I guess the drug trade is under control there so the SWAT team can help out in other spots.
That's a pretty soft penalty to start shooting over. I wonder if there's more to the story than that, because your version sure seems like the shooter/guy running the gambling operation was being silly.Originally Posted by Anti-Bunny
I'm guessing if they had a warrant good to go that night for a drug operation the team might have had to prioritize.
Apparently he thought the game was about to be robbed because either the police didn't identify themselves before kicking his door down or he failed to hear them do so. His words on learning that it was the police indicated that he probably wouldn't have reacted that way if he knew it was 'just' a police raid.
I'm not inclined to believe him.
It also should be noted that poker games like this are commonly robbed. They're a juicy target because the players don't report the robbery for obvious reasons.. Sort of like why drug dealers and buyers or prostitutes don't report crimes.
Unless you have a couple of cheerleaders chained up in your basement, I'm struggling to think why any rational individual would get into a police shootout at his home address over a $100 fine.
Even if they confiscate the rake, which they do... (Cops typically confiscate ALL money on the premises, which goes to their department as forfeiture. It was $4,785 in this instance) it still doesn't make any sense to try and start a shoot out with the police. No knock raids are pretty standard stuff, this is not exactly the first time someone fired at cops because they thought they were being robbed.
Last edited by Anti-Bunny; 11-06-2010 at 05:30 PM. Reason: (edit)
Yea, I pretty much just said this.
Maybe the 70 year old guy is losing his marbles, kinda like the shooter of this guy (asian kid named Yoshihiro Hattori, while he was in a tuxedo and made the mistake of ringing the wrong doorbell).
Then I'm not sure what he said that you didn't believe in your post earlier.
When police break up an illegal poker den, they don't just confiscate "the rake" - they take all of the money on the premises, which can easily be hundreds of thousands depending upon the setup. Players don't just lose the "$100 fine" - they lose all the money they've bought in for, which obviously could be substantial.
It sounds like this one was pretty small potatoes - but there's usually also a lot of drugs at illegal poker dens, even if the premises doesn't sanction dealing.
Yeah, I don't know what there is to disbelieve there, other than that a straightforward police station profit incentive can be so obviously linked to aggressive enforcement of unimportant laws. And I mean disbelief in the "no fucking way, how could this not be seen as a disaster waiting to happen?"
Last edited by Lizard_King; 11-07-2010 at 07:26 PM.
I've been at two poker games that got robbed. I didn't know about one robbery cause I was out in the back playing while the house was being robbed. The other robbery was a bit scary but the robber fled without robbing anything after the cops were called. The cops were actually very cool about the whole thing. The even went along with the fiction that we were playing a tournament (which is legal in my state). On the other hand the wife was upset enough that she made her husband shut down the game.
I can't believe this has gotten to two pages without a single reference to Guys and Dolls.
Explain?
Have you seen the movie? A large portion of the plot is dedicated to the fact that due to the rigorous police work...
the floating craps game has to take place in a sewer so that they don't get shaken down by the cops.
There are many quotes which would be amusingly relevant and referential to the fact that the cops are so busy shaking down poker games rather than doing useful things, like not shaking down poker games, because seriously, fuck our puritanical society.
Two friends of mine were in a pretty big game that got robbed. The robbers brandished guns, made all of the players remove their clothes, and then took their clothes with them. It's a pretty terrifying story.
They're branching out now from just card games, to battle Chess players.
After the challenge to the Washington State law criminalizing online poker was rejected by the Washington Supreme Court, both Pokerstars and Full Tilt no longer allow Washington residents to play on their sites.
So if you live in Washington, congrats, you now live in the only democratic place in the world where it's illegal to be outplayed at a game.
Good ESPN article here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker...ary&id=5808565
Crazy quote from the Democrat Senator who organized the ban:
So offensive on so many levels."I just think some of these arguments are utter nonsense," Prentice told ESPN.com. "You mean you're going to move so you can play poker? Gee, lots of luck in your life. … I have nothing against card playing. That's fine. If you want to do that, but I'm sure not going to worry about someone … you know. Let them go pump gas.
No comment on Harry Reid's bill? (which has now died).
It seemed awful to me, but reaction seems mixed. To summarize:
- it would formally permit online poker in the U.S., but only permit the large casinos to host it (gee, wonder if that has anything to do with Harry Reid's constituency?). So sites like Full Tilt and Pokerstars would be banned from the U.S., even though they're not currently -- so it would be a step backwards in a significant way.
