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Thread: Guild Wars 2?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewF View Post
    Fixed.

    That blog entry and interview just make everything sound so incredible. And my god, a 10 slot skill bar! I also really like that the first 5 skills are weapon-based... so, question about that, Eric. Would weapons of the same class but differing stats, like, say a you equip a Barbed Crystal Sword of Warding. Would the weapon then equip a bleed skill and perhaps an armor-buffing shout, vs a Furious Longsword of Fortitude? Would they equip different skills despite both being swords of the same class?
    No, if they were both weapons from the same category they would give you the same three skills. A warrior using a one handed sword will have the same three skills with any sort of one handed sword. The idea is that we give every player a basic attack combo that works well together. A good way to think of it is that there are predetermined skill sets for each profession that you choose by equipping a weapon or set of weapons. You actually have about the same amount of choice as you did in GW1 with 5 skills that you can choose and then 2 weapon sets that you can swap between which is effectively 7 things to mix and match vs. the 8 you had in Guild Wars 1. If you took skill builds and rated their effectiveness on a scale of 1-10 what we are trying to do is cut out the 1-5 while leaving the 5-10 possibilities intact.

  2. #122
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    Recently loaded up GW1 and I'm impressed how well the graphics hold up after about 5 years. Can't really say that about most other games like Everquest 2/WoW. I guess the 3D technology used is nothing fancy but there is a cleanness to the graphics. The character models look better (hotter) than brand new games like Mytheon (which is sort of trying to copy GW gameplay).

  3. #123
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    This is probably silly, but do you know what the one thing was that really blew me away about GW when it originally came out? The fact that I could minimize and maximize it as easily and quickly as Internet Explorer. I mean this was the day and age when Alt-tabbing half the time caused my games to crash or would take ages getting into/out of.

    I still think GW was a technical marvel. The game didn't really grab me due its instanced nature, but I'm very very excited for GW2.

  4. #124
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    It's still fairly impressive. I have to keep World of Warcraft in windowed mode because of the amount of time I spend punching things outside of it on the second screen. Playing a game in fullscreen mode is right out for me in most cases.

  5. #125
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    I guess I'm in the minority in liking the instanced nature, but still curious to see what GW2 has to offer. Looks interesting so far, and as with the first, appreciate the no monthly fee.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFlannum View Post
    No, if they were both weapons from the same category they would give you the same three skills. A warrior using a one handed sword will have the same three skills with any sort of one handed sword. The idea is that we give every player a basic attack combo that works well together. A good way to think of it is that there are predetermined skill sets for each profession that you choose by equipping a weapon or set of weapons. You actually have about the same amount of choice as you did in GW1 with 5 skills that you can choose and then 2 weapon sets that you can swap between which is effectively 7 things to mix and match vs. the 8 you had in Guild Wars 1. If you took skill builds and rated their effectiveness on a scale of 1-10 what we are trying to do is cut out the 1-5 while leaving the 5-10 possibilities intact.
    Gotcha! So there are 3 skills determined by the weapon type and 2 by the race.

    To be honest, I still can't see how the weapon+racial skills will manage to even remotely allow for the huge amount of builds born from the primary/secondary combinations.

    Using random GW1 examples: you can probably build a Bunny Thumper equipping a Ranger with a hammer (assuming there are Rangers and the three hammer skills form a k/d combo or sth), but I don't see how this system will allow for something like a R/N toucher. Or even a simpler example: the myriad of utility secondaries employed in GW1 builds. Given that the races are rather limited in count, the only way to achieve such a diversity would be tons of different weapon types. I can't really imagine that happening, though.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyride View Post
    Recently loaded up GW1 and I'm impressed how well the graphics hold up after about 5 years. Can't really say that about most other games like Everquest 2/WoW. I guess the 3D technology used is nothing fancy but there is a cleanness to the graphics. The character models look better (hotter) than brand new games like Mytheon (which is sort of trying to copy GW gameplay).
    The graphics in GW have always been really spectacular, but the animation is sadly deficient. I'm really hoping GW2 has some substantial improvements in that department.

