Reply With Quote[size=7][color=red]BULL.
SHIT.[/color][/size]
If I could get that to blink I would.
A Troll is someone who speaks non-serious words, but whose words serve as a catalyst for communication... a catalyst for debate.
Cleve Blakemore is a Troll, mostly. He is a very good though not great troll.
Once you put his words through a five or six step process they come out as something you can work with, but that is much less valuable than simply using him as a springboard toward debate of the issues that he provides a framework for.
Its beyond idiocy to say he is detrimental to the board. Lets address a couple "concerns" about Blakemore...
#1: Blakemore incites hatred.
How exactly is Blakemore inciting hatred? How can NON-serious... aka Trolling, words incite anything in a *straightforward* manner?
As I said before, only people insecure about their lack of racism are concerned about Blakemore inciting them to hatred. And its to THOSE VERY PEOPLE that Blakemore is actually the most valuable. If people have issues concerning their state of racism then its a good idea to *explore* those issues. And that is just what Cleve Blakemore actually ACHIEVES. Not inciting hatred but rather *exploring* racism and exploring race.
Never look at what a human SEEMS to be achieving, or seems to be trying to achieve. Look at what he ACTUALLY achieves. Don't be a fucking moron.
#2: Blakemore drives blacks and to a lesser extent other non-whites and non-heterosexuals and non-males off the message board.
If I was black AND I took Blakemore's words seriously I wouldn't be driven off by them, I would attack them.
But again, Trolls by definition are not serious in a straightforward manner so its kind of a moot point.
Ok, enough of that. Here is Blakemore's identity on Qt3...
Trolls are not necessarily people who don't believe what they are saying. But Blakemore understands that he exists in a social context, and in a social context the meaning of your words are not literal, but rather the effect they have IN that social context.
Blakemore doesn't expect to turn us all into a raging mob of nigger haters. And guess what... he doesn't WANT to, either.
Blakemore wants debate. He wants to raise issues concerning race. What comes of that comes of that.
Blakemore believes race and genes are important, that's for sure. So if you really want to destroy Blakemore rather than encourage him you have to destroy the value of genes, or you can do what I propose and encourage him by doing just what he wants us to do, debate the issue of race.
Here is another aspect of Blakemore's identity, and Blakemore's future on Qt3...
Blakemore is about creating space. The macho front is an attempt to intimidate... its not *strictly* a matter of self-parody although that element is present as well.
He wants space to enable himself confidence, and to increase the power of his words.
Once he attains that confidence (or I should say IF he attains it), you'll notice he gets less extreme in his rhetoric. He'll have to DO less in order to achieve the same objective... introducing debate in his issues.
But probably prior to that he'll explore other, more minor issues for him, like physical strength and its importance to the psychological and social condition.
Once of Blakemore's aspects is fear of his surroundings, and he theorizes that physical strength is key to reducing that fear to a manageable level.
I'd like the people here to stop being idiots and to stop misunderstanding Blakemore. Isn't Qt3 about NOT being an idiot?
[size=7][color=red]BULL.
SHIT.[/color][/size]
If I could get that to blink I would.
Thank god for little favors.Originally Posted by Captain Cookiepants
Thanks koontz, that post is like watching gilligan debate the merits of Arnold the pig on Green Acres. So imaginary and off base from the real world, its only worth is in sheer freak value.
Chet
I look at some of the messages and their tone nowadays and think 'this isn't the sort of place I want to be seen hanging out at'.
It's a bit like if you went to a regular bar which was a pretty cool, civilized place that was accepting of anyone who came in. Then a few dickheads come in and decide to turn it into what they want as a bar- an aggressive, abusive place where it just isn't comfortable or pleasant to be. They're trashing the place and a few people think it's pretty funny and join in, others are worried that it will be uncool if they try to stop it so they ignore it and hope things will work out whilst the last group are calling for the cops. What's the best thing to do?
Hope that Cleve calms down? I think people started hoping that years ago on usenet. Fat chance of that happening. His whole persona has been based on his aggressive, bellicose style. He has become a toxic parody. There is an obvious pride that he has in his ability to bait people and then argue with them. Whinging and bitching only fuels this inane idea of his that he is somehow involved in some form of intellectual gladiator combat. The idea that if people just accede to Cleve's wish to be treated as alpha male he will grow up is ludicrous.
I appreciate that Cleve has the ability to communicate his ideas in an entertaining manner but many of his posts are pointless trolls. Noone's mind is going to be changed from any of these posts. There is no reasonable way to discuss the information that he uncovers without prejudice. The posts are pointless in that noone is going to benefit from their existence. His fan club can continue to act as though what he has written is the sort of stuff that everyone talks about and agrees with. His opponents will froth at the mouth and counter-attack. More words are typed for no good reason. And the only thing that has really been done is the chipping away of a little bit more of the dignity of this board.
