Guitar Hero World Tour: SPOILER THREAD

[Tom Chick]

Tom, did you play the final NYC GH:WT gig in a band?

I did not. I can't even get the guys to play the Tool set list with me. But I hate Assassin (and I say that as a Muse fan!) and Hot for Teacher does zero for me. Van Halen is a bunch of dorks!

BTW, I like a couple of the Spanish language songs. There's one that makes me think of an assassin creeping up to kill the President of Mexico. It has little sneaky slow bits. I like that one. Then there's the Mexican alt rock song which I really like. It sounds like it was written for a Mexican soap opera. Without looking them up, I couldn't tell you their names to save my life.

-Tom

[wumpus]

That Anouk song (Good God) is painful as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq3wRgUtwIA

I can point to so, so many songs in GH:WT that are almost virulently anti-rock.

It's like the people selecting the tracklist picked songs at random from a marketing notebook. I really wasn't kidding when I said (factoring for masters vs. covers) that GH:WT may have the weakest tracklist of any GH game to date.

And I say that with love, as a guy who has a massive boner for all things fake plastic rock. I *wanted* to like these songs. I loved the GH: 80's and even GH: Aerosmith, for God's sake.

[Midnight Son]

A friend brought it over this weekend. After a couple of hours it was back to "The Jack," "Devil's Island" and "Pain Killer" in RB2. GhWT is like a Yugo to Rock Bands Aston Martin.

[Lizard_King]

And I say that with love, as a guy who has a massive boner for all things fake plastic rock. I *wanted* to like these songs. I loved the GH: 80's and even GH: Aerosmith, for God's sake.

Right, so you wouldn't know rock if it bit you in the ass. Let it go, it's not the stunning revelation you think it is.

[wumpus]

Let me make sure I'm understanding you: you're saying Anouk's "Good God" is a solid ROCK MUSIC SONG?

[wumpus]

Playing some vocals on GH:WT, surprised at the differences.

1) I noticed there are huge stretches in the song where the vocalist has literally nothing to do, such as in "Do It Again" and "Ramblin' Man". Is there no equivalent to the tambourine / cowbell / clapping sections of Rock Band?

2) You can activate star power anywhere by making a loud sound (clapping, tapping the mic, etc.) This shouldn't be mutually exclusive with the cowbell sections since you have to activate outside a phrase or vocalist action anyway.

3) There are apparently vocalist equivalent of the freeform drum fills, where you get points for just wailing away at the mic?

I actually prefer the GH:WT method of showing the vocalist pitch at all times, whereas RB only shows it when you're singing a phrase. But other than that, this feels like a bust.

[Lizard_King]

Let me make sure I'm understanding you: you're saying Anouk's "Good God" is a solid ROCK MUSIC SONG?

I don't recall ever playing it in GHWT. I'm sure it's there, but here's the question for you: is Visions better? Because I don't know about this whole "is it rock" category of yours...if it includes Aerosmith and GH80's over a game that includes Hendrix, Ozzy, and Tool, I can only conclude that your definition is based around which song of the moment you want to make huge deal about. Both games have potential for that, and it's not really a crisis unless you're talking about difficulty walls like that Nugent song, Raining Blood back in the day, or Visions. Which, you know, all of these games seem to have.

As for the vocals, I'm pretty sure tambourines, cowbells, and clapping are not particularly rock. It's a decent way to fill the gaps, but it's not a big dealk. Like, say, the drum fills for star power in RB or the open notes in GHWT.

Did some of the bass career this week, and it's pretty gratifying. I'm not in love with the song unlocking for every career, but it's a wash with RB's challenge mode. I do still like straight careers, it turns out, and in both games quickplay is going to be the primary mode. I'm really looking forward to Harmonix implementing detailed feedback on song performance some day. Surely something GH2 did is fair game for both.

[Juste]

Got this yesterday, bought it primarily for the drumkit and the guitar and got a really good trade in deal at Gamestop. Came home and found out (surprise surprise) that the drumkit was bOrked. The red pad only registered one out of 3 hits. I have exchanged it today, let's see if that helps. Does anyone have a link to somewhere that explains the sensitivity problems with the GHWT drumkit and what can be done?

[Lizard_King]

Got this yesterday, bought it primarily for the drumkit and the guitar and got a really good trade in deal at Gamestop. Came home and found out (surprise surprise) that the drumkit was bOrked. The red pad only registered one out of 3 hits. I have exchanged it today, let's see if that helps. Does anyone have a link to somewhere that explains the sensitivity problems with the GHWT drumkit and what can be done?

