, and I can't help but wonder how they make it happen. I grew up poor enough that college wasn't really an option for me, so I never went through the process. I've come a long way financially in the last ten years, and I'm not entirely willing to give that up for the promise of a (possibly) more lucrative and fulfilling career in four-to-eight years. Taking classes at night or part time isn't really an option for me, either, as I have a pretty full schedule already. Essentially I'd be willing to substitute work for school eight hours a day, but I don't think (or know how) that's possible.

The other problem I have is that my peer group is mostly made up of people who went to college and work less lucrative and enjoyable jobs than I have. I don't really know anyone with a degree who got to use it in the way they thought they would - they almost all ended up working at Whole Foods or in various retail/customer service positions. To me, this is a pretty massive gamble to be taking. Four years of incurring debt for an uncertain outcome seems like a very, very bad idea.

[noun]

Taking classes at night or part time isn't really an option for me, either, as I have a pretty full schedule already.

Doing what? You work full time 8-5 and go to school full time at night 3 to 5 days a week. Unless you're working during that time, everything else takes a back seat if you're serious about school.

Essentially I'd be willing to substitute work for school eight hours a day, but I don't think (or know how) that's possible.

It isn't, unless you're fortunate enough to have a significant other that earns 80%+ of the income and doesn't mind you being out of work while you go back to school.

It's possible to both work and go to school full time, but it is hard as hell and only gets harder the older you get.

[frank austin]

Yeah, sadly my girlfriend makes about 60% of what I do, so that's not really an option.

I guess I'm not serious enough about school to do it at night 3-5 days a week. I am serious about lots of other things (see: "I have always tried to pursue what I want to do without relying on formal education, and in most things I have been very successful.") that take up that time. I'm not really willing to give that up in the face of my wildly underemployed and over-educated peers.

[Marcus]

You suck it up.

[Lorini]

Have you looked at certifications in the areas you'd be interested in? Many times you can do certification classes online and they are cheaper than a full degree. They still can get you a job too.

Also do you have your AA from a community college? Community college is much less expensive and much more adult friendly than a full four year college. If you decide you want a four year degree, definitely do the first two years at a community college.

[frank austin]

You suck it up.

I guess I'm looking for a bit more tactical/logistical advice than this.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, the problem is that you've said you don't want to stop working and you don't want to take classes at night. What options are really left? You pretty much have to do one or the other. If you don't have children, you should be able to take night classes. You can manage that even if you do have children, but without them, there's not much excuse.

I don't think community college is any more adult friendly, by the way. Pretty much all four year schools now have continuing education programs with night classes, and you still get a good, full degree. CC might be cheaper, of course, but then you can only get an associates degree, which isn't what you want anyway.

[Cold Blooded]

I guess I'm looking for a bit more tactical/logistical advice than this.

Spitballing:

There are educational tax credits (they don't amount to much, but every little bit might help in your situation).

Also, employer may actually have a clause in the fine print of work policy to help subsidize your education if you can prove that education will be put to work in service of the company. May want to check with company's human resource department, and if you can get a real live person there, may also want to ask about any other alternatives.

Could also presumably look into educational grants, stipends, and scholarships, though confess to be unfamiliar with any for your age group/situation. Google search for "working adult scholarship" seems to have some leads.

If you have anything in your area, you may also want to make an appointment at a local career counseling company to see if they have any other ideas or leads.

And RE: Night school, there are, of course, online educational institutions such as DeVry and University of Phoenix.

[Ryan A]

There are some online/hybrid universities that offer legitimate degrees and require minimal seat-time (typically about 1 weekend a month).

http://www.cityu.edu/
http://www.phoenix.edu/

Their programs are all designed with the adult (and working) student in mind.

[spiffy]

You could also move to a town somewhere across the hills/out of state with a college and much lower living expenses. It would stretch your savings out longer. I guess you'd have to find another (maybe part time) job and maybe your girlfriend wouldn't want to go.. but the bay area is so unforgivingly expensive I'm amazed anybody without six roomates or parents to siphon off can go to school here.

[Bill Dungsroman]

I guess I'm not serious enough about school to do it at night 3-5 days a week.

Then what the Hell did you start this thread for?

You could try for an MBA from an online place like University of Phoenix, I guess. Otherwise, you sound you're waiting for a magic leprechaun to jump through the window and hand you a diploma.

