Demigod schulde

[Brad Wardell]

And some perspective here:

For me, with a legitimate copy of Demigod purchased through Impulse, Demigod is currently a single-player game. When I start it up, it tells me that I need to update to the latest version. I appear to have the latest version, however, and Impulse refuses to update it. I'm apparently not the only person with this issue.

From what you're saying, this is probably caused by unexpected amounts of load on your servers. Okay, that's fair. But I've still got a single-player game here, that's decidedly lacking in single-player features. You can't even pause!

And if I was writing a review, that's what I'd have to say: While the core gameplay is entertaining, the single-player isn't very fleshed out. Multiplayer doesn't work yet.

So your argument is that we should just not send out review copies of the game so early. I mean that's basically the answer.

I'm a developer, not a reviewer. However, to me, part of the review process should be considering whether a given issue is transient or not. If it's transient, then the issue should be treated carefully. If it's not, then that's a different story.

I remember when Civilization IV shipped it had a problem with ATI cards due to the way it memory mapped its DLL into memory. I suspect any Firaxis developers here remember that.

Anyway, they had the problem solved and updated within a day or two and now few probably remember that. Should the game been marked down for that? I'd say no because that's a transient issue.

Now, next week if we're still talking about massive Demigod connection issues, then clearly it's not a transient issue and the review should pound on the game for that. But it's hard not to be upset that a game, 2 years in the making that is, by all accounts, an outstanding game, is going to be permanently marked down by one of the largest game sites because the connection servers during the first 18 hours of its street date were bogged down.

And it's especially maddening because the reason the connection servers are bogged down is because of the pounding those servers are getting from warez users and that the solution is fairly straight forward: Move the connection server away from anything that's affected by warez users.

[Mordrak]

I'm not playing the game, but does Gamespot update its review score in addition to the review? It does suck because more than likely the review score is permanent and even if it isn't, it's unlikely that places like metacritic will update it. Given that from a practical publisher perspective, it's easy to see that side.

I can also see Gamespot's side, if they publish a review that doesn't reflect the issues, they'll hear it from site users. However, Gamespot has already tarnished their reputation, so I'm not sure what they are saving. It seems like the best solution would have been for Gamespot to contact Stardock about the issues and potentially post pone the review for 24-48 hours. Was a release day review necessary for Gamespot?

It sucks also that much of this problem is caused by pirates and it sucks to have Stardock and the Demigod developer penalized for taking a progressive stance on DRM.

[Riztro]

There´s also the issue of aesthetics in maps, Demigod provides some of the most amazing locales to fight in that I´ve seen, the demigods themselves are nice and all but the maps really builds a large part of the games characther. As intricate as they are I´d rather have official maps only than risk diluting it with the typically random quality of homebrew maps.

As an aside, this being my first post and all. Hello everyone.

[Tom Chick]

That's actually an excellent point Riztro. One of the problems with Supreme Commander was that as soon as you zoomed out, all the game's personality was entirely lost. But for most of the Demigod maps, zooming way out gives it a whole new sense of character!

However, one thing I suspect people might want to do is muck around with, say, the types of flags positioned around the map. For instance, a map with more portals, or with fewer gold mines, or with xp flags on the left and health and mana boosts on the right. Given the other game options you can adjust, I wonder if this is something Gas Powered would eventually let us do?

-Tom

[thinkingork]

I agree quantity of demigods is much more important than quantity of maps.

By map editor, I mean one that you can edit the demigod skills and items.
If there is one, I would make all the demigod with the Rook model. Watching two Rooks fighting is just epic.

[deanco]

Re pausing in-game, Tom is technically right, you have to enable timeouts in the game options, but once that's done, pausing the game blocks you at a menu screen, you can't study the upgrades, browse the shops, etc. What *does* work is setting game speed to variable, then with the '-' button, setting speed to -10. Everyone is in molasses mode, which gives you time to decide what to buy.

Actually, the speed control turned this game around for me. I was like, 'wtf is going on' the first 3 games, the action was a little too fast to really follow. I'm now playing at -3, and the game is a lot more fun as I can see exactly the effects of the spells, have time to click the buttons, etc.