  8. #128
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    It's totally silly of me, but the one thing that breaks my immersion in GW is not being able to jump. Even the tiniest of ledges and hillocks become a weird reminder that I'm playing a game.

  9. #129
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    Scourge - So your argument is that it might cut down a little on gimmick builds in PvP? My heart bleeds. :P

    In the heyday of GvG, there weren't really a myriad of secondaries employed. Monk and Mesmer was pretty much 90% of everyone's secondary, with the other 10% being Me/X fastcasters and Mo/E with glyphs. W/Mos, R/Mos, E/Me and E/Mo, Mo/E or /Me...

    Interesting that they didn't talk about fixed skills for casters much. Presumably by taking a Frost Staff for an Elementalist you'll get a set of basic Frost skills, and can swap to a Fire Staff, for example?

  10. #130
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    There are a few issue I have with Guild War that are mostly related to animation and control.

    Most of the skills have a prolong animation where player is just lock in place and unable to move during those animation, even the "instant" spell/skill require you to stand and perform that spell animation instead casting it on the run.

    that's one big reason I think WoW's combat feels more active/fun, I can move around and use most of the skills, animation doesn't overwrite my control of my character.

    most of the older asian mmos have the same problem like in Aion/Lineage, they went for the awesome looking animation, but I feel like I don't have control over my character at all.

    some of the newer MMO from Korea is moving away from it(C9 for one), towards more active combat where player isn't locked in place during skill usage, much more freedom for the player.

    Hopefully GW2 will do the same as well as next Blizzard mmo.
    Last edited by idrisz; 04-28-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #131
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    @AaronSofaer: You do realize that a GW consisting only of balanced builds will be boring as hell, right?

    And you don't get the utility part right. A secondary Me doesn't mean that every X/Me will use the same utility secondary skills.

    Quick example:
    E/Mo using Heal Party is one kind of utility
    E/Mo utilizing Judge's Insight is another
    E/Mo with Convert Hexes is a third
    E/Mo with Draw Conditions is a fourth
    and so on.

    @idrisz: how is casting a 3 second spell after another 3 second spell in WoW any "active"?

  12. #132
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    - Interesting about the dedicated slots like one for healing. How about rez? Does everybody just have a rez sig by default?
    - Will the GW2 engine be able to truly render interiors? And I'm not talking about just really high ceiling cavern/dungeons.
    - Super excited about all this new info. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    @idrisz: how is casting a 3 second spell after another 3 second spell in WoW any "active"?
    1. you have a bar telling you how long before the spell is done in WOW, compare to just watching my monk jerking off the staff in GW.

    2. You can stop casting the spell by moving in WOW which you can't in GW(which is what I hate).

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by idrisz View Post
    1. you have a bar telling you how long before the spell is done in WOW, compare to just watching my monk jerking off the staff in GW.

    2. You can stop casting the spell by moving in WOW which you can't in GW(which is what I hate).
    1. You have a casting bar in GW for anything longer than 1 sec
    2. You can cancel all spell casts in GW by moving

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    1. You have a casting bar in GW for anything longer than 1 sec
    2. You can cancel all spell casts in GW by moving
    1. if the spell isn't instant, it should always have a cast bar, inconsistency in gameplay is somewhat stupid.

    2. You have cast time and you have the skill animation, except there are skills where skill animation is longer than the actual cast time list in the info.

    So you assume this skill is 1/4 second cast, you should be able to move after 1/4 seconds, but in reality you are stuck in that spot until your animation plays out.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by idrisz View Post
    1. if the spell isn't instant, it should always have a cast bar, inconsistency in gameplay is somewhat stupid.

    2. You have cast time and you have the skill animation, except there are skills where skill animation is longer than the actual cast time list in the info.

    So you assume this skill is 1/4 second cast, you should be able to move after 1/4 seconds, but in reality you are stuck in that spot until your animation plays out.
    1. Yes. But seeing short cast bars is really only useful when watching your opponents and you DO get these.
    2. That's aftercast delay and is fixed (not animation dependent). It has certain gameplay implications and a case can be built both anti- and pro-.