It's actually likely that the drum kit is fine and just needs calibration. Small comfort, but there it is. The red octane website can walk you through warranty claiming your midi-usb cable so you can use the free software to adjust your drums to your preferred sensitivity level. Like, one that works.

Mine work mostly fine except the red can't detect hard hits, so I'm waiting on my tuning kit.

[wumpus]

can only conclude that your definition is based around which song of the moment you want to make huge deal about

The GH:WT song list is problematic. And I say that as a guy who has played every single rock rhythm game extensively, and is very open minded about song preferences. There's very little I don't like, as long as it is fun to play. Yes, there absolutely are some good songs on there (which is why it justifies a rental if nothing else), but consider the stats:

- 18 of the songs are in Rock Band in some form (RB1, DLC, RB2)
- Several of the songs are pretty damn far afield from the bread and butter rock genre (On The Road Again, La Bamba, Good God)
- 4-5 of the songs are non-English unknown bands in the US

Beyond that it gets a little subjective -- but I'd argue that a lot of the remaining songs are low energy and not that interesting to play.

Half the tracklist has serious issues. I agree with Sluggo when he said the GH:WT tracklist feels like it was filled by contractual obligations more than conscious decisions to choose songs that rocked and/or were interesting for a complete band to play.

is Visions better

Kind of a specious comparison, because Visions is clearly a joke/gimmick song like Timmy or Trogdor. For the record, sure, there are at least 5 songs on the RB2 disc that clearly suck. But, compare with HALF of the GH:WT tracklist, and obviously lack of DLC makes that loss even more painful.

It's a decent way to fill the gaps, but it's not a big dealk

So having the vocalist stand around and do nothing for HUGE stretches of songs is a solid game design? Ironically, the vocalist cowbell/tambourine/claps usually blend into the song WAY better than random-ass drum fills do. When was the last time you heard a song with the drummer just making up a bunch of crap 5-6 times?

It's actually likely that the drum kit is fine and just needs calibration

They really ought to include the calibration kit with the drums. I bought two kits and one of them was horrible, the red pad barely registered. How did so many drums get shipped out of the factory with such bad calibration? It doesn't help that Red Octane's hardware return policy is absolutely medieval: you ship to us on your dime, we ship replacement when we feel like it. As much as people bitched about it, this really makes one appreciate the Harmonix/Activision return policy of cross-shipping coffins for free.

[Lizard_King]

The GH:WT song list is problematic. And I say that as a guy who has played every single rock rhythm game extensively, and is very open minded about song preferences. There's very little I don't like, as long as it is fun to play. Yes, there absolutely are some good songs on there (which is why it justifies a rental if nothing else), but consider the stats:

- 18 of the songs are in Rock Band in some form (RB1, DLC, RB2)
- Several of the songs are pretty damn far afield from the bread and butter rock genre (On The Road Again, La Bamba, Good God)
- 4-5 of the songs are non-English unknown bands in the US

Beyond that it gets a little subjective -- but I'd argue that a lot of the remaining songs are low energy and not that interesting to play.

Half the tracklist has serious issues. I agree with Sluggo when he said the GH:WT tracklist feels like it was filled by contractual obligations more than conscious decisions to choose songs that rocked and/or were interesting for a complete band to play.

Beyond that it gets a little subjective? I like most of the songs on the tracklist, and I like the foreign language ones, and I even enjoyed playing Willie Nelson (not for drums, that's for sure). Stop with your stats.

Kind of a specious comparison, because Visions is clearly a joke/gimmick song like Timmy or Trogdor. For the record, sure, there are at least 5 songs on the RB2 disc that clearly suck. But, compare with HALF of the GH:WT tracklist, and obviously lack of DLC makes that loss even more painful.

It's not a bad comparison at all. The closest thing to a career mode that RB2 has can only be beat by playing Visions, as well as the rest of the mostly terrible bonus content. It's fair game. A lot of your half "statistic" includes songs that are in both games. Would this be held against RB2 if it had come out right after GHWT? I bet not, at least not by you. Maybe we could find a ferocious GHWT partisan to provide you with your character foil...I'll do his job just for your benefit.