I'll add my personal 'BOO!!' for the lack of a decent manual and in-game tutorial.

DeanCo--

[TurinTur]

There´s also the issue of aesthetics in maps, Demigod provides some of the most amazing locales to fight in that I´ve seen, the demigods themselves are nice and all but the maps really builds a large part of the games characther. As intricate as they are I´d rather have official maps only than risk diluting it with the typically random quality of homebrew maps.

As an aside, this being my first post and all. Hello everyone.

As epic and artistically amazing are the maps, i would liked a bit more of interactiviness and influence of the maps in the gameplay. I mean, if i am fighting above a huge statue floating in the void of space, well, i would like that little weird fact affected the game itself, even if it is a little gimmick in every map. That kind of thing would amplify the sense you are a demigod fighting in an awe-inspiring arena.

[Calistas]

AARG! How does the teleport scroll work?! I click of F1 it and then try clicking on the ground, on the mini map, everywhere, and nothing happens! Arg!

[jellyfish]

F10 and select the button that says "pause game". You might have to enable pausing in the game options menu.

OMG! Thanks. That is a huge relief for me. Before you start the game go to options and set timeouts to infinite. By default it is set to off.

[thinkingork]

Click a building lol.

[Riztro]

However, one thing I suspect people might want to do is muck around with, say, the types of flags positioned around the map. For instance, a map with more portals, or with fewer gold mines, or with xp flags on the left and health and mana boosts on the right. Given the other game options you can adjust, I wonder if this is something Gas Powered would eventually let us do?

That sounds like a cool way to both have my cake and eat it, would certainly be at the very least a concession to those who enjoy tinkering with the maps for variety while maintaining a professional selection of maps. Even better if it´s integrated far enough that no extra-game downloads are necessary.

As epic and artistically amazing are the maps, i would liked a bit more of interactiviness and influence of the maps in the gameplay. I mean, if i am fighting above a huge statue floating in the void of space, well, i would like that little weird fact affected the game itself, even if it is a little gimmick in every map. That kind of thing would amplify the sense you are a demigod fighting in an awe-inspiring arena.

Well, see, I like that the maps are very interchangeable mechanically speaking, it lets me play the maps I find most gorgeous without worrying about the balance of the map. It also aids my sense of scale in the sense that I´m so far below the notice of these beings I might as well be a bug, interesting to watch if you´re encased in a monolithic crystal maybe but not something they would deign to interact with.

Actually, for me this ties back to what Tom said about Supcom, zooming out in supcom gives me a feeling of a strategy map or a boardgame, eminently functional but devoid of personality. Demigod actually gains personality for me the farther I zoom out and realize just how tiny I, a demigod, am in the scheme of things and how far I still have to aspire. Assuming I prove myself.

[Prodigy]

It sucks also that much of this problem is caused by pirates and it sucks to have Stardock and the Demigod developer penalized for taking a progressive stance on DRM.

Do you really think the pirates care ?

[jellyfish]

"It's all the pirates fault" is such a poor excuse and I am sorry to see such an awesome company resorting to such a lame cliche.

[Ben Sones]

Then how is it that I have over 20 multiplayer games under my belt, including LAN and online games? If you're going to review a game's launch day, that's fine. But it's not the same as reviewing a game.

Yeah. For perspective, let's consider World of Warcraft, which was plagued with similar launch issues--widespread network failures that made the game literally unplayable for several days after launch. Blizzard ended up extending everyone's free month, IIRC. Gamespot also held off on posting their review until a week after launch, to see how the network issues shook out. Their review awarded the game a 9.5, and mentioned the network problems, but only as a footnote.

They harshly criticize Demigod for not having a single player campaign/story mode, even though that didn't stop them from loving games like Battlefield 2--or Team Fortress 2, which is even more Spartan than Demigod, and has no single-player mode at all. I know it's different writers and all, but still...

If you look for solace in Demigod's single-player offering, be aware that there is no story campaign to get lost in, only skirmishes and a tournament mode, which is essentially a series of ranked matches against the AI. ... Leaving this rich milieu unexplored by a true narrative is an unfortunate oversight, particularly in a game this light on features.