Myself, I don't want to see any moderation because I think Mark and Tom are too busy to be expected to be dealing with this shit. Anyone else who asks to be a moderator is usually the sort of person I don't want to be a moderator. I'm just going to set my own level of dignity and participate and respond to posts that fall within that range. Cleve's discussion in 28 Days is above my level, Cleve's racist links aren't.
You're kidding, right? This messageboard entitled "Politics and Religion" should really be titled "Politics, Religion, and Cleve Blakemore issues". THIS thread for example is not Politics or Religion... I do believe Mark or Tom moved all Cleve Blakemore threads over to this forum regardless of content (or rather, BECAUSE their content was generated by Cleve Blakemore).
Its obvious that the intention is to create a seperated and therefore controlled environment for Blakemore. Pro-Blakemore issue dealers thus are seperated from the Anti-Blakemore issue dealers.
In other words, Mark and Tom are moderating whether you see it or not.
I posted my message just before Mark moved the messages over. It will be interesting to see if Cleve follows the rules or if he repeats his efforts in the movie thread where his 'review' is a Trojan Horse for one of his rants. It's no fun being a rebellious non-conformist when people take pains to accomodate your differences.
Finally, I would find it very hard to talk about Cleve without talking about the issues that he raises which brings us back to making this thread on topic.
So because you would react one way we should assume everyone would react the same way and not worry about it? Buh?#2: Blakemore drives blacks and to a lesser extent other non-whites and non-heterosexuals and non-males off the message board.
If I was black AND I took Blakemore's words seriously I wouldn't be driven off by them, I would attack them.
You've already talked to me, in person, many times Peter on the job we worked together on. What was my problem? Was I a hater? Or was I somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 times better read, better thought, more experienced and more widely exposed to the realities of the world than probably anybody you've ever known in your entire adult life?
In all honesty, Pete, you don't really think that a guy who has had his ass planted as an animatronic in front of a CRT screen the past ten years could hope to hold a candle to a human being like me, do you? It would be like comparing an animal who has spent his entire life in captivity in a tiny cage with a free roaming Wolverine.
This is pretty much the life story of everybody you know, Pete:
1. Lived with mum n' dad in little middle class house in all-white suburb.
2. Went to college after graduating from higher school, at no time any thought processes actually triggered in brain, no need for them, mostly existed in hallucinogenic fake reality that was combination of old episodes of Gilligan's Island and Star Trek.
3. Graduated with specialist degree in technical skill, majored in marxist brainwashing.
4. Hired out of school where worked at meaningless day job, earning revenues for government as slave in fiat money system, nights occupied by idle chatter about spectator sports, consumer goods and childless random sexual encounters or possible encounters. Life basically like that of main character in Brazil except with less dismal looking buildings.
5. Bought lots of junk promoted in popular culture and lived vicariously through the accounts of the lives of celebrities.
Right?
Now, compare this with my life, Pete. I won't bore you with details, but :
1. Grew up moving weekly in single parent broken home, experienced enormous tragedy and loss before I was even out of high school.
2. After being diagnosed as a savant at 9 years old, spent most of my life completely ignoring educational system and instead teaching myself through a self-imposed regimen of reading 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, for around 20 years.
3. At 22 years, had visited half the nations on Earth in the military and worked beside the other races up close and personal for nearly four years on a daily basis less than inches away.
4. At 24 years old, apparently went through some Bruce Banner type of physical metamorphosis where I went from being a slim, mild mannered intellectual and turned myself (without steroids) into a hellish super-powered comic book character with the strength of ten men.
5. Life from 25 to 30 was just a wee bit short of a full-on John Woo film, with an epic battle in the streets of Los Angeles during the riots with automatic weapons and full roundhouse spinning kicks keeping the Zulu hordes at bay until the National Guard could arrive. This was my final year before migrating to Oz, you see. So while you were laughing yourself silly over Seinfeld at home, masturbating and building your Nintendo Pog collection, I was smashing through the plate glass windows of department stores in stranglehold death locks with these great diversity enrichers you're always telling me I've got it all wrong about. You claim I just don't know what I'm talking about you see, because you just rented the latest Denzel Washington film and were just flabbergasted by the noble spirit of this supernegro and can't see how anybody would ever consider themselves anything but a second class citizen in comparison and how the most wonderful thing that could happen to any of us is to someday get the opportunity to force our girlfriends to fellate one of these fine princes of the universe.
But I'm the one who is just not right in the head, you see. I've got it all wrong. Uh-huh. I'm the one who needs to get hisself more edujmacated.
You know what somebody said to me the other day?
