So are any of the Tycoon/Sim/Empire Games any Good?

[Sharpe]

So I see at the big-box stores that there are just a ton of various "business sim" games - every sort of "Tycoon" game you can think of (Atlantis Tycoon, Restaurant Empire, Casino Tycoon, Mall Tyccon, etc etc).

There are so many titles I cannot tell what's crap and what's potentially decent.

Any feedback on this stuff. Are any of these worth the time to play? I do like strategy games and have enjoyed the early versions of Sim City and the Impressions City games.

Is this whole category just a "cheap rip off / AVOID" category or are there any good games to be had?

Dan

[Matthew Gallant]

Startopia is good.

[MarchHare]

Rollercoaster Tycoon and Railroad Tycoon (and the sequel) are both quite good. Zoo Tycoon is pretty fun as well, although it didn't hold my interest nearly as long as RCT did. I haven't really played any of the others.

[SpoofyChop]

Best Economic/Empire sims:

Railroad Tycoon 2 Platinum
Starships Unlimited: Divided Galaxies
Rollercoaster Tycoon
Patrician II
Port Royale
Caesar III / Pharaoh / etc
Trade Empires

[Tyjenks]

Any feedback on this stuff. Are any of these worth the time to play? I do like strategy games and have enjoyed the early versions of Sim City and the Impressions City games.

Is this whole category just a "cheap rip off / AVOID" category or are there any good games to be had?

Dan

My sentiments exactly. I now run from any title with "sim" or "tycoon" in the title. RCT was great as I had always loved sim games as you do. Then the avalanche of poop came with RCT's impressive sales. Hasbro, IIRC, went so far as to require that Cyberlore subtitle Majesty, The Fantasy Kingdom Sim. RCT II was more of the same and the Pizza palace, Lemonade and Golf Resort Tycoon IIs have flooded the market.

The Movies does look interesting and, if done correctly, The Playboy Mansion sim from ARUSH Entertainment could be good. With the rash of awful titles, it is hard to even bother with the genre any more, though.

[SpoofyChop]

Most of the titles that have Tycoon in the name are actually awful. As a fan of the genre you have to keep an ear to the ground...many things have come out that are super high quality but that really don't get much press...Starships Unlimited for instance.

[Timemaster Tim]

Most "tycoon" games are rush jobs hoping to gain sales on the "tycoon" phenomenon. Railroad Tycoon, and Rollercoaster Tycoon are good. Zoo Tycoon was intersting but there's not really a lot there after the initial gee-whiz phase of the game.

I also tried the demo for Mall Tycoon. Maybe they polished the finished product, but the demo was simply abysmal. Apallingly bad graphics. Poor UI. And it wasn't actually any fun.

I think the thing is that these tycoon wannabe games are missing on is the element that makes the game fun. Although ostensibly a business sim, the real fun in Railroad Tycoon was laying down the tracks and running the trains around like a model railroad. The fun in Rollercoaster Tycooon was not so much in runnning the park as in designing and buildig the coasters.

Putting down some retail shops just doesn't seem to incite the same sort of thrill.

[Tyjenks]

The Mansion. Cyberlore is working on this as well. We will see.

[Sharpe]

Hmm. Starships Unlimited sounds pretty good - I notice that its available boxed at the store or via download. Which is the better way to get it?

I think I'll try it out.

Dan

[SpoofyChop]

You may want to go to apezone.com and contact Andrew and ask. It looks like he's still updating the web version. Apparently the Beta version of STUN v3 is now out.

I don't know if you can upgrade to this fron SUDG.

[tromik]

Trevor Chan's tycoon style games, such as Capitalism II and Restaurant Empire, are quite good. Actually, he worked on the freeware title Virtual-U, which is apparently very realistic and tough and is used in universities.

Monopoly Tycoon is one of the funner and better tycoon games. The AI it features is quite strong.

I also like Railroad Tycoon II, Zeus: Master of Olympus and Patrician 2.

[mudpuppy]

Hasbro, IIRC, went so far as to require that Cyberlore subtitle Majesty, The Fantasy Kingdom Sim.

Do you know this for a fact or are you just speculating? There's another, perfectly innocent reason why Cyberlore would want to give Majesty that subtitle: to distinguish it from other, run-of-the-mill RTS games, since it is a sim.

[Bub, Andrew]

Mudpuppy, I never saw it verified but that is how the story went at the time. I even made fun of it in a column I had. It was Majesty, then the Sims got really popular, and then the title changed ... just like that. Maybe Cyberlore changed it themselves, or maybe Hasbro told them to. The former seemed more likely at the time.

[mudpuppy]

Mudpuppy, I never saw it verified but that is how the story went at the time. I even made fun of it in a column I had. It was Majesty, then the Sims got really popular, and then the title changed ... just like that. Maybe Cyberlore changed it themselves, or maybe Hasbro told them to. The former seemed more likely at the time.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

[Tyjenks]

Mudpuppy, I never saw it verified but that is how the story went at the time. I even made fun of it in a column I had. It was Majesty, then the Sims got really popular, and then the title changed ... just like that. Maybe Cyberlore changed it themselves, or maybe Hasbro told them to. The former seemed more likely at the time.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Shouldn't you be thanking me. :wink: I know it sounds like some stupid myth one might concoct and, actually, in my fuzzy memory, I may have read the story first in a Bub article. I am reasonably sure, however, that I read it in multiple places, too.


Sega is involved in a Simcityesque online title that has been released for a month or so: Legacyonline. It looks incredibly detailed and impressive in the strategery category. I am scared of it as it looks like a big sucker of free time. There's a two week trial period and then 10 bucks a month.