Here are songs I can find from quickly scanning the RB2 tracklist that I will never replay if I can help it. Many are not particularly rock, but all are just not worth my time:
Beastie Boys "So Whatcha Want"
Beck "E-Pro"
Bob Dylan "Tangled Up in Blue" (sorry Bob, I tried to like playing this)
Cheap Trick "Hello There"
Devo "Uncontrollable Urge"
Guns N' Roses "Shackler's Revenge"
Jimmy Eat World "The Middle"
Joan Jett "Bad Reputation"
L7 "Pretend We're Dead"
Mighty Mighty Bosstones "Where'd You Go"
Panic at the Disco "Nine in the Afternoon"
Squeeze "Cool for Cats"
Steely Dan "Bodhitsattva"
The Go-Go's "We Got the Beat"
The Muffs "Kids in America"
The Replacements "Alex Chilton"
Abnormality "Visions"
The Libyans "Neighborhood"
The Main Drag "A Jagged Gorgeous Winter"

PLUS 18 SONGS THAT ARE IN GHWT! HALF OF THE TRACKLIST HAS SERIOUS ISSUES! I HAVE PROVED THIS DEFINITIVELY WITH STATISTICS! RB2 IS A TERRIBLE GAME!

Or alternately, it just needs an option to remove songs from the tracklist even if they are a part of the main disc, and then it would be an even better game. GHWT doesn't have a tour mode, and there is some skippability in the way the tiers are set up, but I'm not sure it's a win over the old fashioned GH1-3 style which was just fine with me if they'd added "skip a song from any tier" to the harder difficulties.

So having the vocalist stand around and do nothing for HUGE stretches of songs is a solid game design? Ironically, the vocalist cowbell/tambourine/claps usually blend into the song WAY better than random-ass drum fills do. When was the last time you heard a song with the drummer just making up a bunch of crap 5-6 times?

It's not a problem for me. I play vocals almost none of the time, and most of the vocalists I play with in band mode ignore the tambourine stuff. It's an ok solution, but it's nothing special. They might as well integrate a timing minigame where you throw souvenirs at the crowd to boost star power: it would fill the space, but with something that can hardly be considered genuinely integrated in the gameplay.

Maybe in GHWT2 or RB2 they'll add a "rhythm guitar" option that allows the lead singer to play along for bonus points and no penalties whenever he feels like it. Or something. I'm not a game designer, I'm just saying.

They really ought to include the calibration kit with the drums. I bought two kits and one of them was horrible, the red pad barely registered. How did so many drums get shipped out of the factory with such bad calibration? It doesn't help that Red Octane's hardware return policy is absolutely medieval: you ship to us on your dime, we ship replacement when we feel like it. As much as people bitched about it, this really makes one appreciate the Harmonix/Activision return policy of cross-shipping coffins for free.

I sent back a useless guitar, got back a useless guitar from Harmonix, all for free! I'd say it's a wash for me. My drums work fine, I'm just unable to register hard hits on one drum pad. It would have been a good idea to include the cable, sure, but I wouldn't hold it against them on the initial shipment.

[wumpus]

Lizard King, I'm not sure why you anointed yourself defender of all things GH:WT.

Unlike you, I don't have an emotional investment in this game. Is it the Tool? I can't quite figure out what's going on with you on this one, but it appears to be quite personal. I buy 'em all, and judge them on their merits.

Beyond that, I don't bring musical grudges to the table. (Also, your taste in music is quite bad, but that's not relevant.) I'll certainly agree that What 'Cha Want and E-Pro are terribly boring to play. I'm not a big fan of Tangled Up In Blue either. I'll play anything and enjoy it as long as it's got some energy and works well in band play. Unfortunately not many of the GH:WT tracks meet that bar. I guess there are a few tracks on the GH:WT disc you feel emotionally attached to, so when I criticize the game, it's like I'm criticizing you?

Actually, I have a confession to make. You got me. It's personal. It's not that this game has glaring design flaws, it's that I hate you as a person. When I was playing vocals, bored out of my mind for long stretches in "Do It Again" and "Ramblin' Man" doing absolutely nothing, I was thinking y'know what? Fuck Lizard King. I can't wait to post on the message board and really stick it to him this time!

Whatever design flaws I point out (random foreign language tracks aren't that fun for english language players, vocalists have nothing to do for long periods in some songs, lots of low energy non-rock & obscure tracks, horrible band UI & communist star power system, etc etc), you'll just say "doesn't bother me".

By that metric, every game is the best game ever. Apparently you're more tolerant of bad design than most. Have fun with your game, then. Buying games must be exceptionally easy for you.

[Midnight Son]

Hey wumpy, are you the guy who owns fakeplasticrock? If you are, yes I'm slow.

[Lizard_King]

By that metric, every game is the best game ever. Apparently you're more tolerant of bad design than most. Have fun with your game, then. Buying games must be exceptionally easy for you.