[Supertanker]

Everyone I know that did it went to class at night. It's hard, but it is only for a few years. I did two years of law school at night, while working 50 hours a week. You're just always busy, always somewhere, doing something.

[frank austin]

You could also move to a town somewhere across the hills/out of state with a college and much lower living expenses. It would stretch your savings out longer. I guess you'd have to find another (maybe part time) job and maybe your girlfriend wouldn't want to go.. but the bay area is so unforgivingly expensive I'm amazed anybody without six roomates or parents to siphon off can go to school here.

Yeah, I think that this is a pretty huge problem. I don't know anyone who went to school here who didn't have rich parents or a pretty punk lifestyle for a few years.

Lorini, certifications don't really apply to the sorts of things I'd like to study, unfortunately. I have looked at community colleges around here, but the expense and schedule doesn't work with my work and income.

Robert, I'm willing to not work, I'm just worried that I wouldn't be able to maintain any sort of a reasonable standard of living if I didn't. Like spiffy says, the Bay is a pretty unforgiving place to be a student unless you already have the resources. (I don't.) I will look at some local continuing education programs and see what I can find out.

Most of the online universities I've looked at don't have anything I'd be interested in studying. They seem like great solutions if you want to do certain things, but I haven't ever found a program that appealed to me and seemed worth investing so much time and money in.

[frank austin]

Then what the Hell did you start this thread for?

Because I always see adults going back to school full-time, not taking night classes, and I don't understand how they make it happen. I still don't.

[Eilonwy]

You do night school. You can work the classes into your schedule and it's cheaper than going full time. Usually classes only meet once a week, maybe twice. It's the perfect way to figure out whether you're ready to be serious for school or not. Just take one class. You like it, think you can keep up, take two or more the next semester. It's how I managed my MA while working full time and having a second job. Semesters where I took two classes in a row fucking sucked, but if you want it, you do it.

[frank austin]

Everyone I know that did it went to class at night. It's hard, but it is only for a few years. I did two years of law school at night, while working 50 hours a week. You're just always busy, always somewhere, doing something.

I'm exactly the opposite; I don't know any adults who went to night school. I think that the Bay Area has really messed up my perception of this sort of thing, because the overwhelming majority of my peers have a lot of wealth in their families that they can use to support themselves while going to school. No one talks about that sort of thing, of course, but it's becoming more and more clear to me that it's the only way that their lifestyles make any sort of financial sense.

[Robert Sharp]

Because I always see adults going back to school full-time, not taking night classes, and I don't understand how they make it happen. I still don't.

1. They live off a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend's income (even if that's tight)
2. They get student loans
3. They save up.
4. They have a sponsor (perhaps a parent).

From my experience, that's in rought order of percentage, too. What I mean is that most live off lovers, and the least actually get parents to pay for it. Somewhere in there should be that a job offers it as a way to educate their employees, but I doubt that fits in your case, since you want to change careers.

[Lorini]

In California, CC transfer students get into UC before any other students (assuming you meet the curriculum and GPA requirements). I should have mentioned that. The purpose of going to a CC is to get the first two years out of the way cheaply.

I'm not sure what you are looking for here either Frank. It takes money to go to school full time. That's the start and end of it. You are going to have to give up something in order to do it. I think you need to re-think your commitment to this idea. There's nothing magical about trying to change careers.

[Robert Sharp]

Oh, and by the way, a lot of night classes are now blended learning classes. In fact, I am teaching one right now. We will only meet in a classroom 3 times. The rest of it is all online. However, this is a full university. These aren't really considered online degrees, even though a lot of the work is done online, to accomodate people just like you.

[frank austin]

1. They live off a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend's income (even if that's tight)
2. They get student loans
3. They save up.
4. They have a sponsor (perhaps a parent).

From my experience, that's in rought order of percentage, too. What I mean is that most live off lovers, and the least actually get parents to pay for it. Somewhere in there should be that a job offers it as a way to educate their employees, but I doubt that fits in your case, since you want to change careers.

Do student loans (or savings for that matter) really cover the kind of expenses that most adults have?

Lemme clarify, I'm not trying to find some magical school solution. I am not committed to the idea of going back to school at all. I am curious how people make this sort of thing work because so few people ever talk about it. Only once I have a more full understanding of the ways adults get their bills paid while going to school would I be willing to try and figure it out. That's what I'm trying to do. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way, but it's an honest inquiry.

[Stepsongrapes]

First, what degree are you planning to go back for? That'll address a bit of the risk/benefit analysis.