[Murph]

I also tried the demo for Mall Tycoon. Maybe they polished the finished product, but the demo was simply abysmal. Apallingly bad graphics. Poor UI. And it wasn't actually any fun.

No, they didn't polish it at all. My wife and I picked it up because we saw it within weeks of discussing what a great game it could be, before we knew it existed.

If it's not the worst game I've ever touched, it in the running. Top 2 or 3 easy.

It's been on the best-sellers charts lately, and that makes me so sad. Do not touch Mall Tycoon. Not for any reason. "Abysmal" is exactly the word for it.

[Gordon_Bleu]

[quote="Murph"]

Do not touch Mall Tycoon. Not for any reason. "Abysmal" is exactly the word for it.

Or for the pun-inclined, "AbysMALL" would be the word for it. :D

-

[Piemax]

I think Chan's Capitalism/Cap+ game is the best economics-related game so far- it made the most extensive use of economics concepts and was also fun to play, at least for this economist. Depending on the scenario, there were typically a number of different winning strategies. For example, you could try to vertically integrate, controlling everything from mining to stell mills to car production, or play like a mini Hong-Kong and import (purchase) all raw materials, or focus on department stores and marketing. One caution: The game is pretty old, and I havent booted it for a while; I suspect the 2-d map and simple colors will seem dated. OTOH if you can find it it should be really cheap.

[John Merva]

at least for this economist.

Perhaps the crux of the matter.

[Joe O'Malley]

Best Economic/Empire sims:

Railroad Tycoon 2 Platinum
Starships Unlimited: Divided Galaxies
Rollercoaster Tycoon
Patrician II
Port Royale
Caesar III / Pharaoh / etc
Trade Empires

I'm not familiar with Starships Unlimited: Divided Galaxies. How does it play? More of a MOO (one or two), or more of a Star Trek Armada style?

[Shawn Metcalf]

I also tried the demo for Mall Tycoon. Maybe they polished the finished product, but the demo was simply abysmal. Apallingly bad graphics. Poor UI. And it wasn't actually any fun.

No, they didn't polish it at all. My wife and I picked it up because we saw it within weeks of discussing what a great game it could be, before we knew it existed.

If it's not the worst game I've ever touched, it in the running. Top 2 or 3 easy.

It's been on the best-sellers charts lately, and that makes me so sad. Do not touch Mall Tycoon. Not for any reason. "Abysmal" is exactly the word for it.

Is the Dawn of the Dead-inspired zombie scenario any good?

[Tyjenks]

I think Chan's Capitalism/Cap+ game is the best economics-related game so far- it made the most extensive use of economics concepts and was also fun to play, at least for this economist. Depending on the scenario, there were typically a number of different winning strategies. For example, you could try to vertically integrate, controlling everything from mining to stell mills to car production, or play like a mini Hong-Kong and import (purchase) all raw materials, or focus on department stores and marketing. One caution: The game is pretty old, and I havent booted it for a while; I suspect the 2-d map and simple colors will seem dated. OTOH if you can find it it should be really cheap.

I just saw it at Gamestop for $4.99, in fact. I also so Stardock's (GalCiv) The Corporate Machine, which was pretty good, for $1.99. Good thing about loving stratedy/sim titles. The lack of dependency on graphics for fun, limits their shelf life, IMO. So price drops occur a bit quicker.

I went to get Starships Unlimited and both stores no longer carried it and I cannot find it on ebgames.com. Guess I will have to do a web search. No instant gratification here. :(

[SpoofyChop]

Piemax...

Capitalism II sucks. Are you talking about Capitalism II? Because it sucks.

It's incredibly boring and super impossible.

Even on the SLOWEST speed, I was having the demand for food products in my suppermarket changing every two minutes. I was so busy micromanaging the damn price of eggs that I couldn't make any money.

Joe...

Starships Unlimited is quite possibly the most fun 4x space game in the history of the letter x. I don't know if it's like MOO or Star Thing Armadillo because I haven't played those.

But you explore solar systems, you mine planets, you start colonies, you manage fleets of awesome ships of your own design, you beat the pants off of scary aliens and you generally have an awesome time.

Best 4x space game ever.

[Tyjenks]

I also tried the demo for Mall Tycoon. Maybe they polished the finished product, but the demo was simply abysmal. Apallingly bad graphics. Poor UI. And it wasn't actually any fun.

No, they didn't polish it at all. My wife and I picked it up because we saw it within weeks of discussing what a great game it could be, before we knew it existed.

If it's not the worst game I've ever touched, it in the running. Top 2 or 3 easy.

It's been on the best-sellers charts lately, and that makes me so sad. Do not touch Mall Tycoon. Not for any reason. "Abysmal" is exactly the word for it.

The world must not agree with you Murph:

Global Star will release Mall Tycoon 2 for the PC in the fall. The game is in development at Fusion Digital. Global Star plans to incorporate all of the content of the original Mall Tycoon along with new features and various improvements. Mall Tycoon 2 is a business sim that allows players to oversee virtually every aspect of creating and managing a mall. Criterion's Renderware technology will reportedly provide better visual quality than the original release and also allow for a 360-degree rotating camera with multiple zoom levels. Players can also expect new events and a completely redesigned interface as well as more than 70 commodities and 60 shops. Global Star is also promising better AI.

[Piemax]

Piemax...

Capitalism II sucks. Are you talking about Capitalism II? Because it sucks.

Actually I was talking about Cap (the original game) and the fairly similar Cap+, which by coincidence were the games I mentioned. Cap2 struck me as more of the same, so I didn't play it and I have no opinion on either its interest or its difficulty.