Yes, buying games is a festival of tasteless enjoyment for me. You fucking idiot.

I don't know what you are talking about anymore. I gave you why GHWT works for me, and provided a logical counterpoint to your angle of what "rocks hardest" and your bullshit statistics. Now you're going off the deep end as if I'd just discovered video games yesterday. The only problem here is that you're trying to prove GHWT sucks, which is difficult and pointless. GH3 had serious mechanics problems. This doesn't. That was the end all, be all of my point to begin with.

I can't wait to see what else you get out of your scientific research on what sucks.

[Wholly Schmidt]

The only problem here is that you're trying to prove GHWT sucks, when in fact it's difficult and pointless.

Fixed, lolwut.

[Lizard_King]

My mom gives great head

That's not appropriate at all.

[Juste]

It's actually likely that the drum kit is fine and just needs calibration. Small comfort, but there it is. The red octane website can walk you through warranty claiming your midi-usb cable so you can use the free software to adjust your drums to your preferred sensitivity level. Like, one that works.

Mine work mostly fine except the red can't detect hard hits, so I'm waiting on my tuning kit.

Thanks for the link. The second drumkit is actually just as bad so this must be a manufacturing issue. It just does not register the red notes correctly. I'll play with the Rock Band kit while they send me a cable. Is this a special cable or will and Midi-Usb cable work?

[wumpus]

GH3 had serious mechanics problems. This doesn't.

GH:WT absolutely does have deep mechanics problems for band play, which is the whole point of the game, last time I checked.

Even as a solo guitar/bass or solo drums game, where it fares a bit better (though single player Tour mode in RB2 is more interesting), the tracklist is its achilles heel.

Yes, they did fix the absurd difficulty problem GH3 had, but I'd take GH3's overall solid rock tracklist over GH:WTs schizophrenic, marketing-driven tracklist any day.

It's just weird to me that you're so emotionally attached to this game. What I'm getting from you is that once you add Tool to a game, nothing else matters. I disagree with that.

[wumpus]

will Midi-Usb cable work?

It might work. Try it with the software they provide.

Note that you need the drumkit connected to the console and in the recording studio for this to work, so load it on your laptop.

[Adree]

[Lizard_King]

It's just weird to me that you're so emotionally attached to this game. What I'm getting from you is that once you add Tool to a game, nothing else matters. I disagree with that.

Well, that's a stupid thing to get. I'm not surprised, given the grasp of logic that you've demonstrated so far, but it's wrong. Keep overstating your case, though, I'm sure I'll get bored eventually.

[Funkula]

Beck "E-Pro"
Cheap Trick "Hello There"
Devo "Uncontrollable Urge"
Joan Jett "Bad Reputation"
L7 "Pretend We're Dead"
Steely Dan "Bodhitsattva"
The Go-Go's "We Got the Beat"
The Replacements "Alex Chilton"

You have a problem, and I don't know if anyone can help you with it.

[Reldan]

A few things:

Wumpus - I also have noticed the overall sound quality of the songs in GH:WT does not seem as good as what I'm used to from RB2. I'm using DD5.1 on a nice home theater system so differences are pretty noticable. I was just thinking earlier tonight when we were rocking out that the sound seemed a bit muddy, but thought maybe it was just me at the time.


Anyways, I think the game is probably fine as a Guitar Hero game, but fails to be a good Rock Band game. Lizard King, I know you're coming from the perspective of not particularly caring that much about the drums or vocals. You mainly care about Guitar and Bass, and I think that in general many of the songs lend themselves to guitar and bass and that Neversoft did a reasonable job with the notecharts this time around. How often do you play in a "band" that's more than just guitar+bass (which basically is just playing GH:WT like any GH game)?

As a band game I totally agree with Wumpus that there's much to be desired. There are so many songs in this game that are painfully dull to play on the drums. This gets further aggravated by the rampant undercharting caused by their 2-cymbal 3-drum setup. Dedicated vocalists have a hard time telling why the game is failing them, and are left with nothing to do quite often. There's no real band dynamic of working together to get Unison Bonuses, or activating star power to save or help each other through difficult sections. Band play just kinda falls flat, with the only saving grace being a handful of great songs that aren't available in Rock Band.

If Harmonix added the open note to bass and made about 10 songs from GH:WT DLC for RB, I don't think I'd ever need to play GH:WT again.