"Your problem is all this independent reading you do. If you were more like other people and just read the books that everybody knows are important and stayed away from books in general, plus you should watch more television, you'd be more like all of us and not so weird. I mean nobody reads nowadays, it's practically antisocial to read. Reading can make a person act really odd so it's their fault if they end up in trouble with the law."
Well, you'd reckon, wouldn't you?
Cleve, do you drive a Taxi?
People with similar bios to Cleve, sadly everyone of these geniuses has been forced to become a cab driver. Society just can't handle these alpha males.
Unemployable Genius
Sam Sloan
Taxi1010
I don't quite understand what creating this new forum is expected to achieve. Cleve and his handful of cohorts are just going to continue to spew the same white-supremacist bile in here; just as soon as he recovers from laughing his head off that he has managed to cause such fervor and disarray that the mods actually went and created an entirely new forum for no other apparent reason than some attempt to contain him and placate his legions of apalled critics. If that's not giving his already comically engorged ego one long, slow, soapy-handed jerk-off, I don't know what is.
So, Cleve will continue to expound at length on his theories about how the noble white man must do something about those cannibal niggaz, but that's okay because now it says POLITICS AND RELIGION at the top of the thread. Brilliant!
Cleve Blakemore, participant in the culture of victimization.Now, compare this with my life, Pete. I won't bore you with details, but:
Oh, Gary, please give it a rest. Your crescendo of high strung girly voice indignation is reaching some kind of hideous nadir of theatrics. Just vacate your house and turn the keys over to some Cubans, I'll put you up for canonization at the Vatican. Such a performance artist. Are you striking your breast with one hand and the other thrown over your brow, tears of pity running down your cheeks for your homeboys-in-abstentia you're trying to defend? Why don't you let them defend themselves? Well, possibly because most of them are still trying to figure out how to turn on the computers they stole during the L.A. riots.
Hey Cleve, you do know that one of the two main heroic characters in 28 DAYS LATER is black, right? Just wanted to point that out before you went and wasted good money on the DVD.
Cleve, I have a question for you:
If it was possible for you to become something greater than your societal stereotype, is the same thing possible for some blacks?
Do you think some of your stronger emotions might be based in the tragedy you felt at such a young age?
Please don't take this as an attack. It's not, I'm just curious.
Let me guess, idiot savant.
Sorry Cleve but I have no recollection of this. Or is this a comment designed to show my ignorance?
Anyway, please note that at no time have I said anything about your intellect or education. My major beef is that you are unnecessarily belligerent and that you post topics which demean the general nature of these boards. You can do your kung fu hockey sockey flying kicks as much as you want in a riot and get away with it. Try it in a mall on a quiet sunday morning and see how far you get. Likewise, you can post whatever you want on usenet and not worry about what it does to usenet. It's a bit different here though. I don't think this board can take daily posts on race and not suffer from it. You can continue pressure testing this board but in the long run noone will end up participating simply because everyone will ignore you. That doesn't mean that you win in a bizarre King of the Hill way either. It means you miss out on communicating with a bunch of bright and pretty funny people. Your choice.
Alternatively, it will mean that a bunch of bright and pretty funny people, whose discussions I enjoy, will miss out on communicating with each other.
I assumed you're the Peter Frazier at Fujitsu in Brisbane I worked with who was constantly surfing QT3. Am I wrong? I had assumed this for months.Sorry Cleve but I have no recollection of this. Or is this a comment designed to show my ignorance?
Anyway, please note that at no time have I said anything about your intellect or education. My major beef is that you are unnecessarily belligerent and that you post topics which demean the general nature of these boards. You can do your kung fu hockey sockey flying kicks as much as you want in a riot and get away with it. Try it in a mall on a quiet sunday morning and see how far you get. Likewise, you can post whatever you want on usenet and not worry about what it does to usenet. It's a bit different here though. I don't think this board can take daily posts on race and not suffer from it. You can continue pressure testing this board but in the long run noone will end up participating simply because everyone will ignore you. That doesn't mean that you win in a bizarre King of the Hill way either. It means you miss out on communicating with a bunch of bright and pretty funny people. Your choice.
In my next post, I was going to ask you what you thought of me after you and Gray spent 6 months laughing at my wild tales of coming Islamic Terrorism that would change the face of the West and how they would very shortly destroy either the Statue of Liberty, World Trade Center or Empire State Building. Followed by wars of aggression in the Middle East against the wrong targets ala Robert A. Heinlein because the U.S. would be unable to identify the people responsible for the actual terrorism. I was going to ask you what you thought of me when 8 months after I left, everything came to pass nearly identical to the way I predicted it. I thought you were this guy who used to shake his head in stunned astonishment at these wild outlandish fantasies.
