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Thread: Assassin's Creed for the pc

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt View Post
    err... blocked at work. What is it?
    Some would-be cracker boo-hooing about how he can't make the PC version work just by copying the 360 data files over, and ranting about how this is poor engine design or something.

  2. #182
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    That cracker whining is quite the thing to read. Quoted for those behind a barrier...

    Short version: It doesn't work. The X360 files can not be fixed to work on the PC.

    Long version: Those who want to know why it doesn't work, read on.

    OK... so it is as I feared. As we all know, the PC version is the Director's Cut, and it has several new mission types. I was hoping the guys at Ubisoft added these NOT in the specific .forge level files, but in an external file that is accessed for mission generation.

    It is not so.

    The programmers at Ubisoft, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that this is not the way they want to code their engine. They do not want to reuse code and resources or, God forbid, make it easier for themselves when the time comes to support this game and patch it. They refuse to design their engine along industry lines and have universal resource packs and only changing assemblies for platform deployment (the way UE3.0, Viscous Engine and Vision Engine do it). No. they lump it all together and make life harder for themselves for absolutely no reason. As a side effect, it screws our idea of replacing the two faulty files (the Jerusalem and Arsuf .forge files) with the ones from the X360 version.

    The whole .forge format is ridiculously stupid. I've been reading most of them during the last several hours, and they just throw everything they're fucking able into it. Get a hex editor and open, for instance, the Damascus .forge file. The format is pretty simple:

    1. scimitar string
    2. zeroed bytes
    3. hashed header
    4. zeroed bytes
    5. real header (contains a list of resources in the file)
    6. zeroed bytes
    7+ definitions of the resources separated by zeroed bytes

    The point is, they put everything in these .forge files. The Damascus file alone has diffuse textures, alpha maps, cube maps, code blocks, material properties, mocap data, _foliage_ entity descriptors... you name it, they've put it in there. The format is basically a wrapper for anything they desire, which goes contrary to pretty much every game engine design concept I know of.

    This also means that the mission subroutines are also in the .forge files (search for "quest" in the Damascus .forge file and you'll see the datablocks that hold the code). And so the PC-specific missions are also in there. And the X360 .forge files do not have these extra missions, so when we try replace the corrupt files with them, the exe basically crashes with "unresolved external symbol" errors (you can't see these without a debugger) because it can't find those code blocks.

    Point being, our lovely idea of swapping the corrupted files with the X360 ones fails. It really should have worked, and it would have had the Scimitar Engine been designed like every other modern engine today.

    In case you're wondering, this poor design is also the cause of the 2GB RAM minimum requirements, and 3GB for the recommended: the WHOLE .forge file needs to be loaded into memory if they want to use anything in it, they can't just load the parts they need (which is the sensible, rational and common way of doing it) because it's all one big file. You need the DataPC file in memory (200MB), the sounds .forge files (600 MB combined), and whatever level file you are in currently (usually around 700MB). For instance, wherever you are in the game, the game has loaded ALL of the sounds from ALL of the levels, even if you're in the main menu.

    That's the single most retarded idea I have ever seen in engine design.

    Bottom line, until we get a PROPER with the uncorrupted Jerusalem and Arsuf files, the game will crash upon entering Jerusalem no matter what kind of crack you try to use.
    Oh: Charles. Any clue whatsoever who leaked it?

    EDIT: That you can share, obv.

    KG
    Last edited by KieronGillen; 03-03-2008 at 08:18 AM.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by KieronGillen View Post
    That cracker whining is quite the thing to read. Quoted for those behind a barrier...



    Oh: Charles. Any clue whatsoever who leaked it?

    EDIT: That you can share, obv.

    KG
    Personal opinion, not the opinion of ubisoft etc etc.

    It was a journalist. That's all I know. I assume Ubi will probably keep quiet about the specific details and deal directly with whoever employs him/her. As much as I'd love to see the person strung up and made example of, I doubt it will happen. I would expect, however, that said person will have trouble finding a new job.

  4. #184
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    In case you're wondering, this poor design is also the cause of the 2GB RAM minimum requirements, and 3GB for the recommended: the WHOLE .forge file needs to be loaded into memory if they want to use anything in it, they can't just load the parts they need (which is the sensible, rational and common way of doing it) because it's all one big file. You need the DataPC file in memory (200MB), the sounds .forge files (600 MB combined), and whatever level file you are in currently (usually around 700MB). For instance, wherever you are in the game, the game has loaded ALL of the sounds from ALL of the levels, even if you're in the main menu.

    That's the single most retarded idea I have ever seen in engine design.
    If that is true it's not whining of a noob but indeed something utterly retarded from those responsible for the code transfer to the PC.
    No wonder about the system requirements.
    I see why you want to hold everything in memory to avoid load times but other games like Titan Quest managed to do it without having such resource needs. How on Earth can you think that this game will sell well? I have the feeling sometimes developers / publishers want to kill PC gaming intentionally...

