Doctor Who - Moffat/Eleventh Doctor Season Thread

[Andrew Mayer]

Van Gogh is definitely one of the best episodes of Doctor Who I think I've ever seen.
Smart, thoughtful, exciting, funny... Great acting, great use of effects and visuals.

Easily the best in the series since The Empty Child.

[Justin Fletcher]

SPOILERS



Wow...gonna have to break from the crowd on this one. I thought it was primarily goofy with some really nice emotional moments here and there, thanks in large part to Tony Curran's performance as Vincent.

Emotionally, I was really glad that the Doctor gave him the chance to see how he would be remembered, but I couldn't reconcile that intellectually given that it was an incredibly stupid and reckless act. I guess the Doctor figured that Vincent's problems would take him down no matter what he saw, but for all the moaning about putting Vincent in harm's way, you'd think the Doctor would be a little more cautious about potentially affecting his (and the Earth's) future. Guess it's a good thing that Vincent didn't spot the birth and death dates on any of the exhibit's signs.

But maybe I'm just grumpy because Amy seems to be slowly sliding into a default state of being obnoxious. Or because someone had a heavy hand on the Swelling Music switch towards the end.

Two other things I definitely liked:

- The Rory subplot.
- Bill Nighy, who was my number one pick to replace Tennant. Was his casting and his Doctor-like outfit a wink at the fact that he had been interested in the role?

[Derek Meister]

I won't say it's a perfect episode, but I really did like the fact that the main plot didn't involve the entire planet being at risk. Again. Smaller stories like this make for a welcome change, and I hope to see more of them in the future.

As for bringing Vincent into the future, I'd argue that it's probably less damaging that when he pretty much created a time loop by giving Shakespeare his own best lines. If anything, I think it ties into the Doctor trying to explore exactly how far he can push time being re-written post-Water of Mars. I think that point is going to be very important in terms of both Rory and the time cracks.

On the scene with Amy crying, I had to wonder if her "forgetting" Rory wasn't actually caused by the cracks themselves, or if her mind just conveniently used that as an excuse to avoid having to deal with his death. Would fit in better with the implied "she needs to remember" plot that seems to be foreshadowed.

[rei]

All that episode needed was Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour.

[mkozlows]

So is Van Gok the British pronunciation, or was that just a weird running joke?

[Brian Rubin]

I really liked the episode, especially when the doctor slipped and called Vincent Rory. ;)

[Supper's Ready]

I'm noticing a trend this season. Episodes which aren't all that special on their own but have great endings. The Beast Below, Amy's Choice and Cold Blood. And now the latest one is more of the same.


SPOILERS

Fighting an invisible monster isn't particularly exciting. If not for the Amy/Vincent interactions I could have fallen asleep. And then we get an ending among the best in the series. I wonder if Moffat tacks these on so that otherwise mediocre or passable episodes don't leave one with a sense of disappointment.

[Justin Fletcher]

If anything, I think it ties into the Doctor trying to explore exactly how far he can push time being re-written post-Water of Mars.

I almost mentioned WoM as the example of why the Doctor should have known better. The end of that episode was played as the Doctor realizing what a huge mistake he had made by crossing the line (bong bong goes the Cloister Bell). But now I'm remembering that plot line was completely dropped from the following Master/Gallifrey kerfluffle.

Maybe you're right about his (or rather, Moffat's) motivation. This series has mentioned several times that there are fluid points in history, which I guess is supposed to explain all of the Doctor's mucking about. I had always thought the rationale was that the Doctor had a certain degree of latitude in his own timeline because he was often a part of historical events (though he didn't know it until it happened). It just seemed that the Vincent trip took that latitude a bit too far.

On the scene with Amy crying, I had to wonder if her "forgetting" Rory wasn't actually caused by the cracks themselves, or if her mind just conveniently used that as an excuse to avoid having to deal with his death. Would fit in better with the implied "she needs to remember" plot that seems to be foreshadowed.

Hmmm. Interesting to see how that plays out. I can't believe we're already closing in on the end of the season.

[Andrew Mayer]

I have to admit that my love of this episode is making me realize that I'd rather see the focusing more on great episodes than the meta-story.

If we had a clear villain it would be okay, but after five seasons of cryptic prophecies, the "suspense" is wearing a little thin for me.