  17. #137
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    This is the one game I am truly looking forward to. The team battles in GW had that perfect mix of inventiveness, comfortable group recuirements, strategy, short duration and action. I'm a little sad to see the bottom half of the builds being cut off though. If you put a little effort in it you could come up with decent underused builds and get som play out of them before they got hit by the nerf hammer. Most of the builds didn't work but I found it hugely enjoyable to try to think up different build combinations, and in the early days of TA competition was forgiving enough that you could be somewhat successfull even with suboptimal builds.

  18. #138
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    aftercast delay is fixed in GW2 or in GW1, last time I played GW1 was about 3-4 months ago, and it wasn't fix then.

  19. #139
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    Fixed like in "has a fixed duration".
    It is important gameplay-wise in preventing huge damage spikes in a very short time, or insta-damage unload after teleporting.

  20. #140
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    should change it to something similar to Global cooldown on skill instead remove player control to prevent damage spikes.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFlannum View Post
    No, if they were both weapons from the same category they would give you the same three skills. A warrior using a one handed sword will have the same three skills with any sort of one handed sword. The idea is that we give every player a basic attack combo that works well together. A good way to think of it is that there are predetermined skill sets for each profession that you choose by equipping a weapon or set of weapons. You actually have about the same amount of choice as you did in GW1 with 5 skills that you can choose and then 2 weapon sets that you can swap between which is effectively 7 things to mix and match vs. the 8 you had in Guild Wars 1. If you took skill builds and rated their effectiveness on a scale of 1-10 what we are trying to do is cut out the 1-5 while leaving the 5-10 possibilities intact.
    Ah, gotcha. I had it backwards -- I thought the weapon filled 5 slots with skills, not 3, and that you only had 3 wild card slots to equip your own skills with + 1 healing + 1 elite (10 total). It makes more sense to have the weapon just equip the first 3 initial skills and allow 5 wild card skills instead. I like that a lot better. System sounds great!

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewF View Post
    Ah, gotcha. I had it backwards -- I thought the weapon filled 5 slots with skills, not 3, and that you only had 3 wild card slots to equip your own skills with + 1 healing + 1 elite (10 total). It makes more sense to have the weapon just equip the first 3 initial skills and allow 5 wild card skills instead. I like that a lot better. System sounds great!
    I don't think you've got it just yet. You've got 10 skills.

    1-5 these are determined by what you're holding in your hands. A two handed weapon will give you five skills. A one handed weapon will give you three but whatever you're holding in your off hand gives the remaining two. You can mix and match between main and offhand items to get different combinations. The skills you get are determined by weapon type and profession.

    6 - Healing skill. You can choose between several different healing skills. These always have some sort of self heal component to them but can vary wildly other than that. The pool you can choose from is determined by your profession and race.

    7-9 - Utility skills. These can cover a wide range of different effects from being purely offensive to support. You get dozens of skills to choose from here, once again determined by your profession and race.

    10 - Elite skill. This is a big badass infrequently used skill that has a dramatic impact on a fight. Again you can choose between several of these from a pool determined by your race and profession.

    So think of it this way. You've got 5 slots that you can slot freely with the caveat that you have to bring one heal and one elite skill. Then you have a package of five skills that is determined by the weapon set you bring. Most professions can equip two weapon sets and switch freely between them in combat even stringing together combinations of attacks between them. That means you have access to 15 skills at any given time and you make a minimum of 7 choices (max of 9) to determine what those skills are. Yes, we restrict some of your choices to particular categories but there is still choice there. If you use the CCG paradigm to explain our skill system we went from a system with almost no deck building restrictions to one that has (what seem to us) some pretty necessary and sane deck building restrictions. The new system is much friendlier to new players and to those who either aren't interested in the deck building aspect or are simply not good at it. It will also allow us to more easily balance the game and maintain that balance. It still allows advanced players to come up with literally hundreds of combinations to trash their opponents with.

    Hope that helped!

  23. #143
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    I'm sure you guys realize that you have a hard road ahead in getting people to understand this system, and I appreciate your willingness to go through it here.