[wumpus]

Well, that's a stupid thing to get

ORLY? You said, and this is a direct cut and paste from your post earlier in this thread:

the inclusion of three Tool songs with good note charts in any music game probably makes it the best track list in history

I'm just trying to understand your irrationality on the topic of GH:WT.

I was just thinking earlier tonight when we were rocking out that the sound seemed a bit muddy, but thought maybe it was just me at the time.

I've seen similar messages on the scorehero forums, so it's not just us. There's something wrong with the sound mix. It's quite muddy, and the "crowd sing alongs" are barely noticeable (but they are there). Kind of a shitty problem for a music game to have, like the mono sound in GH3 Wii.

Anyways, I think the game is probably fine as a Guitar Hero game, but fails to be a good Rock Band game.

Yes, and I said as much a few posts back. Quoting myself: "It's a great guitar game, not so sure it's a great band game". Though my complaints about the tracklist overlap with RB, the foreign language songs, and the many lethargic, low energy, soul-crushingly non-rock tracks (Coldplay, Good God, etc) are all still valid, even on guitar/bass. You have to play the entire track list to experience the problems. On paper, it sounds decent.

If Harmonix added the open note to bass

I agree the open bass note is awesome and makes bass much more interesting (still not saying much for some songs, but every little bit helps). I talked to one of the Harmonix guys at PAX and he said they experimented with this in early builds of Rock Band, but dropped it. I urged him to put it back in, but it sounded unlikely to me. They'd have to back-chart all the bass stuff in every song, too.

There are definitely a few innovations in GH:WT I'd like Rock Band to pick up -- and the hardware, physical drum layout arrangement aside, is outstanding. But on the whole, it's a huge bust as a band game. I was cautiously optimistic when I started playing, but the deeper I get into GH:WT, the worse it gets.

[Lizard_King]

ORLY? You said, and this is a direct cut and paste from your post earlier in this thread:

I'm just trying to understand your irrationality on the topic of GH:WT.

Yes, hmm, when taken out of context there's no way I could have been exaggerating for emphasis, right? Let me give you another example of my sentiments when RB2 was released: the inclusion of a well charted Pearl Jam song in RB2's tracklist makes it the best track list in history. Oh, the humanity!

Rest assured had I known at that point that I'd still be balls deep in this absurd argument with you I would have chosen my words more carefully.

How have I been irrational? I've pointed out how I enjoy the game overall and why the track list is not something that will be viewed universally as poor. You've retorted first with quasi-scientific research on how many songs suck, and now appear fixated on having an argument about my musical tastes.

You mainly care about Guitar and Bass, and I think that in general many of the songs lend themselves to guitar and bass and that Neversoft did a reasonable job with the notecharts this time around. How often do you play in a "band" that's more than just guitar+bass (which basically is just playing GH:WT like any GH game)?

Not that often, mostly because of time constraints. In fact, twice I think so far. I suspect in general that RB2's aesthetics and massive DLC/RB1 tracklist are going to always be too far ahead for that to change, apart from experimentation from curious people who haven't tried GHWT.

I am curious that you are also experiencing the sound problem. I thought it sounded different from RB, to be sure, but I attributed it more to the difference in sound effects than the mix. Plus the GH3/WT mix of Metallica's new album gave me a good first impression overall of the sound quality, since it managed to be a better mix for me than the actual cd.

The notecharts are, as you say, the key quality difference for me between GHWT and GH3. The improvements in graphics, arguable as they are, and the additional gameplay of other instruments and tweaks to their styles come second for me.

You have a problem, and I don't know if anyone can help you with it.

I do have a problem, which is that you're incapable of getting a main idea out of a passage of text. Let's try multiple choice:

My argument in that post was
a) My musical tastes are universally shared and I believe everyone will agree with me on songs they don't replay in RB2.
b) "Statistics" based tracklist hating is no more scientific and provable than simply saying "RB2's got a track list that appeals more to me" and not trying to draw an objective indicator of quality from it.
c) Please, let's fight about which bands we like! I'm on team Tool, you guys are on team Hipster Rock, let's go!

Remember, only one answer is correct.

[wumpus]

How have I been irrational?

For one thing, you don't even play vocals, yet you're quick to dismiss complaints from people that do.

More examples:

1) There's a problem with the sound mix in GH:WT. "Sounds fine to me!"

2) GH:WT looks pretty bad visually (probably as a result of building a least-common-denominator 3D engine that works on Wii and PS2, unlike Rock Band, which uses prerecorded videos for those last-gen platforms). "Looks fine to me!"

