Isn't this game being released elsewhere? Why haven't we heard anything from the UK or Australia, where they are often quick to escalate the ratings?
This reminds me of the controversial Heavy Rain scene where you basically QTE your way through making your female reporter character do a sleazy strip dance for the mobster boss (or something) that you're trying to ingratiate yourself with.
Games that are pushing the envelope by trying to instill genuine discomfort in the player -- by putting the player in situations where their onscreen actions are morally compromised -- are fundamentally more controversial than watching a movie in which a protagonist does the same. Nobody bats an eye anymore at seeing the movie Bad Lieutenant. But if someone puts out Bad Lieutenant: The Game? That could be another matter altogether.
It's also interesting to compare this to Prototype, where you're killing FAR more civilians all the time -- hell, you can't sneeze without killing civilians in that game. Yet no one raised a stink over that, probably because it was absurdist SF rather than realistic militarism. And what about the GTA games, in which killing civilians is only mildly discouraged, and beating up innocent shop owners is downright encouraged? How different is this from that? The GTA rage has ebbed (somewhat), but we haven't had a good morally indignant cultural flareup this holiday season yet; maybe Activision is expecting to get marketing bennies from this....
Modern Warfare was a comfortably jingoistic "everyone you're shooting deserves death" environment. Sticking this total mindfuck right at the start of the sequel is definitely going to piss a lot of people off. Wonder if they'll pull it before release.
I hate ignorant crap like that.
Apparently what you see and what you hear and the things you physically act out have absolutely no influence on your behavior.
This is news to every fucking advertising executive on planet earth, whose multi-billion dollar businesses work purely on the basis that this is bollox.
Am I the only one who understands that I can conciously tell fiction from reality, but my subconcious is still affected?
Is "kind of sick" the line of AO? That seems pretty vague.If you don't find this kind of sick, do you think anything is worthy of an AO-rating or capable of offending you?
That's really a great point. The difference is CoD is serious business I guess. At most it's insensitive, but maybe within the context the game it isn't. Maybe it gives the player more urge afterward to stop such an event. Beyond that, meh.Originally Posted by Repoman
Really, ratings aren't good at telling you how sensitive a game or movie is about its material. That's way too subtle, with too many differing opinions to be useful. I really think the ESRB's little descriptors are about as good as that gets and again, they only in a limited sense judge how the content is handled (cartoon violence -> intense violence). I don't think single rating or descriptor can accurately judge what's in good taste.
I dont think any reasonable person believes that playing this game will make them into a psychotic mass murderer. Likewise everyone understands how this could be seen (by some people) as tasteless, reveling in tragedy and inappropriate for some people.
Where exactly the game falls on the spectrum between those two sides is an individual decision. There isn't an inherent right or wrong answer. But hopefully each side can see the others viewpoint, even if they think it is overshadowed by their own positives or negatives.
I'm not offended by it - I find it disturbing which I'm sure is the intention -- but I think it's nutty that people don't think it's more offensive than bare breasts in the Witcher (or any pornography, for that matter), and I do think that potential purchasers should be aware of the content - you may be disappointed you're not going to be surprised, but I suspect a lot of people have weaker stomachs they you or I and are going to be unhappily surprised and offended.Does the scene offend you personally, or are you reacting out of fear of public reaction?
I am actually perhaps more likely to get this game now, when I previously wasn't interested, provided it otherwise gets good reviews - I somewhat feel like rewarding risk-takers. But hell, I liked Irreversible.
Ok, I misunderstood the point you were making. When I said that giving it an AO would be treating it like it's XXX, I was talking about the actual effect on its retail distribution.. not rating it on some personal offensive scale.Originally Posted by Desslock
I will say a bare boob and that scene are both equal in the sense that they probably shouldn't be broadcast on the giant monitors of a sports event or in times square, but I don't really see that as judging how offensive the material is.
I vote for more boobs and less glorifying terrorism, if thats an option?
I'm still waiting on a true sex simulator. Mass Effect was just one big tease. ;)
bahimiron raises him sword "forsooth milord!!! maney a foul draggon wil be slayd today ^_^ "
I think Adree deserves more praise, since he's the only person who responded to the most dumbshit thing said so far in this thread.Originally Posted by Adree
This is the same company that made one of the most sobering sequences about the horror of a nuclear bomb I've ever seen in a game, I'm pretty sure they are up to the task of putting what that video shows in an appropriate context.
If you want get people to understand atrocities, there a LOTS of way to show it without actually taking part in it.
You play from the point of the terrorist for shock value is my guess. I saw the translation of the text and while I find that interesting, I still find the content somewhat...extreme...for my tastes. Though, maybe when played, I wouldn't feel that way. I'm doubting it though.
I'm not choosing for anyone else or even saying I won't play it. I'm just saying, that video, much like the Saw movies referenced earlier, goes for shock value.
Yeah, like anything like that had a chance of making it to release without being spoiled. Plus, it's a good discussion and I'll really interested to see how it turns out for MW2.Frankly, the thing that's upset me throughout this affair is the fact that the leak has now spoiled that scene, and robbed me of the chance to experience it without expecting it. It's powerful, disturbing, and even revolting - and I can only think that playing through that without expecting it would have left a powerful emotional impact. We've all lost that opportunity, now. Thanks, douchebag French leaker.
Myself, I'm for art, in it's many forms, even if it may or may not be for me. American society doesn't always see it that way, especially when it comes to "murder simulators".
You seem dead set on assuming that Infinity Ward has decided to start taking a page from the Dante's Inferno playbook, and go for shock value marketing. Aside from this being a fairly ridiculous notion, this line of thought forces you to entirely ignore the fact that the unpleasant feelings that video stirred in you was the god damn point. It wasn't an accidental consequence of a failed attempt to 'be edgy' or 'shock you for marketing', it was to make you feel exactly what you felt. Horror, revulsion, uneasiness - it was to make you feel disturbed and uncomfortable. Do you really contend that you would have gotten that reaction - or any significant reaction - from beginning the game in the role of, as some have repeatedly suggested, a nameless cop or security guard? The only emotional reaction most of us would have had to that would be frustration that the sequence was coded to be unwinnable for the guard.
Just received a DMCA notice. Had to take down the video being hosted on the site. However, people are still uploading it to MetaCafe/YouTube so I just embedded one of those. If you wanted to link to the video simply use one of the other links.
"Civilian killing simulator"? What games did you have in mind when you wrote that? Name another game that (assuming the above thoughts) REQUIRES you to kill civilians? Sure, the player loses his life -- or is knocked unconscious or something -- but the others get away free at least partially due to your help. The only way to pull this off would be to have no "win" state for the terrorists.
This should have been a cut scene (IMHO, of course).
Last edited by BigWeather; 10-27-2009 at 05:18 PM.
I really must disagree with you entirely, on every point. Being stuck in a no-win situation is not a novel experience for most of us, and the primary emotion it conjures up is frustration. If you want to argue that you don't want games to make you feel bad, okay, go ahead - but I really think it's ridiculous to argue that they shouldn't have the potential to do so, that designers shouldn't ever seek to evoke those emotions, or that they should be stopped from doing so. To do so is to argue for the permanent juvenilization of our medium.