    Apart from the question if pirates are dickheads or not:
    The idea to use 360 versions of the maps that are "corrupted" (probably intended to limit the press version) is a clever one and could have worked.

  5. #185
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    It's just lovely how he rants about Ubi coders not operating in the easier way for him being able to put his "skills" (cut and paste, warez edition) on practice.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder View Post
    If that is true it's not whining of a noob but indeed something utterly retarded from those responsible for the code transfer to the PC.
    No wonder about the system requirements.
    I see why you want to hold everything in memory to avoid load times but other games like Titan Quest managed to do it without having such resource needs. How on Earth can you think that this game will sell well? I have the feeling sometimes developers / publishers want to kill PC gaming intentionally...
    It's an unwarranted assumption about the engine though, and one that seems unlikely since it obviously works well enough on the even more memory-restricted 360 (I don't imagine the new mission types make those .forge files *that* much bigger). Half-Life 2 worked well enough on my old system despite having 2 gigs worth of data in big, flat files because the developers weren't stupid.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder View Post
    If that is true it's not whining of a noob but indeed something utterly retarded from those responsible for the code transfer to the PC.
    No, it's just whining.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder View Post
    If that is true it's not whining of a noob but indeed something utterly retarded from those responsible for the code transfer to the PC.
    No wonder about the system requirements.
    I see why you want to hold everything in memory to avoid load times but other games like Titan Quest managed to do it without having such resource needs. How on Earth can you think that this game will sell well? I have the feeling sometimes developers / publishers want to kill PC gaming intentionally...

    Apart from the question if pirates are dickheads or not:
    The idea to use 360 versions of the maps that are "corrupted" (probably intended to limit the press version) is a clever one and could have worked.
    The game is built to stream, so I'm going to go ahead and say he's wrong, without actually knowing how the port worked. Cause, you might remember, the platforms it was made for only had 512mb of ram.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by NowhereDan View Post
    I hope they nail the hell out of whoever leaked the press build. It's crap like this that makes it impossible to get publishers to send me hands-on builds, which means I have to travel to play just a few hours of a game for a preview rather than getting to play thoroughly and at my leisure.
    Well, damn those pirates! Making you travel to play a game instead of allowing you to have great times on your own! :)

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsWill View Post
    Well, damn those pirates! Making you travel to play a game instead of allowing you to have great times on your own! :)
    Actually this is a bad thing.
    See, if you (as a gaming journalist) are forced to travel to the developer's lair/location to try out their new game instead of doing it at your home or office, the devs can pur their stuff on a super-tweaked out machine that is not your typical gaming rig. (see also Crysis in very high mode)
    Seeing the game in all its' glory in a carefully controlled environment is much different than seeing it work, or not, on your machine at home, or at work.

    GFW made a point of not sending anyone to see some "super game" that came out last year or the year before to the point of not getting a "world exclusive first look". Said game wound up on the cover of PC Gamer with the "world exclusive first look" tag.


    Wonder if the idiot that leaked this still thinks it was worth his job?
    Guessing he's now asking if "you want fries with that?".

  11. #191
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    Clearly, being a games journalist, I've no money to bet, but if I did, I'll bet it being someone on a relatively minor site. And probably new. And definitely sacked.

    (Re: Traveling to see game. Three days out of a magazine schedule to spent three hours tops playing a game when you could just get mailed code to spend all that time nosing at is just a waste of time. I understand entirely why developers and publishers do it - both because of shit like this and the desire to control the hardware - but it's still dead time which a magazine would rather not spend.)

    KG

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by KieronGillen View Post
    Clearly, being a games journalist, I've no money to bet, but if I did, I'll bet it being someone on a relatively minor site. And probably new. And definitely sacked.
    Ubisoft is generally pretty reticent when it comes to review copies, so I doubt it's a really tiny place. That being said, new employee seems like a lock.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Ubisoft is generally pretty reticent when it comes to review copies, so I doubt it's a really tiny place. That being said, new employee seems like a lock.
    I could totally see the new guy getting the "console port" to preview.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Ubisoft is generally pretty reticent when it comes to review copies, so I doubt it's a really tiny place.
    Yeah, point.

    I'm always amazed when something like this happens*, just because the idea of anyone spending their time to make a bittorrent and distribute it whatever is plain perverse. As if anyone has the time to do something that pointless and self-destructive.

    Interesting to see what I hear down the grapevine.

    KG

    *Not that it happens. I can't remember the last time a leak was traced to a preview/review copy. It's normally from other sources.

  15. #195
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    I can only imagine that it was someone completely new to the industry, and not very intelligent, who couldn't even have been bothered to imagine that there might be some way of tracking it. I find it funny that in this day and age, there are people involved in tech who haven't heard of watermarks.

    But then again, I guess this is a great example for continued use of watermarks.

  16. #196
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    Yeah. The only alternative is someone who is really, genuinely, sociopathically pissed off and wanted to cause some trouble for their company before getting sacked.

