I could be wrong though, its really impossible for me to see this show with the eyes of a non-reader. I'm just guessing.
EDIT: Every time I submit a spoiler I have to double and triple check the thread header. I'm super paranoid about giving away this spoiler. I've never even posted in the non-spoilers thread, because Littlefinger would be disgusted at my ineptitude for deception.
There is that. Poor Sean Bean.
Yeah, I figured that Ned would buy the farm in Episode 10. But I have to say I forgot all the other crap that has to go on (I was figuring Episode 10 would be the end of Ned and the Danys funeral pyre/dragon hatching stuff). From a tv-series standpoint those two things seem fitting as end-of-season culminations.
At this point Rast or Beric make more sense to me (both of who have actually been introduced). Rast dying would give partial closure to the Jon/Sam plot at the wall (he's been an antagonist), and Beric dying would allow them to cut a lot of the Brotherhood without Banners plot (carting Arya all over the riverlands).
As for Marillion - he dies in AFFC, not SoS. The place where this was mentioned (Westeros.org) appears to be having issues so I can't reference it directly, but IIRC what Martin said was "a Minor character will die in season 1 to make the SoS season 3 plot easier"
Of course, Rome killed off Ciaran Hinds, but then I think we all saw that coming ;).
By the way, I have to say that Sean Bean has done an amazing job at differentiating Ned Stark from Boromir in my mind. When he was first cast I was worried that he would just be doing the same thing; noble but flawed warrior who is killed. But his Ned Stark seems older (to be expected I guess, since it's ten years since Fellowship came out), more rigid, less hopeful, and really, I suppose they are total opposites in a sense; Boromir was corruptible, Ned is un..corruptible (sp?).
Anyway, I think he's been doing a great job.
I agree it would be no loss to to simply write out Dontos' character in order to consolidate his plotting in aSoS, and there's no particularly good reason (or even a lot of time) in which to kill him, ie by moving up his "humiliation" scene in aCoK only with a different ending.
The season 1 logic weighs against Dontos. But of all the speculated deaths his to me is the one that significantly simplifies a plotline in aSoS, in a fairly "harmless" way. The other changes are just utterly pointless - Rast - or involve open heart surgery on the plot. Beric is admittedly more likely than Mormont or someone even more important, but they've introduced him and namedropped Thoros: that's a weird way to set up cutting the BwB. And there's the question of the macro-significance of some of the BwB plotting - magic, prophecy, undead-people etc.
You kill Beric for real in Season 1, you don't have to drag Arya halfway back across the river lands to get presented to him (through Acorn Hall, and that town etc etc), than drag her back the other way to take her to get ransomed - just to just get kidnapped by The Hound.
Instead, smash cut from where Hot Pie ditches her to The Hound kidnapping her. Then Thoros can be the one that creates Lady Stoneheart instead, and the BwB can rally to her. No I don't think this'll be good, but the shows creators thought creating an entirely new whore character and cutting The Blackfish from season 1 was a good idea.
From what I remember of the discussions on Westeros, they kept stressing it was a minor, 3rd tier, character. Rast seems so minor I'm not sure why they even bothered naming him in the series, and Dontos is actually a pretty important character to Sansa's storyline. Beric gets *talked* about a lot, but is hardly actually in the books - having people fight on in his name instead of beside him wouldn't be that big of a change.
I believe that you guys are mis-reading the word "minor" as "unimportant" when GRRM meant it as "small". I think they'll kill off Tyrion. It will significantly consolidate the plotting in Book 3.
To be serious, I think that Lancel is a good candidate: his true part in the story is largely over, and an early death would serve to illustrate the Queen's ruthlessness while slightly simplifying some stuff in books 2 and 3.
Edit: I guess Lancel doesn't actually due in Book 3... I thought he did. Ah well, I still stand by the choice out of sheer pig-headedness.
Re: what minor means, who the heck knows? To me, Rast, Dontos, Karstark, Beric, or Jeor Mormont could conceivably be some definition of "minor" and some kind of "simplifying book 3" rationale could be built around them.
EDIT: I am fascinated wondering what the non-book readers think is going to happen to Eddard. I can't imagine the idea of him not dying, and it feels like such a "Snape kills Dumbledore/Vader is Luke's father" type of notorious plot twist that'd have leaked out all over the place. Plus it's Sean "RIP" Bean, who seriously has to know he's reinforcing his reputation ;)
But I'm still hoping to see some heads explode in the non-readers' thread.
Last edited by Jason Townsend; 06-01-2011 at 02:42 PM.
Nope - all of the Arya and BwB stuff is in book 3 (per referencing the wiki). She gets dragged about by Yoren and gets captured in Book 2, taken to Harenhal and does the plot with Jaqen H'ghar there.
Hope I'm wrong and it's Rast - but I think he's just too minor (cause really what does he even do in book 3 that would get simplified).
That said...this is coming from what I believe is just a single quote from Martin. He's actually admitted he doesn't know the details of the books so great (and has the Westeros.org guy do his fact checking for the books), so maybe he meant Marillion after all :)
I think GRRM means the minor details such as horse coloring or eye color, or horse gender, that sort of thing. I doubt he's confused on even minor characters.
Well, apparently I'm not too great on the chronology either. I thought of that stuff as being in the end of CoK.
You're confusing two quotes. Martin said it was a character who dies in Book 3. Ran from Westeros said it's such a minor character it doesn't even matter. It's been speculated it was to streamline the story, but that's BS.
It's Rast or my favorite guess, Hoster Tully(tho I think this was disproved somehow. Kill him off offscreen, spurring Catelyn back to Riverrun, nothing changes.
And thanks Cat - whenever I go to their forum it's down so I couldn't remember what the actual prediction was.
I'm fairly confident the character they are talking about is Old Nan. Pretty sure she dies in the third book, but the actress who played her in the first season died recently. It's probably just easier to give any of her exposition to someone else than to cast someone new.
Otherwise, Rast dies a nameless, faceless death on the Fist of the First Men. Impact on story by reason of his "early" death: 0.00%.
As they have not yet cast Edmure, there seems little reason to even bother with killing off Hoster Tully at this stage. They'll kill HIM off early next season. Again -- zero story impact. Hoster Tully is all pat of Catelyn's internal monologue anyway.
[Edit: Actually, I think we hear this from a Frey who relates the tale to King Robb at Riverrun prior to Robb's setting out for the Red Wedding. Either way -- Nan does not die.]
Last edited by Steel_Wind; 06-02-2011 at 11:57 AM.
I was worried about my imaginary vision of characters being overriden by the TV versions - a TV show has longer than a movie to stamp itself on one's mind - but I still have my vague mental image of Ned as a younger, darker haired, cleanshaven fellow. (Funnily, a bit more like Bean in Equilibrium...) But I have a dickens of a time not imagining his dialogue in a Sean Bean voice. He is a "Northerner," after all.
When I said imaginary I really did mean "imaginary."Branís father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years. He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly of the age of heroes and the children of the forest.
I just read through the no spoiler thread, and I think the biggest surprise for people, even more than Ned's death, is going to be that the Dothraki don't go anywhere. That's been my impression from people I know also - they all expect the last episode will be the invasion, and then the next books are about Dany and Drogo fighting for Westeros. Those theories should be taken care of next episode, as far as I can tell.
I do like the speculation in the non spoiler thread about whether or not Cersei was behing Robert's death.