As a purely multiplayer game, Team Fortress 2 has no need for a storyline. Instead, it has characters.

Network problems or no, my personal feeling is that reviewing a game with a large online component only a day or so after launch is a disservice to your readers. OTOH, it's Gamespot, poster child for everything that's wrong with game journalism today. What do you expect?

[Dreamshadow]

"It's all the pirates fault" is such a poor excuse and I am sorry to see such an awesome company resorting to such a lame cliche.

I disagree. While Brad can give concrete numbers, it is clear by what he's been reporting that their infrastructure has been hammered by multiplayer requests and patch checks from many more copies than is distribution.

I just hope those who pirated the game won't be able to find some way to extract the patches from impulse. They'll get to try their demo and if they want any more maps and demigods, or even just balance fixes, they'll have to purchase this excellent game.

[Morberis]

What have people's experiences been so far after the new patch? I was easily able to enter a few games without difficulty, hopefully not just because it was 6am.

And oh yes, Brad plays a bad ass Oak.

[Cubit]

Cool inside look at Stardock and Demigod w/ Brad as guide. :)

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/903770...y1_041509.html

[Mysterio]

Update v1.00.048 is now available. Previous version was v1.00.0091.

EDIT: Main menu game screen now shows 1.00.0093 in lower-right corner. WTH?

[ckessel]

"It's all the pirates fault" is such a poor excuse and I am sorry to see such an awesome company resorting to such a lame cliche.

Feeling a guilty conscience jellyfish?

Brad has spoken out several times how pirates are irrelevant to deciding what game to build and thus tends to avoid DRM in Stardock games. If he's saying it's pirates, I'd believe him based on his track record.

[Brad Wardell]

The update is out which frees the connectivity server (NAT fascilitator) from servers that are having their resources bogged down by large numbers of unanticipated "users".

[Morberis]

Cool inside look at Stardock and Demigod w/ Brad as guide. :)

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/903770...y1_041509.html

Oh that's cool.

I believe that connection window he said he'd hoped to have out Friday is actually out today.

Patch notes for anyone that's interested.

[Brad Wardell]

You can visit the pirates in their isolated channel now on #demigod on irc.stardock.com. That's where the old connection service puts those who use chat.

[Lorini]

Well I hope that Gamespot or some other big review site will tell the whole story of how Stardock released a game with no DRM, what happened, and how they addressed the pirate issue. I really think there are lessons here for both publishers and consumers.

[peacedog]

They harshly criticize Demigod for not having a single player campaign/story mode, even though that didn't stop them from loving games like Battlefield 2--or Team Fortress 2, which is even more Spartan than Demigod, and has no single-player mode at all. I know it's different writers and all, but still...

It is a glaring inconsistency that I'm sure most of the gaming public will ignore.

And the single player is good; it's not for everyone perhaps. But this is a clever game. It could be better, and I'm sure will be with time (and possibly expansions, and we can debate the merit of that later). The game needs a better manual and maybe a tutorial, but why do people complain about this and ignore the excellent tool tiping? Honestly, good tool tips tend to be more important than a good manual to me. I don't like it but we're past the days of getting a good, thick, meaty manual. It's not cost effective. Further, it is nice not to have to flip to an index and then flip to a page to find something. All items have clear descriptions when moused over. The "victory condition box" gives you a clear and concise explanation of how to win. Skills give you all the relevan information. Health/mana bars should reveal regen rates as well as current/total health (Brad, do pass that along ;) ), but they do give the raw numbers. Mouse over a minion idol and it'll tell you about the minions (put me in the croud asking for a visual indicator suggesting how many are living/not in use). Mouse over a skill or upgrade and see thr effects. Etc, etc, etc. When I'm on the flooglebinder design screen, I need floogebinder info. I like having a civolopaedia, but I prefer the important stuff be immediately available without having to leave the screen. Smart in game help is really important and too often skimped/ignored outright.