3) There are a lot of foreign language songs, a lot of overlap with Rock Band, and a lot of obscure and/or egregiously non-rock songs in the GH:WT tracklist. Do the math -- this adds up to nearly half the tracklist. "Tracklist seems fine to me!"

4) Band play has serious mechanics problems and terrible UI. "Band play seems fine to me! Never had a problem!"

Basically you've anointed yourself the defender of all things GH:WT. Any criticism, and you're there to apologize on the game's behalf. It's your full time job, apparently.

[Lizard_King]

For one thing, you don't even play vocals, yet you're quick to dismiss complaints from people that do.

I don't dismiss them, I explain why they are not a problem for me, as someone who's pretty happy with the game. I don't see it as a replacement for RB, or even as alternative, but rather a good supplement for people who can get both.

I've explained why I feel differently about every one of those points. There's nothing irrational about it, just a difference of opinion that you refuse to acknowledge as possible. Egregiously non rock? Fuck off already. I haven't anointed myself as anything, I just find your tone and arguments irritating and off base. There's some legitimate criticisms that you've voiced, but none of them deserve the hyperbolic nightmare you've created around them. I'm sure that goes both ways, so let's just agree to disagree.

[wumpus]

I don't dismiss them, I explain why they are not a problem for me, as someone who's pretty happy with the game.

Your "explanation" for the vocalist complaints is that it's not a problem for you, because you don't play vocals.

Well, by that logic, if I enjoy using the game's main menu, then issues with gameplay aren't a problem, because I've never experienced them; the main menu works great for me!

This, plus the intense partisanship of your musical preferences, is why you're not credible bordering on outright irrational on this topic.

Why do you internalize GH:WT so much, treating criticisms of the game like I'm criticizing you personally? Does the game mean that much to you? Is it part of your identity?

[sinfony]

3) There are a lot of foreign language songs, a lot of overlap with Rock Band, and a lot of obscure and/or egregiously non-rock songs in the GH:WT tracklist. Do the math -- this adds up to nearly half the tracklist. "Tracklist seems fine to me!"

Just because a song is foreign, obscure, or "non-rock" does not mean it isn't fun. Constantly proclaiming this makes you seem like a dumbass.

This is particularly true when your statements reveal that you have no idea what you are talking about. See, for instance, your post a couple of pages ago in which you aver that The Mars Volta's "L'Via L'Viaquez" is just a "foreign language filler song." If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would probably know the following things:

• The Mars Volta are reasonably well-known in modern rock circles, particularly since the driving forces behind the band were previously in At the Drive-In, a band that achieved moderate mainstream success in 2000/2001.
• Musicians who have played on the band's recordings include Flea and John Frusciante; I will assume that even you have heard of these two
• Some of the lyrics to the song in question are in English
• The Mars Volta in general, and that song in particular, are fucking awesome

I don't disagree that Rock Band is a better full-band game. There are a lot of sound arguments to be made in support of that proposition. Foaming at the mouth about how GH:WT's tracklist "IS NOT TEH ROXORZZ!!!11" is not one of them.

[Lizard_King]

Your "explanation" for the vocalist complaints is that it's not a problem for you, because you don't play vocals.

Well, by that logic, if I enjoy using the game's main menu, then issues with gameplay aren't a problem, because I've never experienced them; the main menu works great for me!

This, plus the intense partisanship of your musical preferences, is why you're not credible bordering on outright irrational on this topic.

Why do you internalize GH:WT so much, treating criticisms of the game like I'm criticizing you personally? Does the game mean that much to you? Is it part of your identity?

Why are you so mad? I'm not mad you're the one getting mad. NO YOU.

The intense partisanship of my music preferences? Holy shit you are incredible. It is not part of my identity, and I don't feel personally criticized except when, for example, you personally attack me. Not credible? Well then fuck off and let it go already, I'll go back to INSANELY enjoying a fine supplement to Rock Band even though I now have no credibility with some fucking douche.

Now just stop making numbered lists that don't prove a goddamned thing beyond the fact that you wouldn't know a logical fallacy if it punched you in the face. Phase 2 is getting rid of the dumbass arguments altogether, but we'll take it in baby steps.

I don't disagree that Rock Band is a better full-band game. There are a lot of sound arguments to be made in support of that proposition. Foaming at the mouth about how GH:WT's tracklist "IS NOT TEH ROXORZZ!!!11" is not one of them.

You don't understand, he's got proof. Bulleted lists and everything. There's no need for pinko foreign music when you know the facts about which tastes are right. It's not like he does this kind of thing for other games, anyway. That would be crazy.