Game Journalism 2009: The Continuing Plunge

[jason_wilson]

...although honestly I don't know if IGN, Gamespot, 1Up, etc. have copy editors at all.

I can't speak for the others, but 1UP lost its copydesk (I was ZDM Game Group's copy chief, and I had one copy editor as my staff) when it was acquired by UGO.

[AgtFox]

I can't speak for the others, but 1UP lost its copydesk (I was ZDM Game Group's copy chief, and I had one copy editor as my staff) when it was acquired by UGO.

I was guessing at least some of them have a copy staff, but then again there's been some cases of possible bad copy editing by at least Gamespot in this thread.

I don't think the second tier (versus things like the sites I mentioned before) online sites like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, etc. have an actual copy editor on staff though. Even today in his Halo: ODST preview, Totilo says that he forgot to "clean up" the story until after he had posted it (an early commenter must have found problems, although I don't know what they were). Right now the comment where someone questions how the story was presented is down a bit in the comment section.

Thanks for the reply btw.

[Lynxara]

Generally blog-format sites don't have copy editors, since copy can be edited on the fly by the authors.

[Creole Ned]

Being able to self-edit is vastly different than having someone else (copy) edit for you, though, and it shows on these sites.

[Lynxara]

Oh yes, absolutely. But "we can edit on the fly" is the usual justification for saving some overhead and not hiring a copy editor.

[Creole Ned]

Yeah, it's convenient from their perspective. Other than the kvetching in threads like this, the lack of solid copy editing probably makes little difference, too. For all the complaints people have against sites like Kotaku, a good portion of links posted to this forum are from those same sites.

Then again, I'm not sure what (if any) sites are considered the gold standard today.

[Jonathan Crane]

Then again, I'm not sure what (if any) sites are considered the gold standard today.

The two sites that I think are the top of the list are Kieron's Rock Paper Shotgun and the Entity's Fidgit. Both feature literate writing and intelligent commentary, and no crimes against the English language.

[Dan Lawrence]

The two sites that I think are the top of the list are Kieron & Pentadact's Rock Paper Shotgun and the Entity's Fidgit. Both feature literate writing and intelligent commentary, and no crimes against the English language.

Pentadact doesn't write for RPS, he has his own blog (http://www.pentadact.com/) and writes professionally for PC Gamer UK.

[salwon]

Also, Tom routinely commits crimes against English on Fidgit. He's just very quick to correct them, and will always acknowledge them after the inevitable snarky comment.

But yeah, Kotaku can't compete with blogs started by, you know, writers.

[KieronGillen]

and no crimes against the English language.

(thanks)

Oh, I dunno. We fuck up plenty*, but we try to fix it quickly.

I think it's a shame that specialist copy editors are going the way they are, really. Traditionally, I've hired people with flair over those whose grammar is 100% - not least because I'm one of those people - because mags can save iffy spelling but adding flair is much harder. I suspect as we look forward, those who can't do it themselves will have a harder time of it.

Unless standards decline further, then we'll be fine.

I admit, this thread bothers me. Of all the problems facing games journalism, a typographical error which is fixed within half an hour doesn't even rate.

KG

*Me, mainly. I'm the member of RPS who has the most shaky basic grammar skills. I'm sure it grates the rest of them to be seen in the context as me.**

**That said, it probably grates more when the pedants come in trying to correct English spelling. Nothing annoys more than a shitty pedant.

[Dave Long]

Everyone consistently says how bad writing is in gaming, but I'm genuinely curious what people would hold up as the good stuff. And you can't just go grab something by Tom or Kieron either because they're obviously better than your average bear.

I suspect that a lot of what people think is "great" isn't really all that great and/or they don't even read a lot of the stuff they claim "sucks".

[Lynxara]

I think you have a lot of people reading the bad stuff and wishing it could be better while still giving the same steady flow of new information.

[triggercut]

Everyone consistently says how bad writing is in gaming, but I'm genuinely curious what people would hold up as the good stuff. And you can't just go grab something by Tom or Kieron either because they're obviously better than your average bear.

I suspect that a lot of what people think is "great" isn't really all that great and/or they don't even read a lot of the stuff they claim "sucks".

Clearly we read the shitty stuff in this thread wise guy. That's the motivation for this thread.

As for examples of "great" you ask for, How about Troy's strategy gaming blog at flashofsteel.com? What about Bill Harris on Dubious Quality? Bill or Todd at NutWeasel? I've read good stuff on the Gamers With Jobs site. Compare that to the many citations in this thread (just start with that howlingly bad GH5 review) and the perfectly serviceable writing that edges into "great" on occasion from those folks becomes regularly "great" by the default of comparison.

Maybe in your lowest-common-denominator world anything any poor writer on the take for free games and a published article to show his friends qualifies as decent writing. For the rest of us, we'd like something a little better.

[AgtFox]

If we're talking about best grouping of writers for reviews I'd probably have to say Crispy Gamer. Tom's part of it and it's really a melting pot of all the best review writers out there. I also know for a fact they have an editor (or two) that probably look at the reviews before publishing.

Best for gaming news, that might take a little more thinking. The thing about Crecente is he was a Crime Beat reporter for the Rocky Mountain News if I remember. I also believe he was involved with reporting about the Florida Presidential voting fiasco for the Palm Beach Post (via minimal Google checking, so I could be wrong as to where he was during the time).

[Telefrog]

I know a lot of people hate him for what they consider to be sensational editorializing by kicking off the Resident Evil 5 racism debate, but I really liked N'Gai Croal. I think he does some real in-depth stuff and asks some hard questions.

[nlanza]

I know a lot of people hate him for what they consider to be sensational editorializing by kicking off the Resident Evil 5 racism debate, but I really liked N'Gai Croal. I think he does some real in-depth stuff and asks some hard questions.

