Toning down mature games like Soul Caliber IV

[jpinard]

Almost this entire week I had my nieces over and yesterday we wanted to play some fighting games as we'd spent the rest of our time with board games. It'd been a long time since I played Soul Caliber IV - and when we loaded it up to select characters I was embarassed at lack of attire on some of the ladies. One of the main reasons we wanted to play it was for Yoda as we're big Star Wars fans. The game is excellent fun and and great for 2 players, but the scantily clad folk need to go. Would the Xbox 360's family settings do this, or is it just "all or nothing" based on the game's box rating?

[Moore]

all or nothing.

[jpinard]

all or nothing.

That's what I thought, but I was hoping there was some setting I couldn't find. Thanks Moore.

[gamadict]

You can create a whole slate of wholesome-looking lady fighters and restrict yourself to selecting them

[jpinard]

You can create a whole slate of wholesome-looking lady fighters and restrict yourself to selecting them

Do you have to have completed a lot of the single player campaign to do that? I only have Yoda so far, but would love to have the other Star Wars characters as well. I'm such a console noob.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The only other Star Wars character you can unlock is the Apprentice guy from The Force Unleashed. You can also buy Darth Vader as DLC (on the PS3, Vader is free and Yoda is DLC).

[DennyA]

So it's okay to play a game about people beating the crap out of each other, but not if some skin is showing? If the kids are of the age where skimpy outfits are inappropriate, I'd think the fighting game aspect would be problematic as well.

But yeah, use some MS points to buy Darth Vader and they can enjoy the violence without the anatomy. :)

[Tom Chick]

So it's okay to play a game about people beating the crap out of each other, but not if some skin is showing?

"Some skin is showing"? I take it you haven't seen Soulcalibur IV. The problem isn't, say, a bare midriff, Denny. It's the crass sexualization of the female characters. I completely understand why a parent might think that's inappropriate. Particularly since there are plenty of beat-em-ups that don't shamelessly portray woman as punching/kicking sexual objects.

Actually, maybe there aren't, but Soulcalibur IV is among the more egregious.

-Tom

[MattKeil]

Virtua Fighter is relatively light on the female eye candy. Well, except Vanessa, I guess. And the naked metal chick, but nobody uses her.

Still, it's kind of funny to be worried about kids seeing cleavage in a game in which the object is to mercilessly injure your opponent to the point of unconsciousness.

[jpinard]

Sword fighting etc is the fun we were having and wanted of course Star Wars stuff. With there being no blood or mangling of body parts it's light-hearted fun. On the other side, the massive DD boobs or whatever with binknis up-the-butt just isn't something I want them to see. I don't see how SC-IV is any worse than Wii boxing or Star Wars Legos when you're attacking each other (which is what made us want the Star Wars stuff). After all, Darth Maul is my 8-year old niece's "boyfriend" - lol.

[MattKeil]

When I was 8 I didn't really have any awareness of boobs, DD or otherwise. I doubt it really matters as much as a horny adult male might think it does. Just don't pick Ivy, maybe. I don't remember any of the other women being all that blatant, except maybe Sophitia.

To get the other Star Wars characters you have to finish Arcade mode with Yoda to get Apprentice (I think...unless he's already open from the start) and go online to buy Vader as DLC. Hooray for Namco!

[sam and the firefly]

I'm with Matt and Denny. I specifically remember looking at magazine ads for crass stuff like Deathtrap Dungeon at the age of 11 or so and thinking "That is ridiculously impractical attire for the job in hand" - Soul Calibur's character design wouldn't have registered a blip.

Honestly, the "hitting people with really big swords" aspect would be far more offputting to me if it were my kids, but then the general American attitude towards the relative impact of sex and violence on corrupting the mind has always seemed very different to mine.

[Harley Quinn]

You can create a whole slate of wholesome-looking lady fighters and restrict yourself to selecting them

Who on earth wants to look wholesome? What kind of ambition is that?

[rei]

soul calibur 1 2 and 3 were all less slutty.

[Tom Chick]

When I was 8 I didn't really have any awareness of boobs, DD or otherwise. I doubt it really matters as much as a horny adult male might think it does.

I love how some of you have turned this around into a discussion about whether it matters to you when the issue is someone else's children. Little girls, to boot. Typical. "I saw boobs when I was 8 and I didn't turn out a mass murderer, so what's teh big deal?!?!?!?!"

For what it's worth, how women are presented to little girls is an important issue. Kudos to Jeff for giving it some thought. Would that most parents were as thoughtful as those girls' uncle.

BTW, Soulcalibur IV has an ESRB warning for partial nudity and sexual themes. I haven't played it in a while, but I don't remember it being particularly violent in the sense that characters never bleed or get banged up. It was pretty cartoony, with bright flashes for injuries. But I do remember it being one of the more salacious games, along with DOA, when it comes to ridiculous body proportions and sexual innuendo.

-Tom

[Tom Chick]

Honestly, the "hitting people with really big swords" aspect would be far more offputting to me if it were my kids, but then the general American attitude towards the relative impact of sex and violence on corrupting the mind has always seemed very different to mine.