What the game *needs* to do is offer meaningful nudges, possibly for first time players. A traditional tutorial is not necessarily the answer (and not necessarily a bad idea either). But it does need to nudge you to (1) Check the tool tips (while that's a pretty common application feature, it's not always obvious what can and can't be moused over) (2) get after whatever the basic goal is. (3) Pay close attention to your demigod.

I love the games visuals but some additional effects might go a long way. Make flags changing hands a little more spectacular visually, so it's easier to notice "oh dear, we lost the flag over there" (the announcer is nice, but I like combining sharp visual and audio queues).

Network problems or no, my personal feeling is that reviewing a game with a large online component only a day or so after launch is a disservice to your readers. OTOH, it's Gamespot, poster child for everything that's wrong with game journalism today. What do you expect?

I think it is a good idea to give a week (or thereabouts) for initial issues to get sorted out. I think it's disingenuous, though I doubt it was done on purpose or out of spite, to do it for some games with significant multiplayer components and not for others. Treat them all the same way, it makes sense.

[Telefrog]

I think it is a good idea to give a week (or thereabouts) for initial issues to get sorted out. I think it's disingenuous, though I doubt it was done on purpose or out of spite, to do it for some games with significant multiplayer components and not for others. Treat them all the same way, it makes sense.

That's asking way too much of Gamespot.

[Dreamshadow]

That's asking way too much of Gamespot.

Especially when getting the first review out can mean a lot in terms of eyes looking at the page.

I do like the new patch. Game boots up a lot faster now, and responds better both in the overlay and in the online portions. Good work all! Now I just need to find an assassin I really like. *sigh* Torchbearer is the only one I can really stand to look at, and who's abilities I like..but his quotes are grating on me in game. Regulus is a close second, but I'm not finding the sweet spot for his stuff on the talent tree.

You know what this means? *evil grin* I play the game even more!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[jeffb]

I dont see the problem with the Gamespot video review, its two main gripes are broken multiplayer and little content for a full price game, both are true.

[John Keefer]

Especially when getting the first review out can mean a lot in terms of eyes looking at the page.

I do like the new patch. Game boots up a lot faster now, and responds better both in the overlay and in the online portions. Good work all! Now I just need to find an assassin I really like. *sigh* Torchbearer is the only one I can really stand to look at, and who's abilities I like..but his quotes are grating on me in game. Regulus is a close second, but I'm not finding the sweet spot for his stuff on the talent tree.

You know what this means? *evil grin* I play the game even more!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

We got our review up yesterday, and I had relatively no issues connecting to multiplayer, as my butt-kicking at the hands of Tom and Troy can attest (in 5 separate matches).

As for characters, I played all eight through a tournament on Normal. Granted the AI is pretty lukewarm there, but it gives you a chance to explore the talent trees and see what works. For Regulus, I invested in Sniper Scope and maim. I also invested in any item that increased mana and weapon damage. His quotes are corny, but I like corn.

I had a hard time with the generals at first until I started buying idols to get me followers (DOH!) the priests add to your longevity as they can heal you if you get into heavy combat.

Finally, as Tom mentioned. invest in two teleport scrolls at all times: One to get off the front lines quick, and the other to get back into it quick.

[TurinTur]

Gamespot has an history of reviewing the launch version found in the shops, and that's it. This is not the first time this issue is discussed, it seems that's why now they have the new "we will update the review if it's needed" feature.

But i half agree with them.
a) There isn't a lof of content in the game. True
b) It's a multiplayer focused game. With a very broken multiplayer system. True.

There is no campaign (and no tutorial). Not enough depth for a sandbox type of game against the AI like Civ. Few arenas. The AI in skirmish is decent but not that good, and i am a first time player, in a week i wil beat the AI with a hand in my back. And the tournament is a wasted opportunity, it's just a series of skirmishes.
In other words, it's clearly a only multiplayer game, even if there is a somwhat functional AI for skirmishes, i would only recommend it for people who play online.

And Tom, you have played 20 games, but not everyone has your router/ISP/system. Other people are having a much more harder time to play with their friends.

[Brad Wardell]

I dont see the problem with the Gamespot video review, its two main gripes are broken multiplayer and little content for a full price game, both are true.

Demigod is $39.95. Most new games are $49.95. :)