Reply With Quote1) Buy a 120gb SSD
2) Get used to only having the games you're currently playing installed, and learn how to use Steam's backup & restore system.
3) ??????
4) PROFIT!
I'm getting ready to build my next PC and I decided the one area I want to focus on is hard drive performance. There seems to be two routes I can take:
1) Buy a small SSD for the os and cache and a large secondary disk drive for programs and data. - This would make my os perky but no real benefit to programs, such as games.
2) Buy several hard drives and have a RAID 0 setup. Basic research says 4 sata drives would be optimal. - This should make everything perky but I'm guessing not as perky as an SSD drive. Plus if something goes wrong, you lose everything. I do have a home server and external drives so I'm pretty good at backup up anyways.
There is a third option. There are adapters that allow you to plug in a standard hard drive AND a SSD to function as a single unit. Not sure how much of a benefit that would give. Not really considering it.
So my question is, what route is the best and which parts should I consider? My budget for data drives is $500 but cheaper is better.
The rest of the system is looking like:
Quad core either AMD Phenom II 965 black or an intel Core i5 750
8 to 12 gigs of ram
Vista 64 or Win 7 64
Either reuse my ATI 4890 video card or buy an ATI 5850. Depending on when I buy I'll look at Nvidia's new line but I doubt they will have anything in my budget range soon.
1) Buy a 120gb SSD
2) Get used to only having the games you're currently playing installed, and learn how to use Steam's backup & restore system.
3) ??????
4) PROFIT!
I strongly disrecommend the RAID 0 course. Not only are the performance gains dubious, but (I can say from experience with Dell workstations at work) the reliability is awful.
If you're not going to do an SSD, just get like a VelociRaptor. But probably you want the SSD.
My advice would be option 1: get the biggest fastest SSD + fastest 2TB HDD you can afford. Like checkers suggests, put your OS and whatever game du jour you're playing on the SSD; everything else on the 2TB. Off-hand I'd guess you could use symbolic links to trick Windows into thinking all your games are on your D: drive (2TB HDD) but you place a few on your SSD instead; but I haven't tried it myself.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, RAID 0 really only helps when transferring really BIG amounts of data. With games, access times are the real data bottleneck, not transfer rates, and RAID 0 doesn't really improve those.
As for video cards, I would stick with your 4890 until you can afford at least a 5870 or better. The 5850 is pretty nice, but only 10-20% faster than the 4890 in the benchmarks I've seen. That's not enough of a boost to be worth the expense, IMHO.
Yes, I'd stick with the 4890 for now. It's an easy upgrade when you do feel the need.
I personally do what checkers recommends - a 160 Gb SSD was about $450 some months ago, but it's the only drive I need, for OS plus games plus my not large music & photo collections. I kept my old HDD for a backup drive.
I just want to second this advice. Do not pick option 2. If you really want speed, buy the fastest drive you can. For home use, don't think of raid for performance reasons, it probably won't get you what you are really wanting, and if you choose option 2, it WILL fail, and when it does you'll be back here posting while drowning your sorrows.Originally Posted by mkozlows
If you were hosting a 2 terabyte database for something at work, sure, we could talk RAID setup for performance, but try to avoid that for your home machine.
Here are the 3 builds I'm looking at for my new system:
AMD phenom 2 x4 955 system: $1537.82
GIGABYTE GA-790FXTA-UD5 AM3 AMD 790FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard 186.99
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGMBOX $159.99
2x Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR - $209.98
SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM $25.95
Antec Solo Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $89.99
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.95
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 $119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $104.99
Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2/64GB 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $149.00
SAPPHIRE TOXIC 100282TXSR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - $379.99
Core i5 750 system: $1496.82
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 - Retail $199.99
GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail 104.99
2x Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR - $209.98
SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM $25.95
Antec Solo Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $89.99
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.95
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 $119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $104.99
Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2/64GB 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $149.00
SAPPHIRE TOXIC 100282TXSR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - $379.99
Core i7 860 system $1656.81
Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860 - Retail $279.99
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s - Retail $184.99
2x Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR - $209.98
SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM $25.95
Antec Solo Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $89.99
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.95
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 $119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $104.99
Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2/64GB 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $149.00
SAPPHIRE TOXIC 100282TXSR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - $379.99
More than the IO system is different. Do you want us to rank the systems in order of IO performance, or overall w00tness?
NewEgg deal on SSD
Unfortunately this is only good for the next hour, dunno if you will see the post before then.
At this point, I guess w00tness but if I pick something that is likely to screw with disk performance, I want to know.
Don't know enough about AMD, but your two Intel systems look good. I personally would go for the cheaper one. And for me money on SSD GBs -> well spent, money on even more CPU cycles per second -> a bit less useful.
Why that graphics card at that price?
Thats what they are going for. Video card prices are a bit nuts right now. I will shop around a bit.
Didn't notice that - I just picked up a PCS+ 5850 for 330 ish. It also has a non-standard cooler (and minimal overclock)...
