Reply With QuoteI can't imagine us getting into a flameware over this. Post revolution China became an example of authoritarian tyrrany. Who would want to see China conquer anyone else?
I don't think we've had a good flamewar that's involved China yet.
So, I'll get the ball started...
Who in their right mind thinks that Taiwan, a sovereign state in all but name with a democratically elected government, should be assimilated into corrupt and utterly undemocratic People's Republic of China?
I can't imagine us getting into a flameware over this. Post revolution China became an example of authoritarian tyrrany. Who would want to see China conquer anyone else?
Hitler.
Fuck, quatoria jumped in before I could end this madness before it starts... :evil:
Not as if it matters, Kool. I can't think of anybody on the forum who'd take the "YES! CHINA SHOULD CRUSH TAIWAN BENEATH THEIR HEEL," side of the argument. What's happening there is a tragedy.
YES! CHINA SHOULD CRUSH TAIWAN BENEATH THEIR HEEL!
I was gonna post this hours ago, but I thought, "Man, that'd be pretty gay."Originally Posted by Anders Hallin
Maggie Thatcher.
She sold out Hong Kong after all...
Look here, if Taiwan is taken over by the mainlanders, what happens to MOTHERBOARD PRICES!? That's the real issue! Keep Taiwan free!!
I've got a related question that might be a bit harder to answer pleasantly. Who in their right mind thinks any country other than the PRC is going to have the final say in whether such an assimilation occurs?
I do. If China decided to forcibly assimilate Taiwan, I think there's a better-than-even chance the US would get involved, depending on the administration. Total conjecture on my part, but if I had to lay money, that's where it would be.
What makes you think that Taiwan is uncorrupt?
Whoa, whoa, whoa... WHAT?
Really? Involved in what form? I sincerely cannot imagine the US taking a concrete action in that direction. I mean, I also have difficulty imagining what sort of sabre-rattling bullshit would spur a Chinese invasion, but I am pretty certain that should it happen there is not a whole lot that can be done about it, unless you are advocating the use of the nuclear "option". Invading China, or even thinking about invading China, is a lot more to manage than invading pissant Middle Eastern countries.
And really, what was that about Margaret Thatcher?
I agree that invading China would be nuts, but wouldn't the task be to keep China from successfully invading Taiwan? They would have to move their troops and material and ongoing supplies across the strait.
Well, yeah. But if you don't think the Chinese would regard that as a formal declaration of war, that is where we part company. Our naval outlook in the region would also be somewhat bleak, since the Chinese have spent their R&D funds on inexpensive defensive countermeasures to our hugely expensive offensive capability.
Moreover, while China has no real projection capability, and Taiwan would hardly be a quick n' easy invasion prospect for them, I have a feeling that when most of a country's military resources are aimed in that direction for the last 50 years, they can come up with some interesting options.
What, you think the citizens of Hong Kong particularly *wanted* to be governed by a Chinese puppet?Whoa, whoa, whoa... WHAT?
Sure it would be war. I assumed the asking nicely option would be out if the PRC were already invading. It would be a very dangerous situation if the US chose to defend Taiwan. But I still think there would be options between doing nothing and nuking or attempting to conquer mainland China. The UN forces didn't try to conquer the PRC after it intervened in Korea.Well, yeah. But if you don't think the Chinese would regard that as a formal declaration of war, that is where we part company.
I guess it comes down to the US Navy's chances of wrecking an invasion attempt without using nukes. Is there good reason to be confident one way or the other? What are some of these countermeasures you mentioned?
I thought this came up a while back. I found some article that said China wouldn't be able to invade Tiawan until 2020, and this was assuming the US abandons Tiawan. The problem is that China doesn't have crap for amphibious operations, really, and they're not getting much better at it.
Tiawan, Kashmir, and North Korea are the only remaining places a nuclear exchange could actually break out, I think.
The US and China get along decently right now, especially in trade. I doubt they're going to do anything that would upset that. Taiwan also has a pretty decent defense capabliliy, especially in aircraft and naval forces.
No one. We're sure as hell not going to war with them over Taiwan, and the odds of the Bush administration imposing economic sanctions on China are virtually nil.I've got a related question that might be a bit harder to answer pleasantly. Who in their right mind thinks any country other than the PRC is going to have the final say in whether such an assimilation occurs?
It was founded by the Chinese Nationalists who managed to motivate a Communist revolution, how could it be corrupt?
You're really on a roll today. Of course, the Clinton administration would have done all that, in between rounding up Al Qaeda and discovering the cure for cancer.
According to the 2002 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index, Taiwan ranks 29th out of 102 in last corrupt countries.
Finland is number 1.
Canada is number 7.
The United States is 16.
China is 59.
Bangladesh is 102.
I know Taiwan was founded by the ultra-corrupt KMT, but 50 years means for a lot of changes.
The odds of ANY US administration imposing trade sanctions or taking military action against China is virtually nil. Better now? Is there some secret codeword you'd like me to use to indicate that I'm simply referring to the current administration and not aiming a specific critique at Bush himself? Or am I forbidden from uttering His holy name? Jesus christ, Lizard.You're really on a roll today. Of course, the Clinton administration would have done all that, in between rounding up Al Qaeda and discovering the cure for cancer.
Yes. That is much better. You don't think there is a teensy difference between the two allegations, substantively?
That is really interesting. I was reflexively inclined to agree with the view of Taiwanese corruption initially posited.
Somebody joined the "Word of the Month Club" recently! :lol:
Recently? I've been pedantic for years now. Decades, even. But I'll make a point of including some subtitles for you... :)
That will come in handy on the short bus to Kmart when I buy new underwear. :lol:
That corruption index is based on public opinion surveys, so I don't know if I'd put too much stock in it.
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