See, I give him a lot of credit for that.

He presented a fairly controversial argument very well, and it's exactly the sort of question the industry should be asking itself more often.

[MSUSteve]

I love N'gai Croal. Does anyone know if the audio from the panel he participated in at PAX is available anywhere?

[perrinbar]

I love N'gai Croal. Does anyone know if the audio from the panel he participated in at PAX is available anywhere?

I know they claimed to be recording all of the panels but if the audio is up somewhere I haven't heard about it yet.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

I also know for a fact they have an editor (or two) that probably look at the reviews before publishing.

Damn fine editors, too. Ryan Kuo does most of the copy editing over there now, and I'm happy when he edits one of my pieces. A good copy editor is not just about typos and grammar, it's also about asking for explanations when something isn't clear in the text. Ryan does this and does it well.

Troy

[alexlitel]

Jose Liz has a rival.

Halo is a series that has been exclusive to the Xbox and Xbox 360 and has been more popular ever since the first game. But do Bungie/ Microsoft X Studios give the same reputation everyone wants in each Halo game? Halo 3 is set to be release in North America September 22nd, for those who didn’t get early copies. Now down to business, here’s the review.

Instead of being Master Chief (like in Halo 3), you get to be a new hero that is called the Rookie. Halo 3: ODST’s story beings when you and your squad get separated upon arrival to the New Mombasa. Your mission is to find out why the Covenant has invaded the city, while in the city you must search for your other squad members while fighting off the Covenant. During the game you will find different objects that will trigger certain flashbacks that will lead to the mission starting. Bungie made it so that in each different mission you play a different person in your squad so that it brings variety to the game. The thing that I really like that Bungie put was the ability to select any mission you want to start in any select order. You can play the game on a 2 player split screen and 4 players online.

[Hanacker]

There are two new weapons introduced into this game, they will help you finish the game no matter what.

No matter what.

This is where some people can get nitpicky and that’s the graphics of the game. Some people might say its better and worse, but let’s not get into that because it’s a never ending battle.

I would agree the graphics are better and worse as well.

[Royal Fool]

Tha is the most confusings and bad written reviews ever. Top marks!

[Hans Lauring]

Damn fine editors, too. Ryan Kuo does most of the copy editing over there now, and I'm happy when he edits one of my pieces. A good copy editor is not just about typos and grammar, it's also about asking for explanations when something isn't clear in the text. Ryan does this and does it well.

Troy

This.
I'm a copy editor and my spelling isn't perfect. My grammar is near perfect (we're talking my native language here) but I do have the occasional run-in with proper punctuation. But that's not a problem because we have a very very good proofreader.

My job is to have a broad knowledge of the subjects we cover and catch mistakes, ask for clarifications and generally brush up language (often that means shortening, tightening and the killing of a few darlings).
Everything written gets better if bounced off a competent counter-reader of sorts - bouncing it off someone incompetent or unable to understand your style or what you're trying to say, makes it worse unfortunately. I left my last job in a writing role because, amongst other reasons, I just couldn't deal with the straight out of journalism-school copy editors I had to deal with.

But even professional writers (of the literary kind) needs a good editor.

Of course this is expensive and the number of people we have reading a piece before it hits print is beyond what most can afford - especially blogs. And a good blog doesn't need it either - a quick link and opinion from a guy like Kieron on RPS, Tom on Fidgit or Troy on Flash of Steel doesn't suffer much from a small spelling or grammatical gaffe.
But I would recommend running larger article-like pieces by one of your colleagues... if you have any.

[Telefrog]

Is that a real site? They have actual sponsors?

Edit: The e4g thing.

[seventimessix]

I really like how he flaunts his review copy in front of the reader. I always put more stock in the opinion of someone who thinks they're better than me.

[alexlitel]

Is that a real site? They have actual sponsors?

Edit: The e4g thing.

Yes, they have ads; it is as real as Jose Liz's site. I don't think the Uncharted 2 frame is actually an ad, though.

[Lynxara]

Is that a real site? They have actual sponsors?

Edit: The e4g thing.

Looks like a real site... but likely of the words-for-games variety and likely not proofing anything before it goes up. Y'know, despite going out of their way to recruit amateur writers.

[nixon66]

Awww, the staff page is cute - Our reviewer/CEO!

Name: Dardin Kay
Founder/CEO of E4G
Forums: admin
Email: [email protected]

I started E4G as a community of where gamers can get the latest gaming news, join in clans and have friendly discussion in the comments in forums.

[Hans Lauring]

The Skate2 review is a doozy too:

One of the first major skateboarding titles was Tony Hawk Pro Skater. It was a major hit! Soon after Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2, 3, and 4 were released. Then many more Tony Hawk titles like: Tony Hawk Downhill Jam, Tony Hawk Project 8, and Tony Hawk Underground. Just to name a few!

[alexlitel]

The Skate2 review is a doozy too:

I was actually going to mention that one.

Skateboarding has became increasingly more and more popular throughout the years. It has no doubt revolutionized the youth of this age. It is not just considered as a hobby, but as a lifestyle. Many stores in the US are now themed around skateboarding, like Pac’n'Sun, Quiksilver, Hurley, and countless others.


[…]


Skaters and gamers alike, crave for the most realistic skating games possible. Skate was released on September 24th, 2007, and was one of the most realistic skateboarding games ever released. It integrated a brand new system of using the toggle stick to preform various tricks. It is pretty hard to master and kind of complacated to learn, but once you learned it, it was so much better than all of it’s predecessors.

Awww, the staff page is cute

Name: Cameron Hedrick

Reviewer
Forums: SpyGuy29
Email: [email protected]

I run the halo 3 “Cobalt” Squad and also make reviews from time to time.

He makes reviews.