As to the logistics, others have said it: something has to give. Stating that you don't want to work less and don't want to give up your nights leads to an easy answer: you're not going to go back to school.

Depending on the degree, you may be able to work out some situation after a couple of years where you transition to an interim job in that field, which will hopefully pay you better, hourly, than what you're making now. You could then work less, while maintaining the same earnings.

But yeah, "suck it up" is the reality of it.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, that depends on where you live. In the Bay area? Maybe not. In Alabama, where Tyler lives? Absolutely. You can borrow a good bit through student loans today. There is a yearly max, however. You can also work part time to supplement that while going to school. So you wouldn't have a full time job, but you'd still have some money coming in. Are you pretty sure the place you work won't accomodate you a bit for this sort of thing?

Oh, and I'm not offended, if it seemed that way. When I asked what you want us to suggest because you are limiting our options, I was just trying to get a better feel for how committed you are to the notion of not quitting your job and not going to night classes. Because as you have described your situation, those are your only two options.

You don't currently have a degree, though, so you may also be eligible for grants based on income. That's something to look into anyway. You could call an admissions person at a nearby college/university and get a preliminary idea of your options. They want you to come back to school, so they'll try to help.

[Jason McCullough]

Things you may not know:
1. Economics research shows that in general employers are just looking for a credential, any credential, to to show you can do work at a given intellectual level, barring a couple obvious ones like sports management.
2. From there, specific specialties (engineering, business) prefer relevant credentials, which bumps you up the hiring priority list.

As to getting an education, think of it as a set of levers you can adjust:
1. Expenses.
2. Work hours.
3. Non-work and education (free) time.
4. Quality of education.
5. Paying interest.

Personally, I'd advise:
1. Find the best state school you can get into. Community college degrees don't have a particularly high ROI, and all the online education credentials I'm aware of are considered totally worthless by employers. Partially online is interesting if the credential is otherwise good and employers can't tell.
2. Adjust the other parameters as necessary. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES go into debt to get a crap education.
3. Bust your ass looking for every form of financial aid you can find. There's a wide array of little-known scholarships and low-interest loan programs.

[Sean Hargraves]

I still always hear about adults going back to school full-time, and I can't help but wonder how they make it happen.

I'm doing this right now and I can say sleep becomes optional. I'll be getting a degree this May, but the journey the last few years has been rough. No time for friends, family or anything. Also, had to quit a relatively well-paying job (where I worked day shifts) for one that paid close to minimum wage (where I worked evening, weekend and holiday shifts) just so there would be no scheduling conflicts. Moved to a smaller place with a lower rent. Had to learn to eat Ramen and bologna sandwiches regularly again.

It was hard telling my brother I couldn't attend his wedding last year and I think he's pissed that I didn't, but I don't really know if this is the case because I haven't spoken to him since then.

Basically, you need to decide if you're willing to make sacrifices to make this work. If you're not, I don't think you should bother.

[tiohn]

Drunk as hell.

[Tyjenks]

oops, put mine in the other thread before I saw this one:

I had a home equity line that ended up getting maxed out. EDIT: And got loans. Everyone does not have that, I understand. I am not good, I am afraid, with pointing to the best financial solution. Working while in school and government student loans is the route I would suggest, but most colleges have decent financial aid counselors that can help and tell you what is available. There are multiple different types of loans.

Not sure if this is helpful, inspirational or a desire for pity :), but....

I was 35, had a mortgage, a wife that worked retail and a kid, after doing only school for a year, my wife found out she was pregnant and then while I was finishing school after the kid was born, the wife got Teh breast cancer. There are no guarantees, obviously, and nothing seems easy at the start and it will most likely be difficult and you will think you cannot take it, but if you can persevere, it could pay off better than you could imagine. It did for me....my book will be out in the Fall. ;)

All this said, if you are not willing to work like a dog to put yourself in a better position and make sacrifices for several years, then I would not bother. You really have to dig down and find some drive and motivation. I bottomed out and was the most miserable as I had ever been. Like a junkie that cannot rehab until he/she reaches their lowest point. I would advise not waiting until you are 35.

[frank austin]

First, what degree are you planning to go back for? That'll address a bit of the risk/benefit analysis.

As to the logistics, others have said it: something has to give. Stating that you don't want to work less and don't want to give up your nights leads to an easy answer: you're not going to go back to school.