    You haven't released the list of available professions, but I really hope you kept the mesmer. All MMOs have some kind of debuffing class, but playing a mesmer, as silly as it sounds, really made me feel like I was getting something over on people (even if those people were usually NPCs, since I mostly stayed away from PvP). In no other game have I had the experience of putting together a few skills that all seem pretty innocuous on their own but can be devastating when used together properly. I will be pretty disappointed if I can't run around in a silly purple suit and a party mask come release.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damien Neil View Post
    The graphics in GW have always been really spectacular, but the animation is sadly deficient. I'm really hoping GW2 has some substantial improvements in that department.
    Checkout the Elementalist spell videos. Looks spectacular imo.

    http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-gam.../elementalist/

  25. #145
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    Oh, wow Eric. That's much deeper than the GW1 system and I like it a lot -- having an off-hand actually changes your skill setup? Interesting. I'm really digging this idea.

    So, maybe you don't want to go into this, but since we have characters like the Assassin, does that mean we can rule out off-hand weaponry? Assassins were sadly disappointing (not because of their usefulness) in GW1, but mostly because we could not change their off-hand to a different kind of dagger.

    So, big question: will there be true duel-wielding, where each hand is unique? Or are you sticking with the GW1 Assassin formula?

    (Sorry, it's just that I've dumped about 1000 hours, minimum, into GW -- if we count the first beta weekends. I'm dying to know what I get to do next. Oh, and please tell me the Dervish will return.)

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFlannum View Post
    6 - Healing skill. You can choose between several different healing skills. These always have some sort of self heal component to them but can vary wildly other than that. The pool you can choose from is determined by your profession and race.
    Everyone has healing skills? This sort of worries me, since I love playing support and healing classes in multiplayer games. The one thing that's notable about Guild Wars for me is that it had the best healing system of any game I've ever seen. The sheer number of different skill combinations meant that healing other players never got boring. I guess I may be hitting the limits of what you can talk about, but will there still be a place in the game for people who specialize in healer and support roles?

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewF View Post
    Oh, wow Eric. That's much deeper than the GW1 system and I like it a lot -- having an off-hand actually changes your skill setup? Interesting. I'm really digging this idea.
    It honestly does look less deep to me, but oh well. Unless, of course, there is a truckload of racial skills to choose from in slots 7-10 (in addition to profession skills).
    I also find the part about how what's in weapon skill slots is determined by "weapon type and profession" confusing. Shouldn't that be by "weapon type" only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Ford
    Everyone has healing skills? This sort of worries me, since I love playing support and healing classes in multiplayer games. The one thing that's notable about Guild Wars for me is that it had the best healing system of any game I've ever seen. The sheer number of different skill combinations meant that healing other players never got boring. I guess I may be hitting the limits of what you can talk about, but will there still be a place in the game for people who specialize in healer and support roles?
    The healing skill slot is probably there in order to help in soloing and exploration. If GW2 is anything like GW1 you can't survive on one healing skill in a serious fight.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    I also find the part about how what's in weapon skill slots is determined by "weapon type and profession" confusing. Shouldn't that be by "weapon type" only?
    I would assume that, say, a ranger who equips a one handed sword will have more finesse skills and a warrior would have more brute strength skills. Or something like that. Or there could be overlap in the weapon/profession skills, but not 100%. We'll have to see.

  29. #149
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    Very cool information, and quite a lot of it. After a long period of relatively few dribs and drabs of information, we're finally hearing more about the game. Additionally, it sounds as if the team is talking about what they have already in the game, not what they hope they will have by launch--a nice way to manage player expectations.

    I have to admit that after seeing the elementalist video, with its very vivid, visceral combat (I've always enjoyed combat that I can "feel"), the first question after the "wow! gosh! cool!" reaction was, "is this game going to make my video card cry?" followed quickly by "just what kind of computer will be needed to run this game?"

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceolstan View Post
    I have to admit that after seeing the elementalist video, with its very vivid, visceral combat (I've always enjoyed combat that I can "feel"), the first question after the "wow! gosh! cool!" reaction was, "is this game going to make my video card cry?" followed quickly by "just what kind of computer will be needed to run this game?"
    Those were my concerns as well. I've always loved the art style of GW and even though it's an older MMO, it's one of the prettier ones I've played. I'd hate to have to drop everything down to mud to make GW2 playable.

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