- all online poker would be banned in the U.S. for a "blackout period" of 15 months to 2 years. No poker, nada. Apparently to permit regulation to get established and for applications to be processed. But, probably not coincidentally, it would immediately cut the business of current large poker sites in half, and presumably make it more likely for them to work with established Vegas casinos.
- I'm glad it died - it seemed like a pretty terrible "cure" -- and the idea of separate Vegas casinos each having their own online sites just seems stupid and a huge step backwards from the "mature" large players currently, namely pokerstars and Full Tilt. And the idea of people being unable to play poker for any period of time just seems fundamentally anti-American.
The bill just seems like it was a conflation of the worst aspects of U.S. politics -- special interest groups bribing politicians and cynically aligning with prohibition-era religious right zealotry/leftist paternalism to impose constraints on individual freedom for financial gain.
Unfortunately, every indication suggests a similar bill will arise from the ashes - and if not, the status quo may shift for the worse for Americans anyway, as the Feds may declare online poker illegal and start trying to shut out Full Tilt and Pokerstars, etc. (and make it even more difficult for Americans to conduct financial transactions with poker sites). Bah, so frustrating.
Yeah, I was excited when I first saw a bill on this, then when I saw Reid's name on it, my heart sank. Sure enough, it was a take-care-of-my-big-money-buddies bill. It might as well be a mob move: "I'll kill online poker in the U.S. and then make sure you get all of it when it comes back, just make sure the envelopes of cash keep coming."
I love that line at the bottom.
gg protectionism.
Oh, the astroturfing.
So, apparently the Baltimore Police consider a $65 buy to be 'high stakes'.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...0,247096.story
Playing poker festers into other crimes! Like.. uh.. Who knows, grab your M16's and flashbangs boys!Baltimore County police arrested five men after an undercover detective infiltrated an illegal high-stakes poker game in Edgemere, records show.
Police say "Texas Hold 'Em" games were held regularly at the Lynch Point Social Club in the 3100 block of Roger Road, where organizers were making as much as $1,500 in profit a night, according to charging documents.
After receiving a tip, officers conducted surveillance at the club and later sent an undercover detective inside, who participated in a game with a $65 buy-in. The detective played for hours — leaving after he lost all his chips, records show.
A tactical unit conducted a raid on the club Feb. 11, seizing poker chips, electronic gambling machines and a surveillance system, among other items. Forty-one people were inside at the time of the raid.
Michael Benton Gilbert, 35, of the 3100 block of Lynch Road admitted to running the poker games and was given money by the club to pay off winners, police wrote in charging documents. He is charged with several counts related to organizing an illegal gambling operation, as well unlawfully possessing a slot machine, and was released from jail on his own recognizance, records show . . .
"These are financial crimes, and while it might appear on the surface that it's harmless, it festers into other crimes," said Lt. Robert McCullough, a county police spokesman.
Reached for comment, Gilbert referred questions to his attorney, Andrew Alperstein, who said Gilbert had no criminal record and "looks forward to resolving the case."
"In some of these types of cases, police have found other things, like drugs, or things of that nature, but there's none of that in this case," Alperstein said. "This is a wholesome group of working people playing poker. [Gilbert] is just a regular guy, has no record and supports his family."
Poker is the gateway drug to other dangerous gambling habits, like bingo, betting on the horses, or playing the lottery. Either that or the guys who run the casino in Maryland hate competition.
Police break into homes, often find recreational drugs. Everything is now justified, arch-villains!
H.
According to various posts on the 2+2 forum that has been tracking this, not only were the domains seized, but changes were made to at least Pokerstars backend disallowing people in the US from registering for any real money games. Looks like some serious shit going down.
If you have money tied up in any of these sites and you're in the USA, last week would have been a great time to withdraw it. AFAIK you can still withdraw today but I'm sure you'll be fighting hundreds/thousands of other people in the poker site equivalent of a bank run.
This ... just sucks.
justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/April11/scheinbergetalindictmentpr.pdf
How can they seize UB, isn't it based on Indian land in Canada?
Most of these are off shore (I play on Pokerstars.) I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how this works. I don't even know how laws like this are constitutional or at the very least allowable under international law (and in my state poker is legal.)
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