That price is a bit wonky. Yes, it's a 'factory overclocked' card, but really, do you *need* factory overclocking? Are you sure you wouldn't rather have the 5870 for same/slightly higher price (which, btw, runs at much faster speeds than the 5850 & has more "SPU"'s available)?
Yes, get a 5870 instead of a 5850. I'd go with the middle system, except I'd spend more money on a 120gb SSD. If you can't afford that now I'd be tempted to suggest you don't order the SSD until you can, because a 60gb drive will be really annoying to deal with. 120gb is still small, but it's quite usable.
Some of those prices seem really inflated. $210 for 4GB of not-really-fast RAM? You can find it on Newegg for half that. $380 for HD 5850? Not as bad, but you ought to be able to find one for ~$300. [And, as I mentioned earlier, the 5850 isn't that much faster than your 4890.] $120 for a 1TB HDD? Could've sworn you could buy at least a 1.5TB for that price (though maybe it's slower).
I would avoid Kingston's SSDs and stick with Intel, OCZ, or Patriot.
The Solo is a smallish case: not the best choice for jumbo-sized video cards.
It's 8 gigs (4 x 2gb) not 4gigs
The cheapest 5850 available now on newegg is $310 and it is getting bad reviews. I'm thinking about a 5870 but everything adds costs and the total package is still more than I want to pay. Still I get your point.
Yes, it is a higher performance drive and thus more money per gig.
I've been told that alot so I'm not getting that one now for sure. I'm leaning towards not getting an SSD.
I have the same case now and it would fit a 5850. If I get a 5870 I will have to get a larger case.
What I've done is:
* SSD for Windows/frequently used apps (I got an Intel 80GB for like $200; crazy perf boost)
* Raptor for Games, lesser used apps (I had a 144GB sitting around)
* Big TB drive(s) for music, movies, and backups
The nice thing about having the Raptor and SSD be smaller is that I can do full image backups on a 1TB drive.
I still haven't ordered anything. I hate myself. There are just too many options.
Right now I'm focused on a Core i7 system based around the 860.
Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860 - Retail $279.99
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s - Retail $184.99
2x Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR - $104.99
SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM $25.95
2x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.95
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 $119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $104.99
XFX HD-587X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5870 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - $409.99
Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - $159.99
Total: $1711.89
Its still over $200 over budget and I'm not sure about the case and motherboard.
The case is fine. The motherboard is a motherboard - basically irrelevant to system performance and impossible to gauge the reliability of, it's fine too.
I see you're going to wait on the SSD, as I said I think it's a good idea until you can get an OCZ/Intel 120gb one. Working with a smaller system drive is annoying enough to offset the increased awesome an SSD gives.
Is a 650W PSU enough for the video card there?
The system under load will be between 400 and 500 watts. If I was going to go crossfire, I would have to bump it up.
You could save that money by going with the i5 750 and its MB... I'd expect the perceptable difference here to be really minimal.
And of course, hanging on to the 4890 would be a big saving :)
I know. I am even toying with just swapping my dual core (E8400) with a quad core cpu (probably the q9550)
Well, to be blunt... an 8400 and a 4890 is still an excellent system. I wouldn't upgrade at all. What are you doing that taxes this system? It can't be gaming surely. Only the odd outlier would struggle on your machine, no?
The kind of upgrade you're talking about is not going to give you a particularly huge pop (in gaming at least). The only place you'd see a step change in performance (and there only in certain operations) is in adopting a qualitatively different technology... which means the SSD right now.
$0.02
5 Problems with my current system:
1) Desktop performance is slow. From booting up, loading apps, to just navigation, it isn't as snappy as the newer machines I use at work.
2) Converting video downloaded from my TIVO into a windows home media server streamable format takes a long time. Quad core qould be a huge help with that.
3) plugging in usb devices will sometimes cause my computer to reboot.
4) No direct x 11
5) Vista 32 is so two years ago
If you're building this yourself, my suggestion would be to stick with your 4890 for now, drop the second 1TB HDD, upgrade to a 2TB HDD (which should be faster and more cost-effective than 2 x 1TB), and get a 60GB+ SSD for your OS drive (e.g., OCZ Agility 60GB for $160). That should get the total cost below $1,500 and provide you with a nice zippy system. You might not see a big jump in game performance until you upgrade the 4890, but at this point you might as well wait to see how Fermi stacks up; if nothing else, new video cards usually mean new price drops.
Yes, if you're ok with adding parts one at a time (not sure if you are) then moving to Win 7 is a good time to bite the SSD bullet. That's 1 & 5 dealt with :)
I think with the other points, you basically pays your money and takes your choice.
Is there a reason to put Win7 on the SSD? Why not have Windows/Office etc on its own legacy SATA drive, then have the swap file and several games on the SSD, then a Terabyte drive for everything else?
Windows is the component that will benefit most from being on a SSD.
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