If your name is Peter Frazier and you do work at Fujitsu in Brisbane and you don't remember me, doesn't this just demonstrate that you are completely out in space?
Of course - some of them fall on the right half of the Bell Curve almost into the same range needed to live outside a cage. How does that help with 70 million natural born civilization destroyers who could not be changed by cradle-to-grave management, the best environment and nutrition money could possibly buy, assuming money just started pouring out of a black hole from another universe?
Oprah says this is a bad thing, right? Convictions are evil and caused by too much in-depth reading. That's why Oprah runs her own book club to carefully recommend people towards harmless titles about women in the 16th century agony-torn over their desire to wear a blue frock in public. Oprah recommends if you ever feel any strong emotions coming on, you should call her 800 toll free number and speak to a counselor about purchasing some useful consumer goods to take your mind off it.
Soma! Orgy-porgy! Keep them tax revenues rollin' in and don't worry, be happy!
Two points...
#1: The very next line reads "But again, Trolls by definition are not serious in a straightforward manner so its kind of a moot point."
I don't treat Blakemore's words like I treat Case's words on hardware... that is, entirely straightforwardly.
I put the words on a sieve. The crap drains away leaves a kernel of quality. There is often *something* there of value, which is more than can be said for many posters on this forum.
Compare that to how many other posters treat Cleve's words, which to to accept the crap with the quality, and since the crap outweighs the quality they complain about the crap!
Use the sieve, people... use THE SIEVE!
I don't personally think that very many people process words as effectively as I do, but I don't think anyone treats Blakemore's words straightforwardly. I don't think anyone on this board says "Oh my God, some silly rhetoric from Blakemore is so damn influential! I'm hypotized. I am now a Zombie Horde member out to kill the blackies!"
And frankly, if anyone is THAT stupid then I kind of hope Blakemore influences them in that way. Kind of like a Darwinian removal from society kind of thing.
#2: I am aware that I have more weapons to counter attacks than most people and that its possible that Blakemore will drive away individuals. I have this reply...
Anyone who is driven away by a Troll is someone unlikely to be worthy of being in Qt3 anyway. In all my time on forums I don't recall a single instance of a particularly valuable poster driven away by a (single) Troll. Now, if a Troll leads to a degradation of quality of the messageboard that's a different, and considerably more serious issue.
As for that "considerably more serious issue", I will continue to encourage a wise treatment of Blakemore (which by necessity results from *understanding* Blakemore). If people get stupid about Blakemore and take offense to his words then that's their fault, not Blakemore's.
When the time comes when Blakemore's issues are dealt with (if the time comes, not a lot has happened so far), he'll either have to create some new issues or he'll have to adopt an altered persona, OR if he continues trolling at that point the trolling will be useless and action can be taken against him.
If you really want to destroy Blakemore's persona, then attack his issues. Destroy the value of genes OR promote non-caucasian genes. Promote culture as what creates human identity. Mock the vanity of bodybuilding, as I already did on this forum.
Given some of the butt-stupid things that people sometimes talk about here, debates on genetics, culture, and the sociological implications of bodybuilding can't really be considered a bad thing.
We just wanted to move political and religious topics out of the catch-all Everything Else category. If people get offended by this stuff it's easier to skip it now.
Sorry man, I've never been to Brisbane. 5 years at Walgett teaching in a screwed up aboriginal community is the furthest north I've ever ventured.
It scares me that I have a clone up north. If we touch, will there be an explosion that ends the universe ala antimatter?
Anyway, you now have permission to stop pulling punches if you were doing it for the sake of friendship. :wink:
Oh, and Peter, if you're reading this; get back to work you friggin slacker!
I used the sieve on this entire thread. Why do you people insist on feeding his ego? Whether it's good or bad, the relentless focus on his presence and passion you display for his content reveals a subconcious attarction for Cleve and his ramblings. This process remains irrevocably, irrelevant.
^Somebody tell me why the above post looks wrong (and I'm looking at you, Tom and Mark! :lol: )
Mark/Tom so you didn't have to dig up the settings in c ase you forgot, I adjusted them to be like the other forums. If you want to set them back -it is admin/forums/permissions.
Chet
Have I been banned?
I used the sieve on this entire thread. Why do you people insist on feeding his ego? Whether it's good or bad, the relentless focus on his presence and passion you display for his content reveals a subconcious attarction for Cleve and his ramblings. This process remains irrevocably, irrelevant.
that's me. Please give credit where credit is due.[/quote]
[/quote]
I must be missing something. I thought you had to register to post, and therefore no Guests could post.
That is what we have been trying to tell you.
Chet
HEY! we can say BANNED again !! Just as I was getting used to the humor in word replacement.
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