Well, now you're being silly. "Corrupting the mind"? How about what's appropriate and inappropriate for kids of different ages?

As I mentioned above, the issue with Soulcalibur IV is how you present to little girls the idealized form of a woman. Girls have a tough row to hoe when it comes to growing up and finding their place in the world, tough in a completely different way than boys growing up. Completely outside the issues of sex and violence in children's entertainment, I think it's important for parents to consider what kinds of glorified female models are presented to their daughters.

Granted, this is just a matter of Jeff playing a fighting game with his nieces, but I think it touches on a wider issue. Although, really, what girl is going to want to play Soulcalibur IV? There's a toy for stupid boys* if ever I saw one.

-Tom

* Guilty.

[rei]

for kid-safe beatem ups you need to go with licensed games like naruto and dragonball based on anime/cartoons.

otherwise, for kids, you really need a wii/gc with super smash bros.

[bago]

Personally, the depiction of the male form all topless and trim has me tapping my toes.

[Rasputin]

I agree with Tom, here. Honestly, put aside all your high horses and realize that these are his nieces. At the very least empathize with the concept of playing this game and his sibling comes in and he gets to explain to them why he's playing the game with all the tits and thongs in it, not to mention the violence.

Also, Jeff, Lego Star Wars was tailor made for your situation, man.

[Funkula]

If you've got control of which characters are being selected for both players, it's trivially easy to handle. You can build nice-looking, practical costumes for the characters (Ivy, Sophitia, and maybe Tira) whose default costumes are ridiculous boobathons, and then make sure that that costume gets selected when they pick their character. I built Sophitia a suit of full Spartan armor that looked badass, and I can't remember whether Ivy's classic ruffled shirt costume is in 4 by default or I just recreated it.

[MattKeil]

I love how some of you have turned this around into a discussion about whether it matters to you when the issue is someone else's children. Little girls, to boot. Typical. "I saw boobs when I was 8 and I didn't turn out a mass murderer, so what's teh big deal?!?!?!?!"

For what it's worth, how women are presented to little girls is an important issue. Kudos to Jeff for giving it some thought. Would that most parents were as thoughtful as those girls' uncle.

I forgot about your degree in child psychology, sorry.

BTW, Soulcalibur IV has an ESRB warning for partial nudity and sexual themes. I haven't played it in a while, but I don't remember it being particularly violent in the sense that characters never bleed or get banged up. It was pretty cartoony, with bright flashes for injuries. But I do remember it being one of the more salacious games, along with DOA, when it comes to ridiculous body proportions and sexual innuendo.

There's no bloody or visible injury, although enough damage to a character in one place will cause their armor to break off. On some characters this means you see the tunic or whatever underneath. On Ivy it means she's basically naked. On the Star Wars characters, nothing actually breaks off, sparing us the sight of Yoda in a thong.

On thinking of it more now, I would say the game is exploitative of both genders somewhat equally, since the guys are generally just as naked and presented as chiseled beefcake. Granted, that's not the half of the equation its primary audience cares about, but Voldo's ass jiggles just as much as Xianghua's does.

In summary, maybe jpinard should just play Street Fighter IV with them. About the worst that can be said about that one is that it encourages young girls to overdo the thigh workouts.

[Funkula]

Did you seriously just argue that Voldo is presented as man-candy?

[garin]

Cammy is a little embarassing in SF4.

[Anders Hallin]

Still, it's kind of funny to be worried about kids seeing cleavage in a game in which the object is to mercilessly injure your opponent to the point of unconsciousness.

The violence/sex thing is an interesting debate, to be sure, but I think in this case, a much greater problem is that if I tried to play Soul Calibur IV in a family setting, I'd probably squirm out of my own skin with embarrassment.
It just looks like juvenile dreck. Which is a pity about Soul Calibur IV, because as I recall, I like a lot of the outfits.

[Andrew Mayer]

Did you seriously just argue that Voldo is presented as man-candy?

Are you trying to argue he's not?

[MattKeil]

Cammy is a little embarassing in SF4.

Yeah, true. But the initially available characters are all perfectly wholesome unless one thinks the Spinning Bird Kick is going too far. Crimson Viper is actually rather noteworthy in that she's fully clothed in a business suit. The anime cutscenes give her ridiculous cleavage, but the in-game model is impressively restrained in the cheesecake department.

Did you seriously just argue that Voldo is presented as man-candy?

Don't make me Rule 34 you.

[Diana Baba]

Lol

Now seriously, lets say you get to play some games and this is your choice of avatar or others dressed like it. Or lets say your nephews come over and you want to play some fighting games and its ALL man candy. And every game you ever bought. Voldo and his jiggling ass and S&M sex toy mouthpiece and codpiece over and over and over again. And when you get sick of your sex being objectified over and over and over and over some more and being told your priorities are wrong....it gets old.

[MattKeil]

It is perhaps telling that googling "all male fighting game" results in a bunch of links for "Arcana Heart, the all-female fighting game."

Et tu, internet?

[Aristophan]

Are you trying to argue he's not?

Deleted image of Voldo - think of the children!

This thread is officially over.

[Dirt]

In my opinion, the best course is to educate, not deny.