    EDIT: Who was also fucking dense.

    KG
    Last edited by KieronGillen; 03-03-2008 at 01:38 PM.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by KieronGillen View Post
    I'm always amazed when something like this happens*, just because the idea of anyone spending their time to make a bittorrent and distribute it whatever is plain perverse. As if anyone has the time to do something that pointless and self-destructive.
    Whoever is distributing it is hardly the same guy as the leak. The game got into the hands of one of the pirate scene release groups and they have a dedicated network for distributing stuff like this.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by KieronGillen View Post
    Re: Traveling to see game. Three days out of a magazine schedule to spent three hours tops playing a game when you could just get mailed code to spend all that time nosing at is just a waste of time. I understand entirely why developers and publishers do it - both because of shit like this and the desire to control the hardware - but it's still dead time which a magazine would rather not spend.
    Thank you for stating that better than I did - by "at my leisure" I meant "when my schedule permits." If I have to get on a plane and fly out somewhere for a three or four hour meeting to play a game for preview, I've spent about 24-36 hours in order to get that three or four hours of play time. If they send me the build, I can spend eight hours with the game and write my story before I'd even have gotten back from that trip.

  19. #199
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    Kalle: Well, yeah. But the idea of getting in touch of them still sounds like a lot of work.

    KG

  20. #200
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    My understanding is that online sites have not yet been sent preview code, so any thoughts that some C-level website received this and then leaked it seem remote to me.

    Put me on the bandwagon of people who dislikes traveling for previews. I can understand if you're hesitant to put code out into the world and would rather have a press event where you're in more control, but sometimes it's just pointless. For instance, there's a big publisher right now who's talking about having a major press event 8000 miles away in f***ing Moscow, when I could get in my car and drive 30 miles to visit the actual developer. The idea that I might have to lose an editor for 3-4 days to get a few hours of playtime and a few interviews drives me nuts.

  21. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by KieronGillen View Post
    Yeah. The only alternative is someone who is really, genuinely, sociopathically pissed off and wanted to cause some trouble for their company before getting sacked.
    No, no, no. He's a JOURNALIST, which means getting information to the people, and if The Man won't let you send this information to the people directly, by gum, you use subterfuge. And then write an article about how you're sticking it to The Man.

    And when The Man pulls ads and refuses to ever give you preview copies again, well, hey, guess who just built indie cred for sticking up to a big publisher?

  22. #202
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    Christ. For such an uber hacker, it's strange he hasn't heard of seeking in a file.

  23. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalle View Post
    Whoever is distributing it is hardly the same guy as the leak. The game got into the hands of one of the pirate scene release groups and they have a dedicated network for distributing stuff like this.

    You think they'd at least try playing the game through to see if their cracks work or not, before the release them, but I guess it's all about some sort of 'prestige' to be able to release a cracked game before anyone else.

    Not sure what sort of 'prestige' this would be since they're all a faceless/nameless lot but there you go.

  24. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlsuth View Post
    You think they'd at least try playing the game through to see if their cracks work or not, before the release them, but I guess it's all about some sort of 'prestige' to be able to release a cracked game before anyone else.

    Not sure what sort of 'prestige' this would be since they're all a faceless/nameless lot but there you go.
    Well, I expect they have some idea who the other crackers are. At least in a screen name sort of way.

  25. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggo View Post
    For instance, there's a big publisher right now who's talking about having a major press event 8000 miles away in f***ing Moscow, when I could get in my car and drive 30 miles to visit the actual developer. The idea that I might have to lose an editor for 3-4 days to get a few hours of playtime and a few interviews drives me nuts.
    Haha, I know exactly what trip you're talking about. I was just bitching to this same publisher about how Moscow has crazy expensive flights and hotels, so this trip would both eat up a lot of manhours, and be a significant hit on a T&E budget.

  26. #206
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    err.. Anyone know if Assassin's Creed will be available via steam or similar DD service?

  27. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt View Post
    err.. Anyone know if Assassin's Creed will be available via steam or similar DD service?
    I'm pretty sure that Ubisoft presently has no games available on Steam, so I'd be surprised if AC were made available.

  28. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Merritt View Post
    err.. Anyone know if Assassin's Creed will be available via steam or similar DD service?
    Sure, it's printed to a disc in a digital format, and then delivered to your nearest store!

  29. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotthal View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Ubisoft presently has no games available on Steam, so I'd be surprised if AC were made available.
    They only have one title there: Dark Messiah of Might & Magic.

  30. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotthal View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Ubisoft presently has no games available on Steam, so I'd be surprised if AC were made available.
    They have one
    http://www.steampowered.com/v/index....pId=2100&cc=US

    They also have a bunch of games on Direct2drive

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Sure, it's printed to a disc in a digital format, and then delivered to your nearest store!
    Ha ha.. Well I'm spending a year buying only games via Digital Downloads (yeah I have broken it for Target clearance sales)

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