Depending on the degree, you may be able to work out some situation after a couple of years where you transition to an interim job in that field, which will hopefully pay you better, hourly, than what you're making now. You could then work less, while maintaining the same earnings.

But yeah, "suck it up" is the reality of it.

I don't really have a strong idea of what I would go back to school for. It doesn't make the risk/benefit analysis any easier, but if you backed me into a corner and made me pick something I'd probably say English.

I never said I didn't want to work less. I don't want to work full time and go to night school, and I don't want to live hella punk for the next few years.

This isn't supposed to be a "help me figure out how to go back to school" thread, it's a "help me figure out how other people go back to school so I can figure out if I wanna" thread.

Well, that depends on where you live. In the Bay area? Maybe not. In Alabama, where Tyler lives? Absolutely. You can borrow a good bit through student loans today. There is a yearly max, however. You can also work part time to supplement that while going to school. So you wouldn't have a full time job, but you'd still have some money coming in. Are you pretty sure the place you work won't accomodate you a bit for this sort of thing?

Oh, and I'm not offended, if it seemed that way. When I asked what you want us to suggest because you are limiting our options, I was just trying to get a better feel for how committed you are to the notion of not quitting your job and not going to night classes. Because as you have described your situation, those are your only two options.

You don't currently have a degree, though, so you may also be eligible for grants based on income. That's something to look into anyway. You could call an admissions person at a nearby college/university and get a preliminary idea of your options. They want you to come back to school, so they'll try to help.

I wouldn't be able to keep my current job and go to school full-time, unfortunately. No big deal if I could find another one. If I had to choose between not quitting and going to night school or having a much lower standard of living and working part-time/at night, I'd probably pick my current life over either of those. Like I said, I'm not committed to the idea of school at all, just trying to figure out how people make it happen as adults.

Basically, I hate my job, but I don't hate it enough to go through the kind of shit that Sean Hargraves is describing for four years.

Things you may not know:
1. Economics research shows that in general employers are just looking for a credential, any credential, to to show you can do work at a given intellectual level, barring a couple obvious ones like sports management.
2. From there, specific specialties (engineering, business) prefer relevant credentials, which bumps you up the hiring priority list.

As to getting an education, think of it as a set of levers you can adjust:
1. Expenses.
2. Work hours.
3. Non-work and education (free) time.
4. Quality of education.
5. Paying interest.

Personally, I'd advise:
1. Find the best state school you can get into. Community college degrees don't have a particularly high ROI, and all the online education credentials I'm aware of are considered totally worthless by employers. Partially online is interesting if the credential is otherwise good and employers can't tell.
2. Adjust the other parameters as necessary. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES go into debt to get a crap education.
3. Bust your ass looking for every form of financial aid you can find. There's a wide array of little-known scholarships and low-interest loan programs.

Thanks Jason, this is all the kind of stuff I was looking for. How do you hunt for financial aid information? I don't even know where to start with that sort of thing.

Basically, you need to decide if you're willing to make sacrifices to make this work. If you're not, I don't think you should bother.

Yeah, I'm not really willing to make these kind of sacrifices for an uncertain education. If I was more committed to the idea, I would be, but I'm not yet. This is the information-gathering phase, not the "I'm going to do this, how do I make it happen?" phase.

All this said, if you are not willing to work like a dog to put yourself in a better position and make sacrifices for several years, then I would not bother. You really have to dig down and find some drive and motivation. I bottomed out and was the most miserable as I had ever been. Like a junkie that cannot rehab until he/she reaches their lowest point. I would advise not waiting until you are 35.

Yeah, I'm not that miserable. I despise working retail, but I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life that I find pretty rewarding that I'm not willing to give up for night school or something similar. I think in the end, I'll probably just have to apply myself a lot more in an active career change rather than hitting the reset button and seeking higher education.

[hong]

I got lucky and managed to get my employer to keep me on (at half pay) while I was at the ANU. In return, I worked in the office during semester breaks. It meant I didn't have to queue up for govt funds or do any teaching. It also helped that I didn't have any kids or other dependents.

[Tyjenks]

Did not realize stepsongrapes said the exact same thing as I did since i was cross posting and added my additional blurb. He must be smart, too. ;)

[Lorini]

http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/

That is where you start for financial aid.

Do you have a specific career you want? One thing you can get at a CC is vocational counseling. I'd highly recommend it if you don't know what else you would want to do.