[Hugin]

Van Gogh is definitely one of the best episodes of Doctor Who I think I've ever seen.
Smart, thoughtful, exciting, funny... Great acting, great use of effects and visuals.

Easily the best in the series since The Empty Child.

The problem/villain was incredibly weak and pointless. "Oh, it's a merciless killing machine....me, I know evil when I see it and that thing is evil...oh, except it's blind and scared, so it's okay that it's been wandering around killing people, and we can pet it while it dies."

Amy and The Doctor did very nearly nothing of value in the story. They didn't figure out how to defeat it, nothing. Van Gogh just stabs it and it dies, and he probably would have done that eventually on his own, considering the pitchfork action back at his house. Whatever.

When the story wouldn't have changed to any meaningful degree if your main characters had been deleted from it, that's a crappy story most of the time (it's occasionally fine for stories with an explicit "observer" character who just witnesses and then chronicles events as they unfold around them, certain war stories can work well like that). But mostly, crappy.

And then the ending was just the most pathetically manipulative thing ever. Yes, sure, I found it affecting, but irritatingly so. I mean, it's a cheap ploy they can do over and over "Let's go to the past, find someone awesome but unappreciated in their day, take them to the future and show them how great they turned out in the history books."


It was, frankly, a terrible, paper thin, undercooked, unfinished fragment of an episode with one saving grace, the performance of Tony Curran as Van Gogh. He had the look and he sold Van Gogh's various emotional states well.

Matt Smith is decent enough, and Karen Gillan is appealing as Amy even though Amy isn't very well written, but this season overall is sliding into mediocre/poor territory.

[Andrew Mayer]

The problem/villain was incredibly weak and pointless. "Oh, it's a merciless killing machine....me, I know evil when I see it and that thing is evil...oh, except it's blind and scared, so it's okay that it's been wandering around killing people, and we can pet it while it dies."

Amy and The Doctor did very nearly nothing of value in the story. They didn't figure out how to defeat it, nothing. Van Gogh just stabs it and it dies, and he probably would have done that eventually on his own, considering the pitchfork action back at his house. Whatever.

When the story wouldn't have changed to any meaningful degree if your main characters had been deleted from it, that's a crappy story most of the time (it's occasionally fine for stories with an explicit "observer" character who just witnesses and then chronicles events as they unfold around them, certain war stories can work well like that). But mostly, crappy.

And then the ending was just the most pathetically manipulative thing ever. Yes, sure, I found it affecting, but irritatingly so. I mean, it's a cheap ploy they can do over and over "Let's go to the past, find someone awesome but unappreciated in their day, take them to the future and show them how great they turned out in the history books."


It was, frankly, a terrible, paper thin, undercooked, unfinished fragment of an episode with one saving grace, the performance of Tony Curran as Van Gogh. He had the look and he sold Van Gogh's various emotional states well.

Matt Smith is decent enough, and Karen Gillan is appealing as Amy even though Amy isn't very well written, but this season overall is sliding into mediocre/poor territory.

Here's what I liked:

• The Doctor chases down a problem instead of landing in one.
• The Doctor is actually wise and insightful (in terms of understanding Van Gogh's limitations as a human), rather than yelling at everyone to be just "be better" and tut tutting.
• The monster isn't hell bent on someone's destruction, or unleashed by yet another weird alien.
• Time is shown to be more resilient than fragile.
• Amy's reaction to be being courted.
• The invisibility, which I though was played for fun.
• Tony Curran

It just went against so much of what usually drags the show down, and makes it feel samey wamey. It was also nice to see an episode that has such a strong visual component, rather than the usual "Here's and alien, here's a spaceship" that we usually get.

[Bahimiron]

I really enjoyed it. While the writing this season has been pretty uneven, I'm also enjoying the season. I like Amy, though she's no Donna, she beats the hell out of Rose and thank God the 'Amy loves Doctor' subplot has been stopped in its tracks. I really like Matt Smith. I wouldn't say he's anywhere near my favorite Doctor. In fact, I'm not even sure he's my favorite of the reboot. I was a serious Eccleston booster. But Smith is definitely up there for me. With Eccleston and Troughton.

Also, nice callback to the earlier Doctors when the ID machine recognized him. Between that and the library card, you get the feeling that this season's staff loved themselves some classic Who.

[Andrew Mayer]

Also, nice callback to the earlier Doctors when the ID machine recognized him. Between that and the library card, you get the feeling that this season's staff loved themselves some classic Who.

I'd go further, and say they're really pushing Smith as the "reincarnation" of Hartnell/Troughton.

[Andrew Mayer]

Say what you will about the episode, but I want one of these:

[Eilonwy]

Pronouncing the 'th' in Goth really got to me. God damn English.

It wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't all that great. I liked that the crack didn't show up. I loved the guy playing Vincent. Him tearing up at the end had me tearing up. I loved Amy's hopefulness and then seeing that dashed. I thought the ending was a nice touch.

I hated the whole 'oh no the monster was really scared' shit at the end. How about we just have monsters that are monsters? Not every single fucking thing needs to be pitied. I get it. We need to be sympathetic to things that don't look like us. Doctor Who, you are so subtle! But it seems like it happens every single time.

[Bahimiron]

It doesn't help that it starts with the Doctor saying, "I know the face of evil when I see it."

Well apparently you fucking don't, guy!

[OrfBC]

Weak episode, but I really enjoyed the Starry Night sequence. I could have done with more of that and less running away from furniture falling over.

[Armando Penblade]

It doesn't help that it starts with the Doctor saying, "I know the face of evil when I see it."

Well apparently you fucking don't, guy!

To be fair, he *did*. It was from a race of ravenous, warmongering carnivores that rampage through the cosmos, devouring people whole and generally causing a terrible ruckus. . . "blind, afraid, and lonely" isn't exactly their modus operandi.

[Jon Rowe]

That was one of the best episodes... ever.

Wow... just... wow. No villian, just misunderstood creatures. (both Van Gogh and the alien) No crazy save em all stop of the end of the world plot. Just the harsh realities of time, and how if we try we can make a small bit of difference in the end.

[Eilonwy]

I have a hard time not seeing the creature that went around killing innocent people as a villain, considering if it could see it probably would have been doing the same thing.

Take away the creature? And I think the episode would have been stronger.

[Andrew Mayer]

Take away the creature? And I think the episode would have been stronger.

But not Doctor Who.

[Bahimiron]

But not Doctor Who.

An episode of Doctor Who without the requisite monsters might... wait, my words simply aren't capable of describing this. I think that it might go...

against so much of what usually drags the show down, and makes it feel samey wamey.

[Mike Hussey]

All that episode needed was Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour.

No, it needed David Tennant and Catherine Tate. I've given the new series time in the hope that they may grow on me, but I'm coming to the opinion that I don't like the new Doctor and companion, it could be the scripts and plot lines I suppose, but it appears to me that the characters just aren't right somehow. I'll carry on watching and hope it improves, but at the moment I'm just thinking 'roll on the next Doctor'.

[Eilonwy]

Really? That's surprising to me cause now that Matt Smith is the Doctor, I don't know how I ever could stand Tennant.

Catherine Tate was super awesome though.

[Bahimiron]

If it makes you feel any better, The Half Doctor and Rose are off in some alternate universe seeing the sights and sighting the scenes in their own baby TARDIS. So Tennant still exists ... somewhere!

[Hugin]

An episode of Doctor Who without the requisite monsters might... wait, my words simply aren't capable of describing this. I think that it might go...

So, you want something like The Magic Schoolbus.

[Bahimiron]

So, you want something like The Magic Schoolbus.

You could be so much more reductive, Hugin!

I actually want every episode of Doctor Who to be forty five minutes of the camera focusing on the floor. The carpet should be beige with a low tufted pile. Off camera someone should, in their most monotonous and droning voice, read Richard Branson's autobiography Losing My Virginity.

[Eilonwy]

If it makes you feel any better, The Half Doctor and Rose are off in some alternate universe seeing the sights and sighting the scenes in their own baby TARDIS.

FUCK YOU GUY!

[Brian Rubin]

FUCK YOU GUY!

Pretty much how I feel every day about him. ;)

And the Faux!Doctor and Rose never actually got a little TARDIS baby to grow into a full one, that was something they WANTED to do, but pulled out of actually doing it, so they're both stuck on alternate!Earth.

[Bahimiron]

RTD says it happened and, as we all know, the man's word is gospel. Hopefully this series ends with the